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Old 11-06-2012, 09:35 AM   #51
sniper1rfa
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Because natural laws are alterable at the whim of forum posters.
Remember that we're talking about magnesium alloys, not straight magnesium. You can certainly modify properties like flammability by alloying with other metals.

Now, I have no idea if that's actually happened but it wouldn't surprise me. Magnesium is used as an alloying element or base metal in an alloy constantly, and you don't hear of magnesium fires very often, do you? No hardware stores with magnesium ladders going up in your neighborhood?
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:55 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by sniper1rfa View Post
Remember that we're talking about magnesium alloys, not straight magnesium. You can certainly modify properties like flammability by alloying with other metals.

Now, I have no idea if that's actually happened but it wouldn't surprise me. Magnesium is used as an alloying element or base metal in an alloy constantly, and you don't hear of magnesium fires very often, do you? No hardware stores with magnesium ladders going up in your neighborhood?
Shut up with your witchcraft. FIRE BAD
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:51 PM   #53
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magnesium? are they kidding?

Would love to see the full composition report to see what metals they are adding to prevent corrosion from road salt. This sounds like a very bad idea...
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:52 PM   #54
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If only GM had the existing technology to build vehicles with plastic or fibreglass bodies.
hitting the nail on the head...
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:32 PM   #55
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magnesium? are they kidding?

Would love to see the full composition report to see what metals they are adding to prevent corrosion from road salt. This sounds like a very bad idea...

Paint? Kinda like steel parts?
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:28 PM   #56
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hitting the nail on the head...
Their plastic car panels were as heavy as the metal panels, afaik, which was a big reason for not developing them further.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:35 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by mpristave View Post
Ah BMWs most reliable motor!


Because natural laws are alterable at the whim of forum posters.
This just in: Alloys change the properties of a pure elemental substance! More at 11.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:06 PM   #58
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Their plastic car panels were as heavy as the metal panels, afaik, which was a big reason for not developing them further.
Our '02 Avalanche has the plastic cladding and weighs around 4400 lbs. For vehicles like this, a small increase in weight is a good trade-off for corrosion resistance. My first chevy rusted out from under me sadly, and with the increasing use of more corrosive road salts, I pity people in the NE. I thought the reason for dropping plastic was because people didn't like the way it looked.

Our Avalanche also has single-side galvanized sheetmetal, which you can't do to magnesium (I don't think) or aluminum. I just noticed rust starting to form on the car after >10 years of rarely washing it. If you can anodize magnesium like you can aluminum, I guess that would be something. Paint is BS. Piant gets chipped too easily and then rust happens rapidly. Not the way to go.

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Old 11-14-2012, 04:21 PM   #59
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If you can anodize magnesium like you can aluminum, I guess that would be something.
Neither rusts the way iron does.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:58 PM   #60
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I can't believe how much my car got destroyed by rust when I moved here. Don't want to bother with new/ish cars anymore honestly given how trashed they get from salt. Just wish people would learn to drive in the snow instead
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:04 PM   #61
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Honda tried this with the RA302



"Jo Schlesser, who had struggled all weekend with the new Honda, spun at Six Frères. Witnesses stated that they thought his engine had cut out, and the Frenchman was a passenger as his car slithered up the embankment, overturned, and burst into flames. Spectators near the incident suffered minor burns as the magnesium-built car burned fiercely, Schlesser stuck underneath. "
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:48 PM   #62
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Honda tried this with the RA302


"Jo Schlesser, who had struggled all weekend with the new Honda, spun at Six Frères. Witnesses stated that they thought his engine had cut out, and the Frenchman was a passenger as his car slithered up the embankment, overturned, and burst into flames. Spectators near the incident suffered minor burns as the magnesium-built car burned fiercely, Schlesser stuck underneath. "
It's a good thing we don't use magnesium on modern cars. They are so much safer from burning. Unless of course there was something else like a tank full of highly combustible liquid fuel on them.



CN: modern racecars don't burn because no magnesium
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:12 PM   #63
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Everyone's always ranting about this Darwin character and how they want cars to be lighter and more fun without concern for safety I say it's time to vote with your dollars.
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:33 PM   #64
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Neither rusts the way iron does.

Actually, his point does stand. Magnesium allows can rust *really* fast when exposed to salts, because the salt causes the oxide to flake like iron rust does.

No road salt? not a problem. Those of us with salted roads have more to worry about.

That said, It's been used in airplanes for decades and I'm sure there are things you can do.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:45 PM   #65
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Actually, his point does stand. Magnesium allows can rust *really* fast when exposed to salts, because the salt causes the oxide to flake like iron rust does.

No road salt? not a problem. Those of us with salted roads have more to worry about.

That said, It's been used in airplanes for decades and I'm sure there are things you can do.


If only there were some sort of protective coating that could be applied to the surface of a panel to protect it. Perhaps it could be some sort of liquid that could be sprayed on and then dry into a solid. They could even add some sort of pigment to allow a customer to select a hue for the panel to appear!
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:52 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Hondaslayer
If only GM had the existing technology to build vehicles with plastic or fibreglass bodies.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank A View Post
hitting the nail on the head...
yep. that would be nice.
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:12 PM   #67
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If only there were some sort of protective coating that could be applied to the surface of a panel to protect it. Perhaps it could be some sort of liquid that could be sprayed on and then dry into a solid. They could even add some sort of pigment to allow a customer to select a hue for the panel to appear!
If only such a surface was actually rigid and didn't flake or chip at the SIGHT of a rock and could stand up to abuse without rigorous maintenance and didn't fade etc.

It's like you think no modern cars rust from regular driving on salted roads any more because they all have paint? Rust is like cancer: starts in ONE microscopic area and spreads like wildfire.
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:58 PM   #68
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If only such a surface was actually rigid and didn't flake or chip at the SIGHT of a rock and could stand up to abuse without rigorous maintenance and didn't fade etc.

It's like you think no modern cars rust from regular driving on salted roads any more because they all have paint? Rust is like cancer: starts in ONE microscopic area and spreads like wildfire.
There are other corrosion protective measures that bond to the surface chemically (flex and don't flake off) and do cut the corrosion potential back to the same levels as previous materials. These chemical treatments have been in use for a whle.

GM has a 6 year/100,000 mile corrosion warranty, they aren't going to screw themselves by putting rust-prone materials on cars.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:19 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by WRXHillClimb View Post
If only such a surface was actually rigid and didn't flake or chip at the SIGHT of a rock and could stand up to abuse without rigorous maintenance and didn't fade etc.

It's like you think no modern cars rust from regular driving on salted roads any more because they all have paint? Rust is like cancer: starts in ONE microscopic area and spreads like wildfire.
My Mustang has seen 10 years of salted Illinois winters with relatively poor maintenance and it has zero rust.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:29 AM   #70
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Walking around the seattle auto show this weekend I found most of GM's offerings pretty boring. Same ****, bright paint job and fancy wording. While walking around the ford section, I can honestly say I poked around every single vehicle there.
It's obvious ford has their ish together and knows how to sell cars.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:27 PM   #71
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Walking around the seattle auto show this weekend I found most of GM's offerings pretty boring. Same ****, bright paint job and fancy wording. While walking around the ford section, I can honestly say I poked around every single vehicle there.
It