Broken ringland?

[pippen]

My car:

2008 STi
ID1000's
GS EBCS
TBE (catless)
DW65c fuel pump
E85 tuned by Phat Ron

Things to consider:

1. After removing the stock TMIC I found around a 1/4cup of oil where the Ypipe meets the turbo (compressor housing??).

2. While in the process of tuning with Phatbotti it seems that I am continuing to have slight knock on 3rd gear pulls. I don't feel anything, don't really hear anything and it seems to idle fine most of the time with the exception of the occasional idle flutter I guess you could say where it goes up and down on cold starts (not as bad as a vacuum leak just is a little weird sometimes).

3. The car seems to run good, maybe not as strong as I remember, though.

4. I had recently switched back to stock heat range copper spark plugs after the one step colders I had installed seemed to be making things a little worse on E85. (Idle, misfires)

5. Cold starts are retarded. The temp this morning was like 57 degrees and the thing will just crank forever. I feel like I'm going to burn up the starter before the car starts.

6. I had the car tuned for the above mods maybe 5 months ago. 2 months ago I had recurring CEL's with misfires on Cylinder #1. Following these CEL's I got a System too lean code and contacted Ron. He followed up with an update that contained something like 25% fuel increase. The car still wanted more fuel. I pulled the injectors and found out I had effed up and didn't put injector #1 o-ring on. The injector was very gunked up so I then pulled all 4 to verify o-rings and clean them. That fixed my rough idle problems and I have not had a misfire or any other code since. Ron updated the MAF scaling and we moved on to 3rd gear pulls. This is where the knock comes in.



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With the combination of the oil in the turbo and or burning of oil (less on dipstick), apparent loss of power and knock, Ron suggests it could be a ringland failure, problem with the pcv or blown turbo. My question is what is the easiest way to narrow it down to one of these and or what are your opinions? Ron suggested I let the car idle and pull off the oil cap and if it sputters crap and has hard hits of air coming out then it's a ringland. Should I also do a compression test / leak down test at this point also? The turbo seems to make boost just fine on paper, does that eliminate it being blown or do I have to pull the downpipe and inspect? And I'm really not sure how to check the pcv system..

One more thing is I see Autozone sells a compression tester but I don't have an air compressor to do a leak down test. Can I just take it to a shop and have them do it? Any suggestions for a shop in San Diego?

Thanks for all the help I'm about to just burn this car.

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[Uncle Scotty]

take the oil filler cap off with it running.......raw exhaust shooting out is bad

[pippen]

So i took the cap off. I can definitely feel puffs of air and there is slight smoke. C'mon gimme some good news.

[pippen]

It doesn't seem like I have a busted ringland, the turbo seems to be making boost just fine.. Could it be as simple as installing an AOS to fix the knock issue?

[pippen]

Bump. Help?

[nmlittlebigman]

Originally Posted by pippen

Should I also do a compression test / leak down test at this point also?

Yes^^^ Find a good shop. Get it done. Take it from there.

[CobbsSTI]

If you do a compression test you'll find out real quick. Then go from there.

[pippen]

So I ordered the grim speed aos and compression tester. Will do the compression test tonight and update

[CobbsSTI]

Some people might disagree but ive heard of the grimmspeed aos doing more bad than good. Might wanna look into that. I suggest the Crawford aos.

[Coop1103]

Your symptoms are almost exact of mine. My problem was broken ring land in cylinder 2. Compression test confirmed it as pressure was @70. Hope you stock piled away some $$ for a build. If you have any questions send me a pm.

[pippen]

Originally Posted by CobbsSTI

Some people might disagree but ive heard of the grimmspeed aos doing more bad than good. Might wanna look into that. I suggest the Crawford aos.

well damn isn't the most expensive part always the best??? lol i know what you mean about the Grimmspeed, it seemed like the majority of the reviews were good though. not sure how much boost those people were running but i'm at 22.5psi so idk what that will affect..

