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Old 11-06-2012, 06:45 PM   #101
delongedoug
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Derp.
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:49 PM   #102
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Thanks, Hip.
LOL +1

It's Nissan's GTR version of Hip. LOLOLOL, kudos to Nissan for keeping their Godzilla true to driving dynamics and not satisfying a completely dumbass human insecurity to "control" how a vehicle shifts manually.

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Old 11-06-2012, 06:50 PM   #103
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I've been on a spirited cruise in a GT-R. Paddle shifters are fine. For what it is, a manual would only detract. A non-manual really makes it nice for one to just focus on the power and marvel of technology that the car has to offer. If you're not into marveling then there are other cars worthy of your time that aren't the GTR.

It's the exact opposite with the BRZ, as Doug already pointed out. The automatic does fine, but it detracts from the purpose of the car.

Still not sure why people argue about manual versus auto with EVERY car. I can see if a manual was offered, and then discontinued (see Forester XT), but not if the car came with an automatic and never offered a manual.

I do not like how heavy the GTR is. It's my only real gripe. It seems to not hinder the car's performance much, though, so it's just a small gripe.
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:01 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by SWP n Gold View Post

This idea of "if you're complaining about the lack of a clutch pedal, you can't afford a GTR" is one of the most baseless arguments I've ever seen. It's a matter of preference, not income.



Right, guys that own the GTR wouldn't bitch about the lack of a manual because they've already purchased the car and decided it wasn't important. And just because the guys that are bitching don't own them, doesn't mean they don't have the means to do so.

Were is that whole " you hate it cause you cant afford it " post? Seems like you keep bringing it into play, but I didnt mention it.. and I didnt see anyone else either.
I would go with, the guys that drove a GTR realized the 3rd pedal would make the car slower... but sure not important is ok

I will say that 90% of the complainers, driven one let alone owned one.




Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
I do not like how heavy the GTR is. It's my only real gripe. It seems to not hinder the car's performance much, though, so it's just a small gripe.
That was a complaint too, until I really spent some time in it and realized... how the hell does it hide that weight
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:05 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by heavyD View Post

DCT's are the present and future and represent the best automakers have to offer in their sports car offerings. Pretty soon you won't be able to get a Ferrari with a manual transmission.

Pretty soon is now
You cant buy NEW traditional 3 pedal Fcars anymore.
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:13 PM   #106
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LOL, you do REALIZE the 2013 GTR is a ~$100k vehicle, correct? You don't go to work in the GTR, you go to your career in your GTR. There's a difference. ;D That scraps guy can whine about the GTR not having a manual all he wants, it's not like Nissan is going to listen to him QQ until he can even afford a GTR.

It's hilarious because there are some GTR owners coming here and looking at this thread. They're laughing their ass off at the people complaining when it's obviously a vehicle they can't even afford to begin with let alone a couple of Subaru owners complaining about a car from Nissan.
So a longshoreman or a utility worker making $140k a year can't go to work in a GTR?
Is a career solely defined by a suit and tie?
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:22 PM   #107
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My claim is that to me the GTR would be better FOR ME to drive as a manual. Do I care that it would be a few tenths slower. Hell Freaking No.
same here.

Manuals add fun to the mix... the drivers (anyways i do) feel more connected to the car with it.. i wouldn't even care if it was slower.. i wouldn't buy this car to do track days or lapping anyways..

it's something an auto stick /paddle shift can't do.. give feeling to the car. Plus, it challenges your skills... you operate the thing to make it faster and the results will vary depending on how you're good with it. not like just pushing buttons/paddles.


the ONE reason why they didn't make it with a manual tranny is cost. everyone can drive a padle shift. not everyone can/will drive a manual.

and if you design 2 transmissions, you design 2 AWD systems... whcih cost $$$$$

it's the same with all compagnies now.. except for Subies anyways..

