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Old 10-30-2012, 09:13 PM   #2276
cny12owner
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Guess it's time for another update. Roughly 9500 miles on my '12 with the CVT, average MPG is just under 28. Short drive to work is partly to blame, only 8 miles one way. Been putting a decent amount of highway miles on the car this summer/fall, but that will slow down soon with winter approaching (I tend to not take long trips in the winter, but that may change with the AWD, lolol...). Guessing that my MPG will take a hit. But no complaints, especially considering the AWD.
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:56 PM   #2277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lymphomaniac View Post
Working with metric here (although I'll include non-metric figures in parentheses, for those of you south of the 49th).

My car is still in its breaking-in period, I would say 95+% of my driving is in craptastic city driving - ie. never-ending traffic jam. I got the car just over 2 weeks ago, commuting about 50-60km per work day and getting a bit of personal driving in on the weekends. Piss poor weather lately has prevented me from doing much night driving.

Distance travelled to date is about 804km (approx 500 miles), already had two fuel-ups.

First: 41.998 litres (just over 11 US gallons) for 407.2km distance travelled (approx 253 miles), 10.314 l/100km (22.81 MPG); meter reading was 10.8 l/100km (21.78 MPG)

Second: 41.605 litres (just over 11 US gallons) for 396.8km distance travelled (approx 247 miles), 10.485 l/100km (22.43 MPG); meter reading was 9.6 l/100km (24.5 MPG)

Average over two fuel-ups: 83.603 litres (just over 22 US gallons) for 804.0 km travelled (500 miles), 10.398 l/100km (22.62 MPG).

Summary: fuel consumption seems a little high based on initial calculations, but I'm hoping this is just a break-in period thing. Of course, a lot of that also has to do with the crummy traffic situation where I'm at.

Interesting that the first fuel-up resulted in a pessimistic meter reading, while the 2nd fuel-up showed over-optimistic (ie. under-estimated) fuel consumption on the meter.
3rd fuel-up:

Distance travelled to date - 1200.2 km (approx 746 miles)
40.564 litres (10.72 US gallons) for 396.2 km (246 miles), 10.238 l/100km (22.97 MPG). Meter reading was 9.6 l/100km (24.5 MPG)
Average over three fuel-ups: 124.167 litres (32.8 US gallons) for 1200.2 km travelled (746 miles) = 10.346 l/100km (22.74 MPG)

Again, about 95+% in craptastic city traffic.

On the bright side, almost done with the break-in period.
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:31 AM   #2278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lymphomaniac View Post
3rd fuel-up:

Distance travelled to date - 1200.2 km (approx 746 miles)
40.564 litres (10.72 US gallons) for 396.2 km (246 miles), 10.238 l/100km (22.97 MPG). Meter reading was 9.6 l/100km (24.5 MPG)
Average over three fuel-ups: 124.167 litres (32.8 US gallons) for 1200.2 km travelled (746 miles) = 10.346 l/100km (22.74 MPG)

Again, about 95+% in craptastic city traffic.

On the bright side, almost done with the break-in period.
Don't want to be Mr. Storm Cloud, but my mileage didn't show a sharp improvement, 4-5 mpg, until my first oil change at 3750 miles (6035 km!). I guess that is when my own break-in period ended.

I now have about 11000 miles. Even driving around in Sandy's wind and rain this weekend I got about 30 mpg (you do the conversion, l/100km hurts my brain).
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:21 AM   #2279
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MPG's will probably go down over the winter, not up, even after you get to 1,000 miles on the odometer.

The real test will be in the spring when the fuel blends change. But for City driving exclusively expect between 20-25mpg and probably not much better.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:16 AM   #2280
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Glad I didn't buy that 2013 Hyundai Elantra GT because of the gas mileage!!

https://hyundaimpginfo.com/overview/affected-models
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:06 AM   #2281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
MPG's will probably go down over the winter, not up, even after you get to 1,000 miles on the odometer.

The real test will be in the spring when the fuel blends change. But for City driving exclusively expect between 20-25mpg and probably not much better.
At this stage, I'm not overly concerned about fuel consumption stats - I'm more just logging it as a point of reference for later on.

As for getting to 1000 miles... I can't wait to be done with this "break-in driving".
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:36 AM   #2282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladeef
Glad I didn't buy that 2013 Hyundai Elantra GT because of the gas mileage!!

https://hyundaimpginfo.com/overview/affected-models
They were off by 3% and are issuing credits, that is kinda cool
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:33 PM   #2283
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I wonder what theyre giving back, or how much.
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:06 PM   #2284
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Interesting posts over on Edmunds InsideLine and their long term test blogs. They had two seperate editors drive over to SEMA in Vegas. The Mazda 3 (skyactive) with a 39mpg rating only got 31.7mpg while the Impreza Sport with CVT returned 32+. Both were driven over 80mph on I-15. So for argument sake they returned the same mpg, but the Mazada is rated a fair bit higher.

