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Old 11-15-2012, 12:18 AM   #1
awdtuning.com
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Default AWDTuning's 2011 "Mexico" STi 2.5 + Borg Warner s300sx3 turbo makes 675whp @ 32psi

AWDTuning's 2011 "Mexico" STi 2.5 EJ257 w/ Borg Warner s300sx3 turbo- 675whp at 32psi on E85


Event: dyno pull
Location: AWDTuning - Flower Mound, Texas
Ambient Temp: 55 degrees
Elevation: Approx. 500ft above sea level
Weather: clear and dry
Tires: Hoosier - Dragslicks 275/45/18

Car: 2011 STi
Tuner: AWDTuning- Keith Fields
Dyno Info: 1100SE AWD Mustang Dyno
Transmission: Stock 6speed
Gear: Stock
Peak HP at RPM: 675whp at 7500rpm - not it is SAE corrected
Peak Torque at RPM: 560wtq at 5500rpm - not it is SAE corrected
Baseline hp/tq for a stock on same dyno: 2.5L 2004 STi - 205hp/205tq
Target Boost: 33psi
Target AFR:
Fuel: E85
Engine/Power Modifications: AWDTuning "Stage5" built EJ257 w/ Darton Sleeves, Cosworth EJ25 crank, CP 99.75 piston, Pauter X-beam rods, ARP aged 625+ headstuds, BAMF Kelford cams, +1 Ferrea valves, Supertech dual valve springs & retainers, custom AWDTuning ported heads, Cosworth Intake Manifold, custom TGV deletes, ID2000cc injectors, Aeromotive fuel rails, Borg Warner s300sx3 divided T4 + 1.0 hotside, Ultimate Racing Twin Scroll kit, AMR FMIC core, custom FMIC kit, 4" intake (removed during tuning and track events), Aeromotive FPR, Twin Bosch 044's in surge tank, Full Blown 340 fuel pump, Grimmspeed BCS, custom 4" TBE, and howerton engineering alcohol injection kit (used for his daily driving tune).

Driveline Modifications: Stock 2011 STi transmission, ACT 6puck clutch, Stock STi flywheel, Drive Shaft Shop rear axles, PST carbon fiber driveshaft, and bushings/mounts

Suspension Modifications: KE Variant 3 coilovers, Whiteline front & rear sway bars, Whiteline front & rear endlinks

Other Modifications: Custom pt roll cage, Enkei rpf1 wheels, Hoosier 275/45/18, removed backseat but still has A/C, power steering, ABS, full dash, etc. Wing was removed at the Texas Mile.




This is the only picture I have of the dyno graph right now. I will get a better graph as soon as I get to the shop. The Green line is the FP3794 on C16 that he had, and the Red line is the BW turbo on C16.

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Last edited by awdtuning.com; 11-17-2012 at 02:42 PM. Reason: added new dyno graph
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:41 AM   #2
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Sick man, thanks for posting the comparison to the 3794. Do you think the twin scroll changed the spool time at all? Also, that 1.06 hot side is pretty big.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:45 AM   #3
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Nice. Very very nice!
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:56 AM   #4
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I will find the dyno chart and post a different thread for our FP3794 turbo where we made 709whp at 34psi on C16. The plan is to keep the FP 3794 and push it a little more for the Texas Mile and then switch to the BorgWarner turbo for the drag strip. We are also building a second engine with higher compression pistons and tuning on E98 in the next few weeks. (We actually gained 70whp on E85 over C16 on the BW turbo last week).
We had some issues with the AP during our Texas Mile runs in October so we've also upgraded to a Cosworth standalone and just ordered our dogbox PPG gears for our transmission.
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:02 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by grimlin View Post
I will find the dyno chart and post a different thread for our FP3794 turbo where we made 709whp at 34psi on C16. The plan is to keep the FP 3794 and push it a little more for the Texas Mile and then switch to the BorgWarner turbo for the drag strip. We are also building a second engine with higher compression pistons and tuning on E98 in the next few weeks. (We actually gained 70whp on E85 over C16 on the BW turbo last week).
We had some issues with the AP during our Texas Mile runs in October so we've also upgraded to a Cosworth standalone and just ordered our dogbox PPG gears for our transmission.
Sounds like a good plan. So you gained 70whp with a switch from C16 to E85? I'm a little confused. Is the cooling property of E85 really worth the loss of octane coming from C16??
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:02 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckyguy68
Sick man, thanks for posting the comparison to the 3794. Do you think the twin scroll changed the spool time at all? Also, that 1.06 hot side is pretty big.
We ran the FP3794 on the Full Race twin scroll kit with a Perrin 3.5" FMIC core originally and maxed out the air flow at 669whp at 34psi on C16. So we changed to the Ultimate Racing twin scroll kit with an AMR 5" FMIC core and a 4" TBE and were able to hit 709whp at 34psi on C16. And yeah the 1.06 hotside is big, too big IMO, but that's how the car originally came to us (but only pushing 511hp at 33psi on C16)
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckyguy68

