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Old 11-04-2012, 01:23 AM   #2301
bobdole888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
I dunno about the accelerate slowly bit. My take on it is get to whatever your cruising speed is going to be and back off. It seems to me that getting 12mpg for 5-10 seconds is better than getting 18 for 20. You also get the bump in mpg up to 30+ when you back off to cruise.

Did that make sense?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgoldste01 View Post
You're assuming that Subaru reported numbers to the EPA that weren't in sync with their test data, and that this explains why you're disappointed with your Impreza's MPGs.

I'm going to guess that Subaru conducted the EPA tests correctly, and then reported the numbers correctly. So I'm not expecting Subaru to be sending me cash anytime soon.
I do suspect that Subaru didn't conduct the EPA test properly.

Think about it, ALL models of Impreza with CVT get identical MPG rating. Doesn't that seem suspicious?
The hacth and sedan have different cd (hatch has 0.33cd, sedan has 0.31cd) they both get the same MPG. There are 3 different tire/wheel sizes used on the impreza...they all give the same MPG?
How about the sport model, they have the roof rails that adds extra drag...no MPG difference?
How about the Limited sport model, it weighs 176 lb more than the base hatch model...no MPG difference.

Doesn't it make you wonder how all these different impreza models are getting the exact same MPG?
Is there not the slightest possibility that Subaru might have tested improperly, or made similar errors that Hyundai did?

My understanding is that Hyundai made mistakes on feeding in data on cd, weight, rolling/coasting resistance data that's used to simulate real driving condition in a EPA testing environment on dynamos.

Are you so confident that Subaru did everything correct?
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:55 AM   #2302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdole888
How about the sport model, they have the roof rails that adds extra drag...no MPG difference?

Are you so confident that Subaru did everything correct?
Just a quick comment here, I agree with a lot of your points of your whole post. But the first question there is a vortex generator on the back of the roof rail to offset the drag created by the rails


Edit: stupid swype

Last edited by flyboy1100; 11-04-2012 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 11-04-2012, 02:18 AM   #2303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
Just a quick comment here, I agree with a lot of your points of your whole post. But the first question there is a vortex generator on the back of the roof rail to offset the fresh created by the rails
I've seen the video with the Subaru spokes person claiming that the little tail stub at the end of roof rail improve the mpg by 1.
I don't think there was any claim that the little stub completely offsets the mpg cost of the adding the rails.
Anyway, maybe all these things are within margin of error, or they are all fractions of mpg numbers so the don't ever show up when you look at each of these individually.

But if you look at all the things I mentioned, the sum of all these difference has to amount to some MPG difference, yet we see NO DIFFERENCE.
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:38 AM   #2304
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Do you think the EPA regrets moving from this label:



to this one (generic version of the 2013 EPA label):

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=bt1
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:58 AM   #2305
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Why would the EPA have regrets? How is the new label bad for the EPA?
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Old 11-04-2012, 08:52 AM   #2306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgoldste01 View Post
Why would the EPA have regrets? How is the new label bad for the EPA?
They removed the Expected Range for Most Drivers entirely.

It deemphasizes that how you drive affects what you see, though this is in the small print of the new label (as it was before):

"Actual results will vary for many reasons, including driving conditions and how you drive..."

Some buyers seem to think the numbers on the EPA label are guarantees. They are not, they are guidelines.

I think the older sticker was clearer. Ultimately it does not matter, Subaru neither gets to call the shots about how the car is tested for the EPA numbers, nor gets to decide what to print on the label as the EPA numbers. That all falls under the auspices of the EPA.
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:34 AM   #2307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper
Do you think the EPA regrets moving from this label:

to this one (generic version of the 2013 EPA label):

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=bt1
I think the new one is better, the biggest number is combined
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Old 11-04-2012, 10:42 AM   #2308
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Excellent points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdole888 View Post
I do suspect that Subaru didn't conduct the EPA test properly.

Think about it, ALL models of Impreza with CVT get identical MPG rating. Doesn't that seem suspicious?
The hacth and sedan have different cd (hatch has 0.33cd, sedan has 0.31cd) they both get the same MPG. There are 3 different tire/wheel sizes used on the impreza...they all give the same MPG?
How about the sport model, they have the roof rails that adds extra drag...no MPG difference?
How about the Limited sport model, it weighs 176 lb more than the base hatch model...no MPG difference.

Doesn't it make you wonder how all these different impreza models are getting the exact same MPG?
Is there not the slightest possibility that Subaru might have tested improperly, or made similar errors that Hyundai did?

My understanding is that Hyundai made mistakes on feeding in data on cd, weight, rolling/coasting resistance data that's used to simulate real driving condition in a EPA testing environment on dynamos.

Are you so confident that Subaru did everything correct?
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Old 11-04-2012, 10:46 AM   #2309
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Thanks Flyboy. I just ordered a dozen vortex generators. Maybe I can get my usage down to zero.

