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Old 11-12-2012, 03:03 AM   #1
olddohc
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Default Super Noob Needs 400hp :)

I love the safety of this forum, "no noob bashing" lol. I have been into hondas for 12 years. Having everything from a 140hp crx to my current 400hp 1995 coupe. Cut the BS, ill get right to the point. Im getting a 2003 plane wrx this weds. It has a blown headgasket so im getting it for dirt cheap. My buddy has an sti so he knows not what i need to do. My goal for now is 320-400 wheel, my ultimate goal is 450-500 on meth or e85.

My question is for the time being i have about $3000-$4000. can i sleeve the 2.0 that is coming with the car and fully build it or do i just get a 2.5l sti motor, swap that in and try to make 300 wheel on the stock sti with bigger turbo, better fuel supply, tune etc?

Or do I just fix the blown HG, ride around stock and build something on the side and save up until I have the $6000-$10000 i need? Thanks for all the help, and yes I am sure this has been asked a million times before so I apologize. I am going to search as much as I can but my deadline is weds so i thought by posting this i would get more info faster.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:20 AM   #2
turboedracer
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In the long run the 2.5 would be better. Is this goin to be a daily driver or straight track car? There are a ton of people making 300WHP on stock block 2.0 as well as 2.5. the STi block will make that 300 easy with turbo, tune, and fuel supply. Check out Unabomber's Manifesto has a ton of info and will prob answer your questions alot faster then waiting on a response. Even though it says no noob bashing people still will or just make smart unhelpful commnets.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:29 AM   #3
olddohc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboedracer View Post
In the long run the 2.5 would be better. Is this goin to be a daily driver or straight track car? There are a ton of people making 300WHP on stock block 2.0 as well as 2.5. the STi block will make that 300 easy with turbo, tune, and fuel supply. Check out Unabomber's Manifesto has a ton of info and will prob answer your questions alot faster then waiting on a response. Even though it says no noob bashing people still will or just make smart unhelpful commnets.
Thanks man. And yeah I read the first FAQ but it seemed like it was just a lecture on "do you know how much 400hp really is?" lol
This is going to be my daily driver. Like I said my civic makes 400 but traction sucks. Im trying a wrx b/c its AWD and i do not think I will have any problem putting down the power. not to mention i can keep AC. In all honestly I would be happy with 320 at the wheels. So Im leaning towards the 2.5l STI swap. Can this be done in my 03 wrx for $3000? they are both EJ and im assuming the mounts are all the same.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:50 AM   #4
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get a vf39 get tuned with e85 and be done cheap...I made 380/ 445 at the wheels with EL headers
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:14 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJavaPearl04 View Post
get a vf39 get tuned with e85 and be done cheap...I made 380/ 445 at the wheels with EL headers
Lol suuuuure ya did....

To OP, this is the same advice I give everyone, buy a different car. 400whp dd on a 02-03 WRX is going to cost a fortune. You will need to build everything: tranny, brakes, suspension, stand alone ecu, fuel system, and one hell of an engine build. I'd say a good 30-40k (hence the buy a better platform to start).

And it still won't be reliable.

Look at some of my old threads, I had a 470whp 02 WRX. I wish I never would have put that much time and money into such a ****ty car.

If you want, I'd fix the head gasket, keep it stock, and sell it. Then put that money towards a better car. At the very least a STI, better yet, and Evo 9, which can hit 400whp on the stock turbo with E85.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:56 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by rexblake View Post
Lol suuuuure ya did....

To OP, this is the same advice I give everyone, buy a different car. 400whp dd on a 02-03 WRX is going to cost a fortune. You will need to build everything: tranny, brakes, suspension, stand alone ecu, fuel system, and one hell of an engine build. I'd say a good 30-40k (hence the buy a better platform to start).

And it still won't be reliable.

Look at some of my old threads, I had a 470whp 02 WRX. I wish I never would have put that much time and money into such a ****ty car.

If you want, I'd fix the head gasket, keep it stock, and sell it. Then put that money towards a better car. At the very least a STI, better yet, and Evo 9, which can hit 400whp on the stock turbo with E85.
Not everyone can afford a STi or Evo. you can buy an 02 WRX and a used STI engine, tranny, brakes cheaper then buying an STI......
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:01 AM   #7
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Then buy a mustang...


There is no such thing as a cheap, high hp, reliable wrx.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexblake View Post
Lol suuuuure ya did....

To OP, this is the same advice I give everyone, buy a different car. 400whp dd on a 02-03 WRX is going to cost a fortune. You will need to build everything: tranny, brakes, suspension, stand alone ecu, fuel system, and one hell of an engine build. I'd say a good 30-40k (hence the buy a better platform to start).

And it still won't be reliable.

Look at some of my old threads, I had a 470whp 02 WRX. I wish I never would have put that much time and money into such a ****ty car.

