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Old 11-12-2012, 03:52 PM   #51
tommyson01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotown View Post
So you are saying that the STI has a drive-train loss of around 80+hp? or almost a 3rd.
Yup. Figure between 20-30% drivetrain loss. You also have to consider that a dyno never reads quite the same run to run.
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Last edited by tommyson01; 11-12-2012 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:01 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewvdw
09+ WRX's and STi's make almost the same power with the same mods. The tranny probably makes the biggest difference.
Not necessarily. Sti's will generally show about 40 more horse with a downpipe and a tune because of the bigger intercooler.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:16 AM   #53
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^if i can get 40whp more from a marginally bigger tmic, sign me up for a marginally bigger tmic!



oh yeah, you cannot get 40whp more from a marginally bigger tmic.
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:48 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by 13_DGM_Hatch View Post
Not necessarily. Sti's will generally show about 40 more horse with a downpipe and a tune because of the bigger intercooler.
Unfortunately, that isn't true. While it does provide superior cooling and prevention of heatsoak, if they have the same mods, the STi doesn't always make more power. Here's an example of the exact opposite actually:





It doesn't mention what gas is used, but the WRX dyno took place in August and the STi was in December so it certainly wasn't a humidity issue.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:16 PM   #55
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I live like right next to surgeline in tigard oregon. ..... just saving up, then thinking about going and seeing those guys
Talk to Tim, great guy, will not steer you wrong or push product you do not or don't need, bets tuner in the business.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotown View Post
So you are saying that the STI has a drive-train loss of around 80+hp? or almost a 3rd.
60-70, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 13_DGM_Hatch View Post
Not necessarily. Sti's will generally show about 40 more horse with a downpipe and a tune because of the bigger intercooler.
Nope, they read the same, the engines/timics are the same untill you push the stock WRX timic above 19-20psi, then the aluminum flanges start to bend out against the plastic end tanks and they can pop, the STI does have this problem.

The real advantages in the STI are all non engine related, DCCD, Brembos, 6mt, 114mm wheel bearings, stiffer suspension, the 2009-2010 make the same power with the same mods though, about 300 at the crank just like the STI and from there it is essentially the same engine. From 2011 on they seemed to have dialed out the stock tune to give the STI more of an advantage, but that is just tune.

Check out the COBB Dyno Database, it is quite informative.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:12 PM   #56
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i see alot of downsides to the 09.. anyone having issues with their 2010 wrx hatch?? i'm new to the subi world and can always use some facts and opinions
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:34 PM   #57
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Essentially the same thing, if I remember correctly, the early 09 cars had weaker pistons, I assume that's what you're talking about? I've got a 2010 WRX hatch as well. My motor is out right now, likely busted ringlands. That's the main problem with any turbo Subaru, especially when you start pushing the power like I am.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:24 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by etothen View Post
Talk to Tim, great guy, will not steer you wrong or push product you do not or don't need, bets tuner in the business.
Tim does not tune any more. Check with Lucas at Surgeline he is great.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:34 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freep

Tim does not tune any more. Check with Lucas at Surgeline he is great.
Cool thanks man
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:11 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by drewvdw View Post
Essentially the same thing, if I remember correctly, the early 09 cars had weaker pistons, I assume that's what you're talking about? I've got a 2010 WRX hatch as well. My motor is out right now, likely busted ringlands. That's the main problem with any turbo Subaru, especially when you start pushing the power like I am.

woah, woah, woah. who/what/where/why/when on this one? don't think it's the case.


some of the early buld dates (aug, sept '08) had spun rod bearings due to more environmentally friendly silver bearings, but that was quickly resolved. don't know if that's what you're talking about
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:56 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewvdw
Essentially the same thing, if I remember correctly, the early 09 cars had weaker pistons, I assume that's what you're talking about? I've got a 2010 WRX hatch as well. My motor is out right now, likely busted ringlands. That's the main problem with any turbo Subaru, especially when you start pushing the power like I am.
What kind of power are you pushing drew?
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:11 AM   #62
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I was at 350whp and 350wtq. I should be good up to 450-500whp when done.
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:31 AM   #63
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Keep the stock turbo, get a GOOD tune that's not pushing the limits, and stay on top of your service. Buying things like exhaust and intake are not going to hurt reliability if their tuned for and maintained correctly. When you go to adding a larger turbo, that to me is when a lot more stress is added due to the (usually) large jump in power
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:23 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColeBerkenbile
Keep the stock turbo, get a GOOD tune that's not pushing the limits, and stay on top of your service. Buying things like exhaust and intake are not going to hurt reliability if their tuned for and maintained correctly. When you go to adding a larger turbo, that to me is when a lot more stress is added due to the (usually) large jump in power
The vf-52 is a bad *** turbo tho,am i wrong?
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:58 PM   #65
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Yeah it makes good power. Anything bigger is taking everything else beyond what it was designed for though. Max out the 52 and you will be happy with it
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:06 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by drewvdw View Post
I was at 350whp and 350wtq. I should be good up to 450-500whp when done.
That's a lot of power for a soobie. I still wouldn't go that high. Lots of little things go wrong once you start making serious power like that.
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:51 PM   #67
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I agree. Like I have said in my post stage 2 FAQ, I wouldn't recommend going much above 300whp on a stock block.
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:25 PM   #68
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I'm making 360 whp on my vf52 09 wrx. I have E85 and basic bolt ons. As far as reliability I haven't had any problems, knock on wood, but every car is different. There is no telling when a certain amount of power is too much for something to handle.
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:34 PM   #69
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I agree. Like I have said in my post stage 2 FAQ, I wouldn't recommend going much above 300whp on a stock block.
I'm saying even on a built engine. It's asking for trouble to have a dd that high.
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:04 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by drewvdw View Post
.
where did you hear pistons on 09's are weak?
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:56 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimbus09

where did you hear pistons on 09's are weak?
It is a known fact that early 09 s had a habit of spinning rod bearings..... ive got 48000 on the odo.... most experiences ive heard of happens well before 50k... i suppose not all tho... thus the bumper to bumper warranty.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:07 PM   #72
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what do rod bearings have to do with pistons?

he said weak pistons (which i haven't heard anything about), not weak rod bearings (which i've heard plenty about).
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:29 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimbus09
what do rod bearings have to do with pistons?

he said weak pistons (which i haven't heard anything about), not weak rod bearings (which i've heard plenty about).
LolJust talking weaknesses ive heard about ... i know nothing about weak pistons.... except that theyre not forged sti pistons
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:53 AM   #74
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LolJust talking weaknesses ive heard about ... i know nothing about weak pistons.... except that theyre not forged sti pistons
sti pistons aren't forged.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:24 PM   #75
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[quote="sc00by4life"]

sti pistons aren't forged.[/QUOTE.

So what are the internal motor differences? Or is it all suspesion tranny brakes bigger intercooler etc.
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