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Old 11-12-2012, 11:52 AM   #26
olddohc
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Did you even read the manifesto? There's a thread specifically for people like you.
read post #3
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:53 AM   #27
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Pft and why not ?
I hope you're not being serious. But, if you are, here's a perfectly good reason:

You can't legally use 400HP on the street.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:55 AM   #28
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granted i have a newer sti, but just to give you an idea to get 365 whp it cost me 4500. changed the turbo,inj.,fuel pump,up pipe,and cai. we did dyno at 392 but felt the psi was just too much. my point is nothings cheap and everyone that claims they want 400whp because 350 isnt enough in this little car is high as a kite. everytime i take off in this car and punch it i can understand why the thread "do you really want 400whp?" was made. and i came from 450 hp mustangs.
This.

I've had 100 new subaru owners show up at our weekly meet and tell me they are aiming for 400whp. Everyone that rode in my car with 375whp/360wtq were blown away at how fast the car was. It would tear the tires off the road. 400awhp is very different than 400rwhp in feel when you're just having fun on the steets around town. The car was way faster than 400 hp RWD cars in nearly every way.

Also, that setup was a PAIN to keep running well. I'm done with that. EJ207 with a nice 300-350whp will be super fun and reliable. I can't wait to finish it.

If anyone is curious.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2061849

Last edited by kpluiten; 11-12-2012 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:55 AM   #29
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Why not look at an EJ207 swap? The EJ207 is the STi motor for the rest of the world. It is a semi-closed block like the USDM 2.5, it can have a twinscroll turbo (Version 8 and above), AVCS, big port heads, etc. It also spins to 8500 with ease, day in and day out. The 2.5L... not so much. It's a fantastic motor, perhaps the best overall EJ built. They also are WAY less prone to piston failure like the 2.5L. Best yet, EJ207's drop into the 02-05 WRX's so easy; they are nearly plug and play. No joke. Do a bit of searching in the 2.0L technical forum and see.

You can get a FULL EJ207 swap with the STi 6MT trans for $5600-$7000. On the higher end, they include the Brembo brakes and STi hubs/axles/etc.
Thank you for clearing that up. I knew that the japan stis were 2.0l that was why i wanted to build this up thinking it was the same platform lol. However i did not know they were that different. I like revving high too that is what i am used to.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:56 AM   #30
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2006 WRX putting down 325whp 327 wtq on the 2.5L with catless exhaust, K&N short Ram Intake, Rallispec gears, Stock Turbo, Cobb Accessport Stage 2 and a lot of custom mapping, runs 18psi. I might have missed a few things.
What kind of magical unicorn dyno were you on?

There is absolutely no way you are putting down anywhere near 325whp on the TD04 at stage 2. I don't care what kind of "custom mapping" you have. Even with e85, 300whp would be questionable.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:58 AM   #31
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granted i have a newer sti, but just to give you an idea to get 365 whp it cost me 4500. changed the turbo,inj.,fuel pump,up pipe,and cai. we did dyno at 392 but felt the psi was just too much. my point is nothings cheap and everyone that claims they want 400whp because 350 isnt enough in this little car is high as a kite. everytime i take off in this car and punch it i can understand why the thread "do you really want 400whp?" was made. and i came from 450 hp mustangs.
yeah i agree. 400 would be nice but i could live with 320, reliability and AC.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:06 PM   #32
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I hope you're not being serious. But, if you are, here's a perfectly good reason:

You can't legally use 400HP on the street.
REALLY??? This is NOT true, I have NEVER seen a law saying "no street car may have 400+whp" if you can toss up the link you saw it ill be happy to look into the source and let you know if your being miss informed.

But as far as the question being asked, I assume you can do the work yourself seeing the price point you mentioned for the swap.

Go order a JDM set up from Japan, they pull them out at 30-40k from my experience (friend over their looked into it personally from a place that does it) and like it was said before they come is a package with all the goodies.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:10 PM   #33
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REALLY??? This is NOT true, I have NEVER seen a law saying "no street car may have 400+whp" if you can toss up the link you saw it ill be happy to look into the source and let you know if your being miss informed.

But as far as the question being asked, I assume you can do the work yourself seeing the price point you mentioned for the swap.