If you want, I'd fix the head gasket, keep it stock, and sell it. Then put that money towards a better car. At the very least a STI, better yet, and Evo 9, which can hit 400whp on the stock turbo with E85.
If it would really cost 40k then yeah, but an m3 or something similar. If you get a built 2.5 and transmission with a big turbo and e85 or meth it shouldn't cost more than 10-12k and could easily be at 400hp. Thats assuming your not completely untalented and helpless and can actually do the work yourself). If you can't then yeah the mechanics and tuners are going to rape you.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olddohc View Post
Thanks man. And yeah I read the first FAQ but it seemed like it was just a lecture on "do you know how much 400hp really is?" lol
This is going to be my daily driver. Like I said my civic makes 400 but traction sucks. Im trying a wrx b/c its AWD and i do not think I will have any problem putting down the power. not to mention i can keep AC. In all honestly I would be happy with 320 at the wheels. So Im leaning towards the 2.5l STI swap. Can this be done in my 03 wrx for $3000? they are both EJ and im assuming the mounts are all the same.
$3000 will cover the STi swap. There are a ton of ways to get to 320WHP in a WRX with a STI swap or without the swap.


and to rexblake there is no cheap, high HP, reliable anything.......
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:02 AM   #10
ThunderousProduction
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2006 WRX putting down 325whp 327 wtq on the 2.5L with catless exhaust, K&N short Ram Intake, Rallispec gears, Stock Turbo, Cobb Accessport Stage 2 and a lot of custom mapping, runs 18psi. I might have missed a few things.

The easiest way to get power is by upping the air to fuel ratio with the cobb stage 2 but this is where the reliablity comes in because of the heat your going to need water/meth injection. my car runs 10.8 WOT and its pretty well balanced for temperature.

Now its true that EVERYTHING ELSE will need upgrade. I added an STI spoiler because the back end does get a bit tempermental at high speed, I have full coilovers because the stock ones are like riding around on mashed potatoes, I just split the calipers and cleaned, resealed, and inspected all the braking components (They get EXTREMELY hot) 600+ Farenheit. And thats with the 06 upgraded brakes which are much better then the original WRX ones (I had an 02).

So is it possible to make 320WHP on a WRX 2.5 motor, yes. on a STI motor, yes. On a 2.0, yes with a intermediate sized turbo. But then you have to worry about tires, wheels, brakes, bearings, suspension all being at their limit. With a lot of work and care you can have one that is both reliable and a power monster it basically comes down to eliminating heat in these cars they produce so much that it just tears components apart.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:28 AM   #11
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Save up for a 6 speed.
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:41 AM   #12
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First off when you're shooting for a specific whp # you really need to figure out which dyno you want to make those numbers on as they all read differently (and even the same one reads differently day to day). To the guy making 380 on a vf39 on e85 those numbers are HIGH, but I've seen it done on specific dynos. The numbers in my eyes are the worst way to judge a cars power, a 1/4mile trap speed will be a much better indicator of how much horsepower the car is actually making.

In reality if you are really looking to make 300-320whp then a simple 2.5L swap with a vf39 on e85 will get you there. Even at that power level don't expect the crappy gears on the earlier WRX transmission to last very long. If you're looking to make anymore power then that a six speed swap will be in your immediate future and cost you about 3-5 grand depending on where you source the parts and if you do the work or not.

If it's just a daily driver, in my opinion, anything more then 300-320whp is a complete waste on the streets. The bigger turbo will have great lag and you'll be far exceeding the speed limits and endangering lives in no time. If this was strictly a track car then you're better off saving some money and getting an STI as it's a much better platform to start a build on.
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:50 AM   #13
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Honestly if I wanted that much power, I'd look at a Evo 9. With minimal mods and I mean minimal, those cars can put down some nice numbers. And if somebody can afford to build a 400whp, then they can definitely afford a used Evo. Evo 8's, depending on miles go for relatively cheap. I'd be weary of the 5 speed on the 02-03 years of the WRX. But, the 2.0 WRX can put out the power, just need the money to do it.
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:59 AM   #14
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Lol, your 3-4k will buy you the transmission you need to hold the power.

Good luck with the rest.

These cars are like losing weight, in the sense that gaining power is very easy at fist, DP tune blah blah blah. But you reach a point where you plateu and it becomes expensive.
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:01 AM   #15
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My vote is for an EJ255 short block swap, 06/07 STi 6 speed, STi turbo, full exhaust and a tune.
That should be around what you're looking for, about as affordable as possible.
A tuner should be able to help you sort out what will work best for you.
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:09 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboedracer View Post
$3000 will cover the STi swap. There are a ton of ways to get to 320WHP in a WRX with a STI swap or without the swap.


and to rexblake there is no cheap, high HP, reliable anything.......
You'd have to find a heck of a deal to get a full STI swap for 3k. Not saying it couldn't be done, but might take a while to find that. Particularly if you want everything.