Sounds like a good plan. So you gained 70whp with a switch from C16 to E85? I'm a little confused. Is the cooling property of E85 really worth the loss of octane coming from C16??
Yes. We were quiet surprised as well. But we made 500whp at WG pressure (25psi) on C16 and the very next day made 570whp on WG pressure (25psi) on E85. (I'll ask the tuner for the graph as well) Can't wait to see what happens with E98 and the new twin full blown pumps we just ordered
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:09 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by grimlin View Post
Yes. We were quiet surprised as well. But we made 500whp at WG pressure (25psi) on C16 and the very next day made 570whp on WG pressure (25psi) on E85. (I'll ask the tuner for the graph as well) Can't wait to see what happens with E98 and the new twin full blown pumps we just ordered
This is very interesting. I will take this into consideration over the winter while making some changes Can't wait for more updates!
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:10 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimlin View Post
We ran the FP3794 on the Full Race twin scroll kit with a Perrin 3.5" FMIC core originally and maxed out the air flow at 669whp at 34psi on C16. So we changed to the Ultimate Racing twin scroll kit with an AMR 5" FMIC core and a 4" TBE and were able to hit 709whp at 34psi on C16. And yeah the 1.06 hotside is big, too big IMO, but that's how the car originally came to us (but only pushing 511hp at 33psi on C16)
This is all great info to me. I'm running a 3.5" Turbo XS core and was wondering at what point I will run out of I/C. Sounds like the car was pretty rough only making 511 on 33psi and C16!
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:21 AM   #10
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Subscribed. Too much win here
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:01 AM   #11
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Gotta love E85!! great work guys!
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:02 AM   #12
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AWDTuning doin it big!



So happy for you guys and even more so for the owner! Glad this car has come together so well !


This makes me want to make mine even faster...damn you!
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:17 AM   #13
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The 3794 has a 1.15 hotside, and the Borg warner 1.0. The 1.15 is way big and was picked prior to its arrival at our shop, unless you plan on running the engine out to 10k. We really didn't want to do this until there is a accumulator or dry sump system in place in the event there is a sudden change in oil pressure at that level.

Once we post the final graph on the borg warner, you will see there is more left in it. I had to cut the tuning session a bit short as we had a track reserved and waiting for us at the time.

Regarding the e85, I assumed there would be an improvement as I wasn't really feeling the c16 at the edge of its octane. I was still surprised to see such a large gain as I haven't had the opportunity to test them back to back before.

Once the driver adjusted to the new power at the track later that day it ran a 10.6 at 141mph. Right after this we ripped the rear pinion in half. His goal is 9.5's in the 1/4 mile. Based upon the power level he is at right now with perfect driving w/ a dog box he should have been close to a 9.9 or 10.0. The car is a heavy pig though, so its going to take about another 100hp to reach his goal. This turbo probably wont get us there, but probably the next size up will. Either way its a blast to drive it hits hard at 5k and pulls all the way to 8k.
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:17 PM   #14
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We are looking to upgrade fuel from pump E85 to VP C85. Anyone else using C85?
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:18 PM   #15
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seems really expensive....proly VP tring to get some money back from all the sales they lost to pump E85
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:18 PM   #16
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VP Racing Fuels Latest News



TAKING E85 TO THE NEXT LEVEL - More Power, More Consistent Tuning



SAN ANTONIO, TX - VP Racing Fuels today introduced “C85” racing fuel, offering significant performance gains over conventional E85 according to Jim Kelly, VP’s Director of Racing Fuel Sales. “Conventional E85 gained some popularity because it was cheap and made some power, but it has a significant downside,” said Kelly. “In addition to requiring a costly E85 carburetor and completely revamped and upgraded fuel system, E85 is corrosive and very inconsistent.”

“When you don’t know if you’re getting 60% ethanol, 80% ethanol or something else, it’s extremely difficult to tune,” Kelly continued. “Many engine builders have cited up to a two-jet swing in their tune from one batch of E85 to the next. By contrast, C85 is blended with the same degree of care and precision as every other VP fuel, with a consistent proportion of ethanol and every other component in every drum. It takes all the guesswork out of tuning.”