Go order a JDM set up from Japan, they pull them out at 30-40k from my experience (friend over their looked into it personally from a place that does it) and like it was said before they come is a package with all the goodies.
He's saying that there's nowhere you can actually use all that power whilst safely adhering to speed limits I barely have enough room to toy around with my 350whp as it is, so I can only imagine how little I'd have at 400whp.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:15 PM   #34
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So apparrently you didn't pay attention to said lecture...I know you say you have driven "fast" cars, but there is a HUGE difference between a 2 wheel drive car and all wheel drive. Do yourself and your wallet a favor and start small.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:15 PM   #35
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320 is def reachable but not with $3000 on wrx motor and be reliable. Do the swap then build as you go. I think the best part of it is building the car slow and can feel it slowly get more powerful, enjoy it and get used to it rather then putting a ton of mods on it and trying to get used to 400whp on an AWD car its going to handle alot different then your honda (I had a honda hatch w/turbo before I got my first subie). All that matters is if you like it and you enjoy it. This site has alot of great info and people with lots of knowledge but also has alot of people who dont know what their talking about and people who like to talk crap and try to bring you down. Im getting a bugeye to make in a track car yes it would be easier to buy an evo or sti but bugeyes are sexy and looking forward to build it from the ground up.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:17 PM   #36
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He's saying that there's nowhere you can actually use all that power whilst safely adhering to speed limits I barely have enough room to toy around with my 350whp as it is, so I can only imagine how little I'd have at 400whp.
You're not doing it right...
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:23 PM   #37
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Why not look at an EJ207 swap? The EJ207 is the STi motor for the rest of the world. It is a semi-closed block like the USDM 2.5, it can have a twinscroll turbo (Version 8 and above), AVCS, big port heads, etc. It also spins to 8500 with ease, day in and day out. The 2.5L... not so much. It's a fantastic motor, perhaps the best overall EJ built. They also are WAY less prone to piston failure like the 2.5L. Best yet, EJ207's drop into the 02-05 WRX's so easy; they are nearly plug and play. No joke. Do a bit of searching in the 2.0L technical forum and see.

You can get a FULL EJ207 swap with the STi 6MT trans for $5600-$7000. On the higher end, they include the Brembo brakes and STi hubs/axles/etc.

This is the ^ BEST ADVICE ^ I have read so far...

I have a 04 ej205 2.0 WRX motor in my 02 WRX Wagon with 310whp at 21psi. That did not take much:
-Blouch 16g
-STI Pinks
-WB Fuel pump
-Full Exhaust collector porting and flange matching to the turbo
-ebay UP-DP
-TGV Delete & manifold spacers
-Process West TMIC
-ebay 2 core Rad
......this is all on a ruff tune, Id more then likely be 325ish with a cleaner map

Like others have said the 5 speed transmission is a major weak point above 300whp ( unless your not planning on diving it to ever see it to the wheels ) . So the solution for that is like most do, a 6 speed or get a built trans either used or new. Either way your looking at $3-4000 done right. I got a used PPG 1-4 helical box and had it torn down cleaned inspected and converted it all to 411 for a total cost of $4100, including the JDM STi v4 front diff.

Im planning on doping in the v8 ej207 long block I have in my basement this spring and bumping up the injectors and turbo to a Blouch 18g-xt-r. With a new tune I'll be in the 425whp area at the right boost.

IMO an ej207 would be the least money spent at a machine shop. Otherwise its getting a 2.0 or 2.5L sleeved, maybe a 2.2L if you can find one. Along with that you will need to build the heads if your not going STi heads with AVCS, and even then cams and bigger valves would help alot in the mid-high RMPs where your at full boost.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:23 PM   #38
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You're not doing it right...
Not all of us live near baron straightaways like you have in "Orygun" I live close to a major city, so the roads by me are crammed with commuters and cops every day. If I was near a straightaway with no one on it, I'd be going WOT til I redlined in 5th gear
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:15 PM   #39
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I have NEVER seen a law saying "no street car may have 400+whp"
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Originally Posted by Mr Wrex View Post
He's saying that there's nowhere you can actually use all that power whilst safely adhering to speed limits
Thank you. You can have all the horsepower you want. There's no law saying I can't drive a 600HP blown street rod around on public roads, provided it passes inspection.

However, I cannot drive (legally) above the speed limit, nor can I (legally) accelerate in a brisk manner consistent with a 600HP car from a dead stop up to the speed limit. So, anything over the HP number required to drive the speed limit, or accelerate without drawing the ire of law enforcement, is a waste of HP, and a waste of money building a car to that level.

Hence, my statement. Nobody "needs" 400HP on a daily driver. (You can also do without the reliability issues and fuel costs, too.)
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:16 PM   #40
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OP your diving into a money put to get those numbers.

The easiest way to get 400whp is going to be with ej207.

The swap with a tranny is going to run you a little under 10K all in all. That is including the wiring harness, getting the motor inspected, replacing the timing belt and water pump, new clutch and a new radiator (which I did because it was all torn apart, flywheel etc...