I guess nobody hits the marks all the time.

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:33 PM   #2285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myrt1987 View Post
I wonder what theyre giving back, or how much.
http://www.news1130.com/news/world/a...cles-in-canada

Supposedly the difference in fuel consumption + a 15% premium (at least in Canada), not sure how it's going to work in the States.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:55 PM   #2286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
They were off by 3% and are issuing credits, that is kinda cool
If we whine and complain enough, would Subaru give us credit back for gas?

I understand that Hyundai is give credit back for the LIFE of the car!
That can be thousand of dollars.

In some models Hyundai if off by as much as 10%.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:33 AM   #2287
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You're assuming that Subaru reported numbers to the EPA that weren't in sync with their test data, and that this explains why you're disappointed with your Impreza's MPGs.

I'm going to guess that Subaru conducted the EPA tests correctly, and then reported the numbers correctly. So I'm not expecting Subaru to be sending me cash anytime soon.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:55 PM   #2288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgoldste01 View Post
I'm going to guess that Subaru conducted the EPA tests correctly, and then reported the numbers correctly. So I'm not expecting Subaru to be sending me cash anytime soon.
On the other hand we have Consumer Reports, pretty much taken as independent. I checked their mpg ratings. They do their own testing. I compared all 5 imports that got 27 mpg combined in their tests. That would be the Impreza 27/36, the Toyota Matrix 21/29, Volkswagen GTI 21/31, Kia Forte 22/32, and Volkswagen Jetta 22/33.

Compared to the average of the other 4, the Impreza's ratings of 27/36 were *inflated* by over 25% city, and over 15% highway."

That means the Impreza is 5 mpg worse than the average of the others, *including* a Kia.

We can do something about it here:
http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/node/add/complaint
and
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/oms-cmt.htm
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:33 PM   #2289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
On the other hand we have Consumer Reports, pretty much taken as independent. I checked their mpg ratings. They do their own testing. I compared all 5 imports that got 27 mpg combined in their tests. That would be the Impreza 27/36, the Toyota Matrix 21/29, Volkswagen GTI 21/31, Kia Forte 22/32, and Volkswagen Jetta 22/33.

Compared to the average of the other 4, the Impreza's ratings of 27/36 were *inflated* by over 25% city, and over 15% highway."

That means the Impreza is 5 mpg worse than the average of the others, *including* a Kia.

We can do something about it here:
http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/node/add/complaint
and
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/oms-cmt.htm
The EPA tests and the consumer reports tests ARE DIFFERENT. Some details about the CR testing here: link.
EPA test information is here: link.

Comparing the results of these two different tests and claiming some kind of conspiracy on the part of Subaru and/or the EPA is, IMO, ridiculous.

The EPA number is not some kind of magical guarantee that says you're going to get that mileage doing 80 mph on the freeway or doing short stop-n-go trips in your hellish city traffic.

Now, if someone were to replicate the EPA tests exactly and find significant differences then we'd have grounds for the complaining that is so rampant in this thread.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:21 PM   #2290
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Originally Posted by BigFatHorse View Post
Comparing the results of these two different tests and claiming some kind of conspiracy on the part of Subaru and/or the EPA is, IMO, ridiculous.
You're not following. I wasn't comparing the EPA test to the CU test. I was using the CU test a a baseline and comparing EPA numbers to each other using that baseline.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:58 PM   #2291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
You're not following. I wasn't comparing the EPA test to the CU test. I was using the CU test a a baseline and comparing EPA numbers to each other using that baseline.
Okay, I think I see what you are saying. You took five cars that all got 27mpg combined in the CR tests and then looked at how their EPA mileages compared. The Impreza's EPA mileage is higher than the average of the others.

So your thinking is that cars that score the same in one test should score the same in the other? Please correct me if I'm still not understanding.

I'm not sure that assumption holds all the time. Indeed, in the link to Consumer Reports from my last post there is a table comparing the EPA and CR mpg ratings of some cars. Seven of them were rated 40mpg in the EPA but they got scores from CR ranging 39 - 51mpg.

However, it does look like (at least in that small sample from the link) that the EPA combined mileage is usually pessimistic compared to the CR combined. If the Impreza's EPA combined is optimistic compared to the CR test then that would be evidence to something unusual going on. Maybe you've got something there! Although I think I would have to look at more data in both directions before being convinced that the Impreza is an outlier. (Sadly, my CR subscription is expired...)