Look at toyota, they made the LF-A. fully auto.

like they mad the Toyota Matrix AWD autostick only.

nissan Juke, same thing.

the list goes on.
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:26 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Junior2JZ View Post
The guys saying its more fun to drive a manual, probably have not driven an actual fast car around a track. Big difference controlling a manual 600+hp rwd/awd car then a 300hp subaru.

The guys driving GTRs and another fast "expensive" autos are the guys that are going fast, not trying to go fast.

What would I know though, I only post from my ACTUAL first hand experience.
You are absolutely right, my race cars are only 390 HP (2310 lbs) and 540 HP (3050 lbs).

Oh, and the guy who bring their " expensive" cars to the track are rarely fast, even in Miata terms.

My actual experience? Running a high performance and racing school for 13 years, driving competitively for almost 20 years.
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:52 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by A W View Post
LOL +1

It's Nissan's GTR version of Hip. LOLOLOL, kudos to Nissan for keeping their Godzilla true to driving dynamics and not satisfying a completely dumbass human insecurity to "control" how a vehicle shifts manually.

Its awe inspiring how completely brainwashed you really are. Do you know when you are brainwashed or is it painless because it happens slowly

WRXHillClimb, thanks for continuously reminding us how you are are so hardcore and bad arse and race police cars to drug busts with your awesome to the extreeeeeeeme driving skills
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:56 PM   #110
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WRXHillClimb =

Last edited by chanomatik; 11-06-2012 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:30 PM   #111
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I feel the GTR would have many more ruined transmissions if they allowed all GTR owners to drop there clutch at will.

I bet they choose not to produce a manual based in some part on this.


electronics can save a 9000rpm mishift into a lower gear, or a moron who wants to do donuts
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:43 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Junior2JZ View Post
Were is that whole " you hate it cause you cant afford it " post? Seems like you keep bringing it into play, but I didnt mention it.. and I didnt see anyone else either.
These:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jutes85 View Post
Usually, people who complain about the transmission will never have the funds to buy one anyways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DjTrav View Post
haters gonna hate, people with money and good jobs gonna drive nice cars. thats all this conversation is about imo. people using the term enthusiast as a crutch for not being able to own something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtP View Post
He's mostly right. 9/10 people who complain about the GTR this, the GTR that, The "Id just buy a (inset **** box used car) and put in (insert dollar amount and parts list) and make it fastAr" have never driven a GTR and can't afford one...and yet some how dont let people with 1991 civic hatchbacks #motorswap #stripinterior #turbokit use the same logic on their STI
Quote:
Originally Posted by A W View Post
LOL, you do REALIZE the 2013 GTR is a ~$100k vehicle, correct? You don't go to work in the GTR, you go to your career in your GTR. There's a difference. ;D That scraps guy can whine about the GTR not having a manual all he wants, it's not like Nissan is going to listen to him QQ until he can even afford a GTR.

It's hilarious because there are some GTR owners coming here and looking at this thread. They're laughing their ass off at the people complaining when it's obviously a vehicle they can't even afford to begin with let alone a couple of Subaru owners complaining about a car from Nissan.
While not everyone complaining can afford it, not everyone who can afford it, want it.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:46 PM   #113
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You don't buy a GT-R because you want a fun, tactile car you can "row through the gears" with. You buy it because you want the pinnacle in human achievement that is available to general consumer automobiles (within $100-150k).

Internet "drivers" will continue to bitch, Nissan will continue to make a car that is highly regarded and has no problem selling like they expect it to. Keep arguing on the Internet, I bet it's only a year or two more before the GT-R comes in manual thanks to you guys!
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:51 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by mhoward1 View Post
You are absolutely right, my race cars are only 390 HP (2310 lbs) and 540 HP (3050 lbs).

Oh, and the guy who bring their " expensive" cars to the track are rarely fast, even in Miata terms.

My actual experience? Running a high performance and racing school for 13 years, driving competitively for almost 20 years.
Id venture to say not a very high percentage of GTR's will see actual competitive driving. I believe the discussion is asking why don't they offer a Manual alternative. If i personally owned a GTR, it wouldn't be on a track. It would be on a back road...where the ability to use a CLUTCH, and skip gears, a manual is much more FUN.

