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Old 11-06-2012, 02:39 PM   #51
simon021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Wrex

So pretty much you're letting the spring control boost levels with minimal assistance from the EBCS? Or did I interpret that wrong like a newb
No. I'm saying normally your stock turbo dynamics table increments the wgdc in much too large of steps. For example my wgdc was low 20s holding 19 psi to red line. So adding 1% has a much larger impact than on your stock solenoid that needs 80% to run that much boost.

The stock turbo dynamics is way too aggressive for an ewg. It's something like
-7 - 5 - 3 - 1 0 +1 +3 +5 +7

It should be something like

-1 - 0.78 - 0.56 - 0.32 0 +0.32 +0.56 +0.78 +1

That way the ecu is using smaller percentage increments to control the boost. This is how you get rid of that flutter.

I'm posting from my phone so I hope that shows up properly and makes sense
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:44 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simon021 View Post
No. I'm saying normally your stock turbo dynamics table increments the wgdc in much too large of steps. For example my wgdc was low 20s holding 19 psi to red line. So adding 1% has a much larger impact than on your stock solenoid that needs 80% to run that much boost.

The stock turbo dynamics is way too aggressive for an ewg. It's something like
-7 - 5 - 3 - 1 0 +1 +3 +5 +7

It should be something like

-1 - 0.78 - 0.56 - 0.32 0 +0.32 +0.56 +0.78 +1

That way the ecu is using smaller percentage increments to control the boost. This is how you get rid of that flutter.

I'm posting from my phone so I hope that shows up properly and makes sense
Yea that's what I meant, I just worded it kinda funky

Makes perfect sense though. I can't wait to see the video, provided you find it later. I am going to run a hybrid setup for more reasons than just the flutter, but it'd still be pretty neato to see an EBCS + EWG with no flutter.
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:04 PM   #53
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If you turn this up loud enough you can hear the EWG in the background. Even with the crappy sound you can hear that theres no flutter.

I wish I had a better video. I'm really suprised it's not louder in the video, but I dont even have any idea which camera phone it's from at this point. It's from a few years back.

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Old 11-06-2012, 10:14 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by simon021 View Post
If you turn this up loud enough you can hear the EWG in the background. Even with the crappy sound you can hear that theres no flutter.
You can hear it kick in faintly at 1.5 seconds. That is literally the only video I've seen of an EWG + EBCS combo not fluttering. Mind = friggin blown
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:18 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Wrex View Post
You can hear it kick in faintly at 1.5 seconds. That is literally the only video I've seen of an EWG + EBCS combo not fluttering. Mind = friggin blown
The entire point of an External wastegate is rock solid boost. I wouldnt expect anything less than that, no matter how you are controlling it.

You should be able to slam that thing up to target boost and hold it rock steady. When I switched over to the Hybrid method, I only picked up maybe 150-200 rpms of spool if even that. Most logs you couldnt even tell a difference depending on where I started the log at.

I sold the MBC because I didnt see the benefit to the hybrid system with an external wastegate. It's already solid enough. Theres not enough gain for the complexity of the system in my opinion.
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:31 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simon021 View Post
The entire point of an External wastegate is rock solid boost. I wouldnt expect anything less than that, no matter how you are controlling it.

You should be able to slam that thing up to target boost and hold it rock steady. When I switched over to the Hybrid method, I only picked up maybe 150-200 rpms of spool if even that. Most logs you couldnt even tell a difference depending on where I started the log at.

I sold the MBC because I didnt see the benefit to the hybrid system with an external wastegate. It's already solid enough. Theres not enough gain for the complexity of the system in my opinion.
An electronic boost controller uses a pulse modulation to control the wastegate. It cannot simply "hold it open" at a specific spot. It has to open and close very rapidly. If it's quick enough you don't hear it much, but usually with an external dump it's pretty obvious. You can still hear it in your video, but only slightly. It is actually impossible for an EBCS to not flutter. Certain things may make it less obvious, but it is pulsing, that is how it works.