My opinion is still that Subaru did not game the EPA tests, or at least not by much, since I'm able to exceed the EPA estimates in my 5MT Impreza without any trouble.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:54 PM   #2292
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Don't argue with stevehnm, it isn't worth the time you put into it.

On the other hand, if you agree with him, he is over in the Warranty thread trying to get Subaru Impreza owners to petition the EPA for some sort of compensation due to what he has concluded are the misleading EPA MPG figures for this car.

What a joke. He drove an average speed of 70+mph and could not achieve the EPA highway numbers? No kidding.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:01 PM   #2293
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BigFatHorse, the Consumer Reports link you provided does bring up a good point that I briefly wondered about when test driving the cars. The Sport, with it's wider and lower profile tires, gets the same mpg as the base version. It drives with significantly more control as well, and the salesman said the only difference is the tires. I wonder how many people getting low mpg's have the Sport edition?
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:04 PM   #2294
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He drove an average speed of 70+mph and could not achieve the EPA highway numbers? No kidding.
Happens in my Corolla...
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:06 PM   #2295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
Happens in my Corolla...
I had the same experience with my old '93 Civic. I would have had to floor it 100% of the time to get below 35mpg, I think. I regularly got ~45mpg out of it despite the EPA estimate of something like 33mpg or 35mpg.

I think your Corolla and my old Civic had much "wider" mpg curves. That is, the mpgs dropped off comparatively slowly above and below the car's "sweet spot." I think the Impreza's mpg curve is less forgiving. It's a bigger and heavier car with a larger engine (at least compared to my old Civic). Not to mention AWD... It can get decent mileage in some circumstances, but not as easily or as often as an old 1.5L 1000 lb. Civic.

If you are actually trying to petition Subaru to get money for gas you must be pretty unhappy with your car. Might I suggest an alternative? Sell it. Imprezas are in high demand right now. You'll lose some money on depreciation but it will probably be worth the money to get rid of the stress of a car that you are unhappy with.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:39 PM   #2296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatHorse View Post
I had the same experience with my old '93 Civic. I would have had to floor it 100% of the time to get below 35mpg, I think. I regularly got ~45mpg out of it despite the EPA estimate of something like 33mpg or 35mpg.

I think your Corolla and my old Civic had much "wider" mpg curves. That is, the mpgs dropped off comparatively slowly above and below the car's "sweet spot." I think the Impreza's mpg curve is less forgiving. It's a bigger and heavier car with a larger engine (at least compared to my old Civic). Not to mention AWD... It can get decent mileage in some circumstances, but not as easily or as often as an old 1.5L 1000 lb. Civic.

If you are actually trying to petition Subaru to get money for gas you must be pretty unhappy with your car. Might I suggest an alternative? Sell it. Imprezas are in high demand right now. You'll lose some money on depreciation but it will probably be worth the money to get rid of the stress of a car that you are unhappy with.
no the problem is those cars are more than 600-800lbs lighter, FWD (only 2 wheels to power, i'm sure you understand this, stevehm does not) and less overall HP.

i've tried arguing with him on this matter and but it is like talking to a wall. it is basic physics and some people really just don't understand physics.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:54 PM   #2297
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Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
no the problem is those cars are more than 600-800lbs lighter, FWD (only 2 wheels to power, i'm sure you understand this, stevehm does not) and less overall HP.

i've tried arguing with him on this matter and but it is like talking to a wall. it is basic physics and some people really just don't understand physics.
That's all taken into consideration when the EPA procedure is actually followed.

I don't think I'm the one who doesn't understand the physics here.

Stevehnm, (p.e.)
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:00 PM   #2298
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Averaged 21.4 on the last tank. :-/

600 miles on the car, MT, all stop and go traffic. Still disappointed in this and hoping it gets better as the car is more broken in. I was getting 24-25 on the same route in my BRZ.
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:04 PM   #2299
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Do you own both a BRZ and an Impreza, or did you trade in a BRZ in order to buy the Impreza?
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:12 AM   #2300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm

That's all taken into consideration when the EPA procedure is actually followed.

I don't think I'm the one who doesn't understand the physics here.

Stevehnm, (p.e.)
Either way whether or not epa testing was correctly followed in either case, logic dictates a heavier car with more hp and 4 wheels to power all the time (especially in my case with a 5mt) there is no way I expected to meet or exceed the epa highway numbers, mixed maybe, but not highway, I just don't drive either that slow or how it is tested. I'm a logical person who happens to understand physics. Anyway this arguing on the internet is like the special Olympics...
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