320whp is certainly a much more realistic goal, but it can still get spendy super quick. My 02 blew the stock engine at 280whp.

And I guess it depends on your definition of "cheap", but I was thinking used 90s mustang with a blower and supporting mods. That should be high hp for about the cheapest one could do. C5 corvettes would be an option too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by blueninja85 View Post
Honestly if I wanted that much power, I'd look at a Evo 9. With minimal mods and I mean minimal, those cars can put down some nice numbers. And if somebody can afford to build a 400whp, then they can definitely afford a used Evo.
This

And thunderousproduction, are you claiming 300+ whp out of a td04?
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:51 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by rexblake View Post
My 02 blew the stock engine at 280whp.

?

not to get off topic but how many miles and what mods? my 02 has 90k and shooting for 300whp with the AA trans..
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:59 AM   #18
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not to get off topic but how many miles and what mods? my 02 has 90k and shooting for 300whp with the AA trans..
16g, E85, 21psi, STI tmic, 750cc, walbro 255, tbe, 38mm ewg. Made 130whp over stock, had 120k miles on the engine. That setup lasted a couple months before it went.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:08 AM   #19
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Did you even read the manifesto? There's a thread specifically for people like you.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:14 AM   #20
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Why not look at an EJ207 swap? The EJ207 is the STi motor for the rest of the world. It is a semi-closed block like the USDM 2.5, it can have a twinscroll turbo (Version 8 and above), AVCS, big port heads, etc. It also spins to 8500 with ease, day in and day out. The 2.5L... not so much. It's a fantastic motor, perhaps the best overall EJ built. They also are WAY less prone to piston failure like the 2.5L. Best yet, EJ207's drop into the 02-05 WRX's so easy; they are nearly plug and play. No joke. Do a bit of searching in the 2.0L technical forum and see.

You can get a FULL EJ207 swap with the STi 6MT trans for $5600-$7000. On the higher end, they include the Brembo brakes and STi hubs/axles/etc.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:25 AM   #21
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Like most of the people in this thread, I would suggest getting an evo. Price for a used evo vs a used STi is a bit higher but you can make 400whp on the stock turbo in a evo for fairly cheap, compared to 400 whp in a Wrx or STi.
Guy I know did all the assembly of his STi motor, and got a killer deal on mostly all the parts, and machining ect. Let's just say on a fully built, sleeved 06 2.5 STi block with forged internals ect and built 08+ STi heads with 280 cams he maxed out a dw 300lph at 488whp.. on e85
This is after pouring 8-10k in the build.

His stock turbo evo 9 on e85 with no more than 3k in parts and tuning is making 400whp.

If I was going to build a super fast car, it would be an evo due to the pricing, and temperament of the 4g63.. Big turbo no tune.... No problem..
STi with a intake and no tune... Motor is unhappy.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:35 AM   #22
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Yes im running 300+ on a TD04, I know its said to be the impossible but I didn't relay all that's done to my engine either (internal stuff, higher compression). and 02-12 wrx 5 speeds all suffer the same problem. I went through 2 standard gearsets in 2000 miles. Either STI or Rallispec gear swap (What I did).

Subaru are a great platform for high cost. 10k+ build but as all others have said its not something you can cheap on. Ive already got 9500 into mine with a very good base car and ive got another 98,000 till im happy.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:37 AM   #23
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Also another friend has 15k in parts on his 06 STi, making 400whp on a stock block. But it just dropped compression.. So now his options are built block or see how long another stock block will last.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is the same as every one else. 400whp with a $3k is most likely unachievable. You gotta pay to play..
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:44 AM   #24
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granted i have a newer sti, but just to give you an idea to get 365 whp it cost me 4500. changed the turbo,inj.,fuel pump,up pipe,and cai. we did dyno at 392 but felt the psi was just too much. my point is nothings cheap and everyone that claims they want 400whp because 350 isnt enough in this little car is high as a kite. everytime i take off in this car and punch it i can understand why the thread "do you really want 400whp?" was made. and i came from 450 hp mustangs.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:50 AM   #25
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get a vf39 get tuned with e85 and be done cheap...I made 380/ 445 at the wheels with EL headers
So many to respond to where do i start. How bout to blackjava, seems like everyone else is being sincere and you throw in this nonsense? what gives man.
Too everyone else...
I know 400hp would not be cheap but i know it can be reliable. I had 15k in my other integra, it made 390 wheel and was reliable. I am buying the 03 for 4k and thought if i could get away with 3-5k and make over 300 wheel that would be pretty cheap for now and still reliable. I know the 2.5sti motor can handle 300 no problem. My buddy made 387 on his 05 sti with a bad tune. it ran for 3 years and finally spun 2 years ago. Yes i know ultimately i will need the sti tranny too.
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