A MBC will not flutter. It is a spring loaded ball that lifts depending on how much pressure it sees.
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:37 PM   #57
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Some good info here. I myself was contemplating going EWG as well in the spring. I have an ebcs.
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:38 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
An electronic boost controller uses a pulse modulation to control the wastegate. It cannot simply "hold it open" at a specific spot. It has to open and close very rapidly. If it's quick enough you don't hear it much, but usually with an external dump it's pretty obvious. You can still hear it in your video, but only slightly. It is actually impossible for an EBCS to not flutter. Certain things may make it less obvious, but it is pulsing, that is how it works.

A MBC will not flutter. It is a spring loaded ball that lifts depending on how much pressure it sees.
If you think you can hear flutter in that video, you are fooling yourself. I ran it with a MBC for months, and it didnt sound ANY different.

I understand it's sending pulses to the wastegate, but it's doing it extremely fast. You shouldnt be able to hear it

I dont hear any flutter in this video either, although like you said, most of the videos on youtube you can hear it pretty audibly.


Would the quality of the solenoid have anything to do with how fast it's pulsing, or would that be completely controlled by the ECU?
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:49 PM   #59
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You don't hear the flutter in that video?

Where in Iowa are you located?
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:11 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simon021 View Post

I dont hear any flutter in this video either, although like you said, most of the videos on youtube you can hear it pretty audibly.
First video you posted it was hard to detect the EWG let alone the flutter from the EBCS due to quality.

The second video however I feel there is the usual amount of EWG EBCS flutter. I can hear it pretty clear.
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:16 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by JSchell1309 View Post
First video you posted it was hard to detect the EWG let alone the flutter from the EBCS due to quality.

The second video however I feel there is the usual amount of EWG EBCS flutter. I can hear it pretty clear.
I have to agree with you on that. The second video does have flutter, but it's so minimal compared to most of the EBCS + EWG videos out there. It actually sounds pretty bearable
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:45 PM   #62
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I dont hear any flutter in that video. Maybe I'm going deaf? My neighbors probably think so after I watched that video like 20 times loud as **** lol

I guess this is what I think of when you say flutter. Obviously this is an extreme case.



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Old 11-07-2012, 08:30 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by simon021 View Post
I dont hear any flutter in that video. Maybe I'm going deaf? My neighbors probably think so after I watched that video like 20 times loud as **** lol

I guess this is what I think of when you say flutter. Obviously this is an extreme case.
Or maybe it's from the EWG doing that to ya

Holy hell, that guy needs a new tuner. I'd never drive my car if it sounded like that.
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:53 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Wrex

Or maybe it's from the EWG doing that to ya

Holy hell, that guy needs a new tuner. I'd never drive my car if it sounded like that.
Lol ^_^ maybe you're on to something there...

Yes that flutter is extreme. That car moves right along though
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Old 11-11-2012, 06:27 PM   #65
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STATUS UPDATE:
I FINALLY got my ewg hybrid setup installed. Still need to fine tune it, but it's pretty much done. I will post a video of the before/after sounds as soon as I'm done filming/splicing the two clips together!

EDIT:
Here's the sound clip. I really need to get a new recording device to really capture how beastly the EWG sounds. This is running off the hybrid setup mentioned in this thread, but I still need to adjust the tune to get rid of the flutter completely.

Here's the way I hooked up my boost controllers:
http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/t...brid_setup.jpg

I used a 1 bar spring (14.5 psi) and I am running 21 psi boost. Hope this info is useful to anyone who is thinking about getting an EWG!