[pippen]

Originally Posted by Coop1103

Your symptoms are almost exact of mine. My problem was broken ring land in cylinder 2. Compression test confirmed it as pressure was @70. Hope you stock piled away some $$ for a build. If you have any questions send me a pm.

what did you end up doing? stock rebuild or beef it up? i have some extra cash i'm wondering if i should just go with forged pistons/rods. i would also need a shop local to SD because engine internals are foreign to me.

[Coop1103]

Yes. I just went all out. Short block build with Manley 100mm ceramic pistons....eagle rods and a full new turbo build with borg warner efr 8374. Twinscroll. Figured while I was without the car for months my as well make it worth the down time

[HinshawWRX]

Originally Posted by pippen

It doesn't seem like I have a busted ringland, the turbo seems to be making boost just fine.. Could it be as simple as installing an AOS to fix the knock issue?

You ignored the best advice.

A turbo will still make boost just fine with a busted ringland, there is almost no correlation for the 2 in that sense. An AOS does nothing for knock. AOS will get rid of the oil in your blow by, not reduce knocking.

Best thing you can do is a compression and leak down test.

[apexslider]

An AOS isn't going to help now. But a good investment for the new motor you will be building very soon.

Do the compression test, based on what your describing I'm betting you'll have one cylinder in the 60-70 range.

[pippen]

I was under the impression that blow by in your intake system can cause knock because of the degradation to your gasoline octane? Anyways I'm out of town for a couple days.. I'll update when I get back with compression test results.

[apexslider]

Originally Posted by pippen

I was under the impression that blow by in your intake system can cause knock because of the degradation to your gasoline octane? Anyways I'm out of town for a couple days.. I'll update when I get back with compression test results.

Yes, which is a big enemy of these cars. My factory system failed and cost me the stock motor (no big loss), but still learned the hard way because I didn't search here and listen. My story was almost identical to yours (symptom wise), and I had two cylinders down; 2/4. Both reading under 60psi and both had damage to 70% of the ringland.

I would put the chances of damage already being done to your motor at 65/35, hence it's a needed mod for your next one as this motor is likely toast. I'm also a glass half empty kind of guy when it comes to motors, expect bad so your not surprised later

[WRXSteye20008]

Sounds like the turbo seal, that would dump large amounts of oil into the TMIC and you would still hit peak boost with no issues. Happened to me already with the stock turbo. Have you checked that yet?

[pippen]

No I haven't, whats the best way to check?

[SeeeeeYa]

Originally Posted by pippen

So i took the cap off. I can definitely feel puffs of air and there is slight smoke. C'mon gimme some good news.

Sorry, not good news.

Taking the oil filler cap off a good motor, and just letting it rest on the filler tube while gently holding it, will cause it to jiggle... only. The "puffs" will be equally positive and negative, and cancel out any outward flow that would lift the cap. With the good motor it feels almost like it is slightly sucking it down... but not.

And there will definitely NOT be any smoke from a good motor's oil filler tube.

[apexslider]

YouTube has some good videos on this.

Does your turbo have any shaft play?

[pippen]

Compression test results:

Cylinder 1: 145
Cylinder 2: 145
Cylinder 3: 140
Cylinder 4: 55

I love the fact that it ended up being cylinder #4.. The last one I tested.

So what are my options now? Is this definitively a ringland issue or could the valves be jacked or some other random thing? If I pull the motor and order a new piston/rings I would have to hone the cylinder right?

Good news is I guess a badass shortblock will be a good replacement

[hutch959]

its not the valves.
the piston is broke.

if i was you, i would find some type of "forged" piston/rod combo that you and your tuner/shop agree on . then get it installed.

[ERL2011wrx]

This is my only fear with these cars. Just curious as to what oil and oci's you used?

[jaliscojorge]

Just curious, how much is the average cost for a shop to fix an engine? I live in the Chicago area if it helps get a better price estimate.