“With VP’s focus on power, we’ve engineered C85 to make up to 4% more power and torque than conventional E85,” Kelly added. “In addition to these performance gains, C85’s higher quality pure components make it superior to E85 in terms of cooling effect, resistance to detonation and we’ve added corrosion inhibitors to fight the issues presented by ethanol.”

C85 will work well in drag racing, oval track, off road and virtually any other automotive racing application, in particular forced induction applications due to its lower vapor pressure. Tests of C85 indicate most applications will require richening up by 1 jet size, or 2-3% over current jetting.

“For racers who have already made the financial commitment to use an E85-type fuel , C85 is the best choice ,” Kelly said. “For racers who want more HP and torque than conventional 110 and 112 type fuels without the additional investment in an E85 carb and fuel system upgrade, VP's MS109, VP113 and Q16 continue to be the best race gas alternatives for the money.”

some threads on it:
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=463806-vp in this thread talking about what it can do
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-dyn...w-gas-c85.html

http://www.dragzine.com/news/vp-raci...l-racing-fuel/
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...their-c85.html
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...e_speed_parts/
http://forums.corral.net/forums/turb...acing-c85.html
http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/...n-e85-vp-fuel/
http://www.vpracingfuels.com/blogs/v...istent-tuning-

Last edited by Irv Weissmanhowerton; 11-15-2012 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:34 AM   #17
wgr73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irv Weissmanhowerton View Post
VP Racing Fuels Latest News



TAKING E85 TO THE NEXT LEVEL - More Power, More Consistent Tuning



SAN ANTONIO, TX - VP Racing Fuels today introduced “C85” racing fuel, offering significant performance gains over conventional E85 according to Jim Kelly, VP’s Director of Racing Fuel Sales. “Conventional E85 gained some popularity because it was cheap and made some power, but it has a significant downside,” said Kelly. “In addition to requiring a costly E85 carburetor and completely revamped and upgraded fuel system, E85 is corrosive and very inconsistent.”

“When you don’t know if you’re getting 60% ethanol, 80% ethanol or something else, it’s extremely difficult to tune,” Kelly continued. “Many engine builders have cited up to a two-jet swing in their tune from one batch of E85 to the next. By contrast, C85 is blended with the same degree of care and precision as every other VP fuel, with a consistent proportion of ethanol and every other component in every drum. It takes all the guesswork out of tuning.”

“With VP’s focus on power, we’ve engineered C85 to make up to 4% more power and torque than conventional E85,” Kelly added. “In addition to these performance gains, C85’s higher quality pure components make it superior to E85 in terms of cooling effect, resistance to detonation and we’ve added corrosion inhibitors to fight the issues presented by ethanol.”

C85 will work well in drag racing, oval track, off road and virtually any other automotive racing application, in particular forced induction applications due to its lower vapor pressure. Tests of C85 indicate most applications will require richening up by 1 jet size, or 2-3% over current jetting.

“For racers who have already made the financial commitment to use an E85-type fuel , C85 is the best choice ,” Kelly said. “For racers who want more HP and torque than conventional 110 and 112 type fuels without the additional investment in an E85 carb and fuel system upgrade, VP's MS109, VP113 and Q16 continue to be the best race gas alternatives for the money.”

some threads on it:
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=463806-vp in this thread talking about what it can do
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-dyn...w-gas-c85.html

http://www.dragzine.com/news/vp-raci...l-racing-fuel/
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...their-c85.html
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...e_speed_parts/
http://forums.corral.net/forums/turb...acing-c85.html
http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/...n-e85-vp-fuel/
http://www.vpracingfuels.com/blogs/v...istent-tuning-

I'm sure there will be a premium paid for this v.s. pump E85. While this is an awesome idea, I can get E85 (E85-E90) at the pump consistently.

There are places that are way more inconsistent and it may appeal to those. But E85 isn't as bad as VP makes it sound. Especially at 2x the cost of pump E85. $7/gal is better than their race gas counterpart though.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:39 AM   #18
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Yes, I think we are going to get this. He can't get E85 in Mexico and this is still cheaper and better than the C16 we were using.

Right now we are on the hunt for an upgraded rear diff pinion. If anyone knows of a company that makes this upgrade please let us know. We've had a few places say they could but it would take a long time and a lot if money.

We ordered our dogbox transmission yesterday. It should be here soon!
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimlin View Post
Yes, I think we are going to get this. He can't get E85 in Mexico and this is still cheaper and better than the C16 we were using.