*for Zeeper:

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
Just a quick comment here, I agree with a lot of your points of your whole post. But the first question there is a vortex generator on the back of the roof rail to offset the drag created by the rails


Edit: stupid swype
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Old 11-04-2012, 11:08 AM   #2310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdole888 View Post
I do suspect that Subaru didn't conduct the EPA test properly.

Think about it, ALL models of Impreza with CVT get identical MPG rating. Doesn't that seem suspicious?
The hacth and sedan have different cd (hatch has 0.33cd, sedan has 0.31cd) they both get the same MPG. There are 3 different tire/wheel sizes used on the impreza...they all give the same MPG?
How about the sport model, they have the roof rails that adds extra drag...no MPG difference?
How about the Limited sport model, it weighs 176 lb more than the base hatch model...no MPG difference.

Doesn't it make you wonder how all these different impreza models are getting the exact same MPG?
Is there not the slightest possibility that Subaru might have tested improperly, or made similar errors that Hyundai did?

My understanding is that Hyundai made mistakes on feeding in data on cd, weight, rolling/coasting resistance data that's used to simulate real driving condition in a EPA testing environment on dynamos.

Are you so confident that Subaru did everything correct?
I think cd, wheels, roof rails, etc add up to small fractions of a MPG. The comment about the roof rail tabs making a 1 MPG difference is probably to do with rounding. I don't know how EPA decides rounding but the little tabs probably bump the calculation from 35.49 to 35.51 to get a 'round up' to 36 MPG.

So based on the different wheels, roof racks, weight etc., let's say the most efficient version of Impreza gets 36.49 mpg in an EPA test and the least efficient gets 35.51. Rounding says they both get 36.

If consumers really cared, it would be awesome to have actual road tests in addition to the calculated tests currently in place. Something like a "go around the Consumer Reports test track using 1 full tank of gas."

In the end though, we're talking about maybe 10% +/- on MPG in the real world across most manufacturers. Honda is generally slightly above EPA while Subaru is below. Even if Subaru did fudge some numbers (intentional or accident) they sold thousands of cars and the vast majority of purchasers are happy.
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:29 PM   #2311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
I think the new one is better, the biggest number is combined
I sencond that. The new one is better for the combined is shown as the big number and that's what most people should expect to see.

The 2012 label has city thand Hwy both big, but manufacturer only advertise the hwy number. People only remember the hwy number and get dissapointed when they don't get it.
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Old 11-04-2012, 11:09 PM   #2312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
BigFatHorse, the Consumer Reports link you provided does bring up a good point that I briefly wondered about when test driving the cars. The Sport, with it's wider and lower profile tires, gets the same mpg as the base version. It drives with significantly more control as well, and the salesman said the only difference is the tires. I wonder how many people getting low mpg's have the Sport edition?
... and one extra inch of ground clearance. I asked around about why atha was (suspension?) but didn't get any answeres, from dealers or on this forum. If you hear any details, Id' love to know.
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:49 AM   #2313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagocpo
... and one extra inch of ground clearance. I asked around about why atha was (suspension?) but didn't get any answeres, from dealers or on this forum. If you hear any details, Id' love to know.
.2" not 1". Unless you are comparing to a corola :evil:
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:50 AM   #2314
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I drove up through North Jersey this weekend, and seeing those lines for gas, I am glad I get 400 miles to a tank. That being said, I averaged 33 mpg on that trip. This was mostly driving long stretches of country road at 50-55 mph.

The EPA tests are based on the old tests to deal with Los Angeles smog. "City" is to recreate driving through LA streets, averaging 20 mph. "Highway" is an average drive on the 405 freeway (back when you could drive on it) at 50 mph. These tests were adopted into the CAFE laws, and as such do not represent real life for most people. If you drive like the test, you will see these numbers.
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:43 AM   #2315
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Lots of BS ricocheting around here - more than I've ever seen in a forum. Plants (?) Not that everyone who posts inaccurate info is a plant, there's just a lot of not checking out info - mostly posted by people who repetitively spew nonsense.

flyboy1100:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=bt1

"The Combined City/Highway estimate is the most prominent to allow quick and easy comparison to other vehicles"

foghelmut:
What makes you think the EPA tests from post 2008 are bason no the old tests to "deal with Los Angeles smog"? I don't follow that. Got a link to prove it?