So im wondering why not offer a manual for the die hards?

I think it would insult the engineers and also unflatter there owners, In addition to preventing unnecessary reputation of having glass transmissions
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Old 11-06-2012, 09:04 PM   #115
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Id venture to say not a very high percentage of GTR's will see actual competitive driving. I believe the discussion is asking why don't they offer a Manual alternative. If i personally owned a GTR, it wouldn't be on a track. It would be on a back road...where the ability to use a CLUTCH, and skip gears, a manual is much more FUN.

So im wondering why not offer a manual for the die hards?

I think it would insult the engineers and also unflatter there owners, In addition to preventing unnecessary reputation of having glass transmissions
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:26 PM   #116
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whatsofunny
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:54 PM   #117
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I love all the hate for the GTR trans. For everyone that has a comment, please mention whether you have driven a GTR. If you have, whether the drive was in a parking lot, track, normal driving, etc.

I drove a modded '12 GTR and OMG! It was easily the fastest low mph 1st gear roll to 120mph ever I have ever been in. The car lit up all four tires between shifts, but was totally controllable, shifts were amazing (991 PDK n/a was a little behind, but I feel the lower power is what hurt it vs. GTR), and the fun factor was through the roof.

At the last track day I attended, a helicopter pilot rode shotgun in a GTR. He had to as the driver to pull off early to get out because he was getting motion sickness in the turns.

I would not want a GTR with a manual (or a 458 or a MP4-12C or Aventador or Veyron).
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:17 AM   #118
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It is absolutely inarguable that for performance of modern production cars, the GT-R is the king. Especially when modded....nothing can compete with it when looked at across the performance range. With simple bolt ons you can run 10's at the drag strip on friday, beat 90%+ of cars on the street saturday, and do hot laps at a race track on sunday, having done zero changes to the car and with total reliability. It just can't be beat.
Has the GT-R proven to be reliable over the long term? They are tempting, and falling into my price range, but I'm always curious as to how long they can be expected to hold up. I recall Edmunds had a lot of issues with theirs and was wondering if they had a one off problem car or what. Routine maintenance costs seem to be high on them as well.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:16 AM   #119
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Not again . Manual transmission elitists.

Driving manuals isn't special, it's second nature to most that driven for a while and do not add additional "challenge".

I hate bringing up:

hand wash vs washing machine

typewriter vs computer

bicycle vs motorcycle


Quote:
Originally Posted by fr0st View Post
same here.

Manuals add fun to the mix... the drivers (anyways i do) feel more connected to the car with it.. i wouldn't even care if it was slower.. i wouldn't buy this car to do track days or lapping anyways..

it's something an auto stick /paddle shift can't do.. give feeling to the car. Plus, it challenges your skills... you operate the thing to make it faster and the results will vary depending on how you're good with it. not like just pushing buttons/paddles.


the ONE reason why they didn't make it with a manual tranny is cost. everyone can drive a padle shift. not everyone can/will drive a manual.

and if you design 2 transmissions, you design 2 AWD systems... whcih cost $$$$$

it's the same with all compagnies now.. except for Subies anyways..

Look at toyota, they made the LF-A. fully auto.

like they mad the Toyota Matrix AWD autostick only.

nissan Juke, same thing.

the list goes on.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:22 AM   #120
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I think there is quite a lot of confusions between what I personally have been trying to express about owning the GTR and people thinking that I don’t think the car is good. This morning on the drive in I think I have come up with a good analogy.

Company Tablerus has built a new machine, it can product high end coffee tables from uncut wood that even includes a variety of designs and finishes. The only requirement of the operator is to glue the produces pieces together in the right order. There isn’t a machine on the market that can touch the quality or the speed of this machine. Tablerus has earned pride in this machine as this is the pinnacle of their designs to date. Now would I want this machine? Yes if:
1) I own a table making company, but in this role I actually have no direct involvement in making a table.
2) If I am the operator and I get paid by the number of tables I produce.
3) I am trying to set the world record for the number of tables made in an hour.