Gotcha This is an awesome alternative in that case!! Great work again!
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irv Weissmanhowerton
VP Racing Fuels Latest News

TAKING E85 TO THE NEXT LEVEL - More Power, More Consistent Tuning

SAN ANTONIO, TX - VP Racing Fuels today introduced “C85” racing fuel, offering significant performance gains over conventional E85 according to Jim Kelly, VP’s Director of Racing Fuel Sales. “Conventional E85 gained some popularity because it was cheap and made some power, but it has a significant downside,” said Kelly. “In addition to requiring a costly E85 carburetor and completely revamped and upgraded fuel system, E85 is corrosive and very inconsistent.”

“When you don’t know if you’re getting 60% ethanol, 80% ethanol or something else, it’s extremely difficult to tune,” Kelly continued. “Many engine builders have cited up to a two-jet swing in their tune from one batch of E85 to the next. By contrast, C85 is blended with the same degree of care and precision as every other VP fuel, with a consistent proportion of ethanol and every other component in every drum. It takes all the guesswork out of tuning.”

“With VP’s focus on power, we’ve engineered C85 to make up to 4% more power and torque than conventional E85,” Kelly added. “In addition to these performance gains, C85’s higher quality pure components make it superior to E85 in terms of cooling effect, resistance to detonation and we’ve added corrosion inhibitors to fight the issues presented by ethanol.”

C85 will work well in drag racing, oval track, off road and virtually any other automotive racing application, in particular forced induction applications due to its lower vapor pressure. Tests of C85 indicate most applications will require richening up by 1 jet size, or 2-3% over current jetting.

“For racers who have already made the financial commitment to use an E85-type fuel , C85 is the best choice ,” Kelly said. “For racers who want more HP and torque than conventional 110 and 112 type fuels without the additional investment in an E85 carb and fuel system upgrade, VP's MS109, VP113 and Q16 continue to be the best race gas alternatives for the money.”

some threads on it:
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=463806-vp in this thread talking about what it can do
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-dyn...w-gas-c85.html
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=3069386
http://www.dragzine.com/news/vp-raci...l-racing-fuel/
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...their-c85.html
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...e_speed_parts/
http://forums.corral.net/forums/turb...acing-c85.html
http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/...n-e85-vp-fuel/
http://www.vpracingfuels.com/blogs/v...istent-tuning-
Seems like a rip off to me!
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:15 PM   #21
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I'd agree, 4% gains for 3-3.50/gal vs, basically c16 price at 88 per 5gal isn't worth it, but there is crappy places out there with %70 or lower instead of the 85 they are claiming, that will mess with afr and tune should prob be adjusted for each tank's quality of ethonal

as for his claims of corrosive, there are plenty here running it daily for years and injectors/fuel pump are fine, I have no idea about the lines, and im sure it depends on where you are for how fast you'll see something negative from pump e85

its amazing how many people are seeing better results with e85 vs top dollar c or q16, its like 1/4-1/5 of the price
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:48 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irv Weissmanhowerton View Post
I'd agree, 4% gains for 3-3.50/gal vs, basically c16 price at 88 per 5gal isn't worth it, but there is crappy places out there with %70 or lower instead of the 85 they are claiming, that will mess with afr and tune should prob be adjusted for each tank's quality of ethonal

as for his claims of corrosive, there are plenty here running it daily for years and injectors/fuel pump are fine, I have no idea about the lines, and im sure it depends on where you are for how fast you'll see something negative from pump e85

its amazing how many people are seeing better results with e85 vs top dollar c or q16, its like 1/4-1/5 of the price
I agree. We were running C16 on this car, but changed over to E85 and gained 70whp! (we are strong believers in E85 at the shop. I've been running it in my Legacy SpecB for almost 4 years now without seeing any issues).
Again, the biggest issue with this car is he can't get E85 in Mexico. He has a daily tune with 92oct+meth, but we are looking for something we can get here and import into Mexico without issues. We know VP can import which is why we are looking at what they have to offer. We were paying $12+/gallon for C16, so the price of this C85 isn't all that bad for how often it will be used. We are going to reach out to VP on Monday to order a drum of C85. I will post the results when we have them.
But yes, I do agree for most people, this is not worth it because we can just drive up to the pump and get E85. But I think we will be very happy with the results. We should have the new transmission and fuel in time for IFO on Dec. 9th.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:45 PM   #23
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I've had the pleasure to see 2011 Sti and there blue Sti at the Texas mile and both cars survived it AWDtunning knows what they are doing way up here in CT I see a lot of cars running E85 now making more power and not blowing up motors it's worth having a fuel meter that will tell you the content of the E85 if its 70% or higher so you know what your pumping at the time
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:31 PM   #24
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I guess the 'C' stands for cashgrab85!
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:49 AM   #25
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If you think C85 is expensive, check out FTW's e85.
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