Last edited by Mr Wrex; 11-11-2012 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:05 PM   #66
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I can't tell if it's the MBC, EWG, or my lead foot, but my mpg seems to have gone down by 3-4 mpg after I installed these parts. Could it be from the MBC's insta-boost or the EWG releasing exhaust? Or is it just from me trying to scare the living crap out of every driver I pass?
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:16 PM   #67
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Where's the video post-install??
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:20 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by findurpath View Post
Where's the video post-install??
Post #65. It starts at 25 seconds. FYI, you will hear a little flutter because I did partial throttle at first (which is when the EBCS controls boost) then went WOT (which is when the MBC controls boost) and the fluttering stopped.
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:25 PM   #69
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1. GS EBCS
2. 38mm
3. Yes, the car sounds like a pod racer from Star Wars. Flutter begins around 10psi.
4. .9 bar
5. 24psi
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:39 AM   #70
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I've read this thread probably about 5 times as well as done some other searching around on this site but I still have a question. I recently got a cobb ebcs, up pipe with 44mm v band, cobb dp, iwg bracket, and all that good stuff. My question is would I be safe for me to run the ewg set up without the ebcs for a week or so before I get a tune? I have a 1 bar spring and would be running 18.5psi with the stage 2 map. I know I need a tune to run the ebcs and everything safely but it's a slight drive to the shop and being a student I can't just leave when I please. I would just prefer to go ahead and install that stuff to save install costs...and well because how can you look at parts and not want to install them?
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:57 AM   #71
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Just installing the DP alone is enough to require a tune or for you to stay out of boost until you get one. If you were just installing the EWG, you would have been fine running the EWG off just spring pressure and you would need to disable the CEL that would be thrown by your stock BCS (I forgot the code #, but it relates to a sensor that measures the barometric manifold pressure. Maybe it was p108?).

Now maybe I misunderstood your intentions, so I will just assume you're planning on using the COBB stage 2 OTS map. Disconnect your stock BCS vacuum lines completely. I would still suggest the e-tune from Eric as that would be easy to flash on as soon as you install the parts and allow you to boost safely. I am currently using his stage 3 map with some custom tuning for an EBCS + MBC hybrid w/ the 38mm EWG and I friggin love it

Last edited by Mr Wrex; 11-15-2012 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:20 AM   #72
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You should load the Stage 2 map and run wastegate pressure. Don't connect the vacuum lines for the EBCS, but keep the electrical connector plugged in.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:57 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Wrex
Now maybe I misunderstood your intentions, so I will just assume you're planning on using the COBB stage 2 OTS map. Disconnect your stock BCS vacuum lines completely. I would still suggest the e-tune from Eric as that would be easy to flash on as soon as you install the parts and allow you to boost safely. I am currently using his stage 3 map with some custom tuning for an EBCS + MBC hybrid w/ the 38mm EWG and I friggin love it
Indeed I would be running the COBB stage 2 ots map. Pardon my ignorance but who is Eric? I would prefer to not drop any money on an e-tune since I would be going to drop $450 at TopSpeed soon anyways.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:58 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben
You should load the Stage 2 map and run wastegate pressure. Don't connect the vacuum lines for the EBCS, but keep the electrical connector plugged in.
So it would be safe for me to just run pressure and I can also go ahead and install the COBB ebcs if I just leave it all disconnected besides electrical?
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:16 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by 13koenig View Post
Indeed I would be running the COBB stage 2 ots map. Pardon my ignorance but who is Eric? I would prefer to not drop any money on an e-tune since I would be going to drop $450 at TopSpeed soon anyways.
Eric is the e-tuner from TP that I had mentioned. I can understand not wanting to spend more money for the tune, but you really do need one for the parts you listed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 13koenig View Post
So it would be safe for me to just run pressure and I can also go ahead and install the COBB ebcs if I just leave it all disconnected besides electrical?
As long as you connect the EBCS electrical plug in and remove all the vacuum hoses, your car won't throw any CELs related to it and run off the spring pressure in the EWG.

You won't be able to hear your EWG go off until you get the protune anyway because you can't go safely into boost without killing your engine. Idk how you'll pull that off for an entire week because it's hard to resist going WOT to hear that baby scream
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