Last edited by stevehnm; 11-06-2012 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:53 AM   #2316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm
Lots of BS ricocheting around here - more than I've ever seen in a forum. Plants (?) Not that everyone who posts inaccurate info is a plant, there's just a lot of not checking out info - mostly posted by people who repetitively spew nonsense.

flyboy1100:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=bt1

"The Combined City/Highway estimate is the most prominent to allow quick and easy comparison to other vehicles"

foghelmut:
What makes you think the EPA tests from post 2008 are bason no the old tests to "deal with Los Angeles smog"? I don't follow that. Got a link to prove it?
Here Ya go, get your class action suit ready, you can get back the 100(highly optimistic number) you might have lost out on.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2427586
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:09 AM   #2317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
Here Ya go, get your class action suit ready, you can get back the 100(highly optimistic number) you might have lost out on.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2427586
Let's see... The Hyundai Forte that gets 27 mpg in the independent Consumer Reports test says 22/32, the Subaru Impreza cvt that gets 27 mpg says 27/36... So the Hyundai gets 15 mpg better than the Impreza... Based on that (saying the Hyndai is accurate, which we know it's not) in 100,000 miles that's an additional 529 gallons... At $3.50 per gallon that's $1850... Might be worth the trouble.

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Old 11-06-2012, 09:34 AM   #2318
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You CVT drivers, what RPM is the engine at doing 70? 75?

Thanks.

--kC
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:52 AM   #2319
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Enough he said/she said please. Who argues on election day?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdizzle View Post
Calling all 2012 Impreza owners, post up your average MPG, average MPH (so we can see if you're mostly doing city or highway or a mix), and trim (so we can see if weight plays a factor). I'll start:

Average MPG: 25
Average MPH: 22
Trim: Sport Limited

Was expecting higher MPG but I guess it's pretty hard trying to drive like the EPA!
Avg Mpg: 40 readout, 37 calculated
Average MPH: 38-40
Trim: Limited
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:55 AM   #2320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
Lots of BS ricocheting around here - more than I've ever seen in a forum. Plants (?) Not that everyone who posts inaccurate info is a plant, there's just a lot of not checking out info - mostly posted by people who repetitively spew nonsense.

flyboy1100:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=bt1

"The Combined City/Highway estimate is the most prominent to allow quick and easy comparison to other vehicles"

foghelmut:
What makes you think the EPA tests from post 2008 are bason no the old tests to "deal with Los Angeles smog"? I don't follow that. Got a link to prove it?

I read it on another forum, no direct source.
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:29 PM   #2321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myrt1987 View Post
Enough he said/she said please. Who argues on election day?



Avg Mpg: 40 readout, 37 calculated
Average MPH: 38-40
Trim: Limited

Average MPG: Right around 34.5mpg calculated lifetime average (highest was 37.x lowest was 32.x)
Average MPH: 38 to 42 depending on traffic conditions
Sport Premium with CVT.

IF I could drive speed limit my commute looks somthing like this:
1 mile @30mph with 3 stop signs and a stop light
10 miles @65mph
22 miles @60mph
2 miles @30mph 1 stop light and 1 stop sign.

So you could say 90% highway, BUT that 22 miles @60mph has lots of stop-n-go traffic and road construction. So I'd call it closer to 65% highway. I'm looking forward to no road construction in about 2 years.

Yes there are 3 different tire sizes, but the outter circumfrence is nearly identical on all of them.

Last edited by jd_24; 11-06-2012 at 02:31 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:04 AM   #2322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
You CVT drivers, what RPM is the engine at doing 70? 75?

Thanks.

--kC

I didn't get a chance to try 75mph. Approx. values are:

60mph = 1850rpm
65mph = 2000rpm
70mph = 2200rpm

All were on the flatest roads I could find with little to no wind. I tried to keep the speed and accelerator constant. A slight push of the accelerator or a slight incline can cause the values to increase 1 to 2 hundred or so.

2012 Sport Premium with CVT. Everything is stock.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:05 PM   #2323
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i don't get why our last impreza was rated at 28 mpg, and my wife averaged about 29. but with the new '12 rated at 36mpg highway, she averages about 33mpg.

edit: so i guess ours is normal. just doesn't seem right though
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:20 PM   #2324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradze
i don't get why our last impreza was rated at 28 mpg, and my wife averaged about 29. but with the new '12 rated at 36mpg highway, she averages about 33mpg.

edit: so i guess ours is normal. just doesn't seem right though
Guy at work has a 2010 impreza 2.5 and he gets over the sticker. He averages 28-31 highway which I've personally witnessed which is just right below what I average. Hell if I woulda knew that I woulda bought one a few years back... I'm ok with what I average but I think they undershot previous models mileage.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:45 PM   #2325
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today i was in a rush to get home. the only time i had ever speed in this car. i usually hyper mile and get 36-40 mpg. but today was a whole other story. anyways, at 85-95 mph i average 25-28 mpg. am i surprised? no, not really. i know i was reckless, but it was the first and only time. i have over 15K in 6 months so i drive alot, it was just this one time.

on a related note, the car still felt there was some power left at 95 mph. but i am usually the guy people pass on the freeway doing 60 mph while the speed limit is 70.
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