I do NOT want this machine if
1) I want to show my skills as a carpenter
2) Building a table or two a year as a hobby in my garage just for fun.
3) Just like shaping the wood the way I want

It’s not just the transmission for me, it’s the fact that the car pretty much does everything for you and makes you look good doing it. There is no refining your skill, sense of pride by pushing up to and sometimes the edge, no sense of balance. A Sports car is a hobby car for me, I want to drive them for the fun, not the results. If I need to get paid to win I want the best tool for the job, otherwise I want a sense of accomplishment. I want to know that I won a race based on my driving and prep, not that the machine did 90% of the skill work for me. That includes just spirited drives on the weekends. The GT-R falls in the category of a hobby/fun car even though many consider it as a daily. I would love to have all the features the GT-R has in a sedan that I could use a daily driver. I think a DSG/PDK is perfect for that, auto for the daily grind, but sport when needed, but I don’t want that for the “hobby” driving. Then as a driver a person is no better than some of the pop music groups many complain about. The ones that have the melodies written by a computer through an algorithm that says it will sell, and lyrics by some guy they have never met, only sound good with auto tune and studio work, and have to lip sync when performing live. They may be selling a load of songs, but the tech is doing all the work. I’d much rather be the guy who performs acoustic in a small club if I have other significant income means.

Ok, done for now voicing my opinion.

Last edited by mhoward1; 11-07-2012 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:55 AM   #121
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Not again . Manual transmission elitists.

Driving manuals isn't special, it's second nature to most that driven for a while and do not add additional "challenge".

I hate bringing up:

hand wash vs washing machine

typewriter vs computer

bicycle vs motorcycle
Nobody but you has brought up being an elitist. But you.

As far as driving a manual being a challenge, no it is not hard. Nobody said it was. But it is harder than putting it in D and mashing the go pedal. It is more physically engaging than flicking your finger.

There is no amount of whining you can do to make that less true. Those are not opinions, those are FACTS. Driving a manual requires more interaction with the car. That is 100% unflappable truth.

What is an opinion is that I think driving a manual is more fun because of aforementioned facts.

You can feel free to argue all you want about my opinion, but you cannot argue facts.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:36 AM   #122
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Obligatory disclaimer: I am not the GTR's target demographic because I prefer crude, terrifying cars. However, I think Nissan's gearbox choice is totally consistent with the overall theme of the car.

Can somebody who has driven one of these fancy gearboxes please explain what's really "missing" compared to the manual transmission experience? Is it the clutch? Is it the inability to switch gears out of sequence? I don't really understand.

I've driven manual transmission cars exclusively for more than ten years, but I buy them simply because I want absolute control over what gear I'm in. I hate fighting with the clutch in traffic. I've driven some automatic rentals with "sport shift" options, and I think I would have enjoyed these if the "manual" mode always did what I told it to (rather than occasionally refusing to downshift). I assume sporty cars with DSGs are pretty obedient in this regard.

edit: However, I think I would prefer a separate upshift/downshift lever over flappy paddles.

Last edited by lemming; 11-07-2012 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:44 AM   #123
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It is the clutch feel, the feel of the gear shift lever, having to rev match on down shifts, and being able to pick and choose when and where you shift.

My experience is with a DSG 2009 M3. Fantastic engine and car, but felt a bit boring with just flicking my right finger. It would have been far better in a manual in my opinion. More interaction = more fun to me. Others are free to disagree.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:44 AM   #124
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GTR, PDK (with proper steering wheel option), E-Gear are equally as fun to drive as a manual. It's a total different experience than a manual, it's not a bad thing.

GTR, PDK, and E-Gear are nothing like systems found in midsize cars or automatics.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:44 AM   #125
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DSG blows.
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