But with that motor using e85 and pushing a 20g pretty hard you can get to 400whp. But besides the swap your looking at another 10k. Wheels and tires, suspension, a used turbo setup (fmic, injectors, ewg up-pipe, turbo etc), all the interior goodies like gauges etc, and finally a good tune. So now your 20k deep and the motor is on a very shortened life span, and this is a built block from the factory).

Take that 20k and go get an Evo. You will be much happier that way.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:24 PM   #41
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http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1393580

I hope you mean 400 crank HP not whp. Either way, give that link a read.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:27 PM   #42
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2006 WRX putting down 325whp 327 wtq on the 2.5L with catless exhaust, K&N short Ram Intake, Rallispec gears, Stock Turbo, Cobb Accessport Stage 2 and a lot of custom mapping, runs 18psi. I might have missed a few things.
With 18psi on a td04?
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:38 PM   #43
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With 18psi on a td04?
Its one of those magical dynos. It magically makes a lieing scumbag (or complete moron, because no one that knows what they are doing would think those numbers are possible) tuner's wallet fatter by giving customers numbers made of fairy dust.

Customers that don't know any better, and have never driven a car with real power, get their car tuned, and all the sudden they have these huge numbers, and think the tuner is awesome. They have no idea their car makes nowhere near the power they were told it makes, so they just fall for it.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:40 PM   #44
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Yes im running 300+ on a TD04, I know its said to be the impossible but I didn't relay all that's done to my engine either (internal stuff, higher compression). and 02-12 wrx 5 speeds all suffer the same problem. I went through 2 standard gearsets in 2000 miles. Either STI or Rallispec gear swap (What I did).

Subaru are a great platform for high cost. 10k+ build but as all others have said its not something you can cheap on. Ive already got 9500 into mine with a very good base car and ive got another 98,000 till im happy.
I don't care what internal work, internal work doesn't make more power. Forged everything, makes absolutely not even 1/10th of a hp, it only makes things stronger, not more powerful. Higher compression will, but that will affect torque a LOT more than HP. Your tuner is full of ****. Your car and your tuner arent some magical combination that makes 50-70whp more than thousands of other cars with the exact same setup. I would put your motor at somewhere around 250-260whp, unless you have fairly extensive head work and cams you arent telling us about.

You can go through 500 gearsets bone stock, power has nothing to do with that, and if you are breaking gears on your mod list, its your driving, not the power your motor is putting out.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:53 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Davenow

Its one of those magical dynos. It magically makes a lieing scumbag (or complete moron, because no one that knows what they are doing would think those numbers are possible) tuner's wallet fatter by giving customers numbers made of fairy dust.

Customers that don't know any better, and have never driven a car with real power, get their car tuned, and all the sudden they have these huge numbers, and think the tuner is awesome. They have no idea their car makes nowhere near the power they were told it makes, so they just fall for it.
It is really sad seeing some of the hp numbers being thrown around here. My ej207 with just a tbe at 19psi is only putting down 260whp. I wish it would have yielded more but I am happy my tuner didnt bs me and it put things into perspective how expensive it really is to build and own a fast car.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:55 PM   #46
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It is really sad seeing some of the hp numbers being thrown around here. My ej207 with just a tbe at 19psi is only putting down 260whp. I wish it would have yielded more but I am happy my tuner didnt bs me and it put things into perspective how expensive it really is to build and own a fast car.
No kidding. The guy with 335whp and 101mph trap speeds comes to mind...
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:57 PM   #47
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Yea Davenow, rip the newbs a new one! They could really use the reality check after the "fairy dust" numbers they've been given
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:58 PM   #48
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Im making 500 WHP TD01/4 turbo set to 50 PSI and my turner hooked me up with Vtec in my STi and I made it RWD so I can drift ........Am I doing it right? I feel like this thread is not helpful anymore.....
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:58 PM   #49
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It is really sad seeing some of the hp numbers being thrown around here. My ej207 with just a tbe at 19psi is only putting down 260whp. I wish it would have yielded more but I am happy my tuner didnt bs me and it put things into perspective how expensive it really is to build and own a fast car.
mmmmm if your running cats for Cali emissions there's your problem

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I feel like this thread is not helpful anymore.....
So true, but welcome to NASIOC .....massive eye roll
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:04 PM   #50
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^^

No cats, I'm registered in Florida so the California police tend to leave me alone.

What I was told by my tuner was that the ej207 doesn't run a know sensor above 6k revs and didnt want to tune really aggressive. Told me to come back with an AFR gauge and an intake and I would be closer to 275-280whp. Plus CA gas sucks, switching to e85 would make a huge difference.
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