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Old 11-23-2011, 03:47 PM   #1
subi-blue
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Default What wide band O2 sensors work with Romraider?

What wideband O2 sensors work witb RomRaider? How does the data from the sensor get logged by RomRaider?
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Old 11-23-2011, 04:59 PM   #2
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Old 11-27-2011, 02:40 PM   #3
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Inside romraider, it will give you the options of o2 it can hook up to. I used the Innovate.
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Old 11-27-2011, 07:05 PM   #4
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AEM uego is the best in my opinion. Ive had mine two years with 0 problems and I bought it used.
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Old 11-30-2011, 03:34 AM   #5
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I've had good results with a PLX SM-AFR.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:50 AM   #6
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I've heard good things about AEM. Personally I use the LC-1 and have had 0 issues, but others seem to have problems logging/calibrating them
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Old 11-30-2011, 01:23 PM   #7
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AEM uego, no calibration. Install and forget...
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:49 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
I've had good results with a PLX SM-AFR.
Homemade cable still working out for you?
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:11 PM   #9
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I have had an LC-1 on both of my Subarus for going on 4 years now. Only thing I ever have to do is a free air calibration once in a while. They work perfectly with romraider.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subian View Post
Homemade cable still working out for you?
Yep, no issues with that either.

EDIT: if anyone else wants to build one, the details are here: http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4299

Last edited by NSFW; 12-02-2011 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 12-03-2011, 01:00 AM   #11
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Ran LC-1s and an AEM UEGO, both hook up to log perfectly, preference for me is AEM
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:36 PM   #12
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how much would i be looking at for a uego? i prefer AEM myself but I'm almost broke, working on a set up for next drag season. If anyone knows where or how to get one pretty cheap like maybe 100 bucks it'd be a lot of help.
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Old 10-15-2012, 06:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjdonovan
how much would i be looking at for a uego? i prefer AEM myself but I'm almost broke, working on a set up for next drag season. If anyone knows where or how to get one pretty cheap like maybe 100 bucks it'd be a lot of help.
Dude... Really?
If you're nearly broke, maybe you should consider NOT buying parts for your car.
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Old 10-18-2012, 05:05 PM   #14
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I'm using a Motec PLM wired and switched into the gas gauge signal. This is the most accurate and responsive wideband I've owned so far. I've tried PLX and an LC-1. I'm using lambda instead of Air/Fuel ratios, which is far more realistic.
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Old 10-28-2012, 02:57 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjdonovan View Post
how much would i be looking at for a uego? i prefer AEM myself but I'm almost broke, working on a set up for next drag season. If anyone knows where or how to get one pretty cheap like maybe 100 bucks it'd be a lot of help.
a complete kit will be extremely hard to find for $100 even if its used. Ebay has a kit listed for like $159 shipped.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:41 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by DaRealGMan View Post
I'm using a Motec PLM wired and switched into the gas gauge signal. This is the most accurate and responsive wideband I've owned so far. I've tried PLX and an LC-1. I'm using lambda instead of Air/Fuel ratios, which is far more realistic.
Why do you think reading lambda is far better than AFR?
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:42 PM   #17
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Why do you think reading lambda is far better than AFR?
Which gauges have both labmda and AFR reading capabilities? Thanks
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Old 07-07-2013, 02:03 PM   #18
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Why do you think reading lambda is far better than AFR?
It's not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apsx2010 View Post
Which gauges have both labmda and AFR reading capabilities? Thanks
Divide AFR by 14.7 and presto, you have lambda.
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Old 07-07-2013, 07:12 PM   #19
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Which gauges have both labmda and AFR reading capabilities? Thanks
The AEM has a rotary switch on the back... One setting (P1) shows lambda.
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apsx2010 View Post
Why do you think reading lambda is far better than AFR?
Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
It's not.


Lol, I've had this conversation before. Because stoich changes with Ethanol blends, even within gasoline (especially when you go from E85 to E70 to E60, ect..) you can get confused very easily. So that whole idea of 14.7 being stoich goes out the window. When you think in lambda, it's always the same, 1.

Either way is better
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:08 PM   #21
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Lol, I've had this conversation before. Because stoich changes with Ethanol blends, even within gasoline (especially when you go from E85 to E70 to E60, ect..) you can get confused very easily. So that whole idea of 14.7 being stoich goes out the window. When you think in lambda, it's always the same, 1.

Either way is better
Except that ALL widebands measure lambda, they don't measure AFR. The controller converts from lambda to AFR by multiplying by whatever stoich you tell it, usually 14.7. So logging lambda vs logging AFR and dividing by 14.7 will give you identical results. There is nothing better about a wideband that reports lambda versus one that reports in "gas AFR", they're both giving you the exact same information. Like a boost gauge that reads in psi versus bar, the only difference is a scale factor that you multiply by.

While reading in lambda is technically more correct because of changing stoich, etc., working in "gas AFR" can be significantly easier, since that's what RomRaider, ECUFlash, and ATR show your OL fueling map in, and that's what most widebands read in. If you log in lambda, you're just going to have to multiply by 14.7 anyway to compare to the OL fueling map, regardless of what fuel you're using or what its stoich is.

Last edited by the suicidal eggroll; 07-09-2013 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:55 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
Except that ALL widebands measure lambda, they don't measure AFR. The controller converts from lambda to AFR by multiplying by whatever stoich you tell it, usually 14.7. So logging lambda vs logging AFR and dividing by 14.7 will give you identical results. There is nothing better about a wideband that reports lambda versus one that reports in "gas AFR", they're both giving you the exact same information. Like a boost gauge that reads in psi versus bar, the only difference is a scale factor that you multiply by.

While reading in lambda is technically more correct because of changing stoich, etc., working in "gas AFR" can be significantly easier, since that's what RomRaider, ECUFlash, and ATR show your OL fueling map in, and that's what most widebands read in. If you log in lambda, you're just going to have to multiply by 14.7 anyway to compare to the OL fueling map, regardless of what fuel you're using or what its stoich is.

Yep, I understand that and absolutely agree. That is what I do because it's easy

Just a noob point that I ran across and have seen before: If you force open loop and try to tune/scale for stoich of "14.7" on your own (which may or may not be stoich) then you're screwed. Once you put the ECU back in CL your fuel trims are out of whack.

If you tune in closed loop (while watching corrections) you're fine, it'll try to hold stoich for you.
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:19 AM   #23
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If you force open loop and try to tune/scale for stoich of "14.7" on your own (which may or may not be stoich) then you're screwed. Once you put the ECU back in CL your fuel trims are out of whack.
I'm not sure what you mean. You can't aim for any AFR, because the only reference you have is the O2 sensor (stock or aftermarket), which reads in lambda. Even if you think you're targetting a fixed AFR, you're actually targetting a fixed lambda*14.7, since that's what the OL fueling table is showing you and that's what the O2 (stock or aftermarket) is reading in. I force open loop for my fuel tuning all the time, whether I'm on gas or E85, it doesn't make a difference. In the fueling tables and in the O2, 14.7 = stoich, regardless of what fuel you're using.

Of course if you don't know that the O2 is actually reading lambda, then that could cause a problem. Trying to tune an E85 setup so that the wideband (which is showing you gas-AFR) is reading 9.8 at idle and 7.6 at WOT is going to be very frustrating...

Last edited by the suicidal eggroll; 07-10-2013 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:46 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
I'm not sure what you mean. You can't aim for any AFR, because the only reference you have is the O2 sensor (stock or aftermarket), which reads in lambda. Even if you think you're targetting a fixed AFR, you're actually targetting a fixed lambda*14.7, since that's what the OL fueling table is showing you and that's what the O2 (stock or aftermarket) is reading in. I force open loop for my fuel tuning all the time, whether I'm on gas or E85, it doesn't make a difference. In the fueling tables and in the O2, 14.7 = stoich, regardless of what fuel you're using.

Of course if you don't know that the O2 is actually reading lambda, then that could cause a problem. Trying to tune an E85 setup so that the wideband (which is showing you gas-AFR) is reading 9.8 at idle and 7.6 at WOT is going to be very frustrating...
There was something not right about my CL corrections back then or I wasn't understanding fully (likely). I'd force OL and at idle have 14.7, then go to CL and it'll say I'm x.xx% lean with the same value I had in OL. I've moved on to a different way so I'll chalk it up to I wasn't understanding what you mentioned in your first paragraph when I was tuning back then.

I did that one time without changing my LC-1 to Ethanol-AFR and couldn't figure out why it ran so bad until I smelled E85 horribly at idle, then it hit me lol.
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:10 PM   #25
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All I know is, there is no professional race engine builder, pro meaning (former)Champ car, Indy car, NASCAR, that reads in Air Fuel ratio. They all read lambda. I know this because I work and have worked for all of the above in engine development.

Either which way, whether you decide to convert to a 100% gasoline stoich of 14.7 or assume it's close, it's the controller that operates the lambda sensor that makes the most difference in the world. The only truly accurate brands are Motec and ECM. There have been numerous wideband tests online. Most use the same Bosch LSU 4.2 sensor. NASCAR uses the LSU 4.9 specifically on their Mclaren Fuel Injection systems. ECM only uses high-end laboratory grade NTK 6ma sensors. The Motec systems can use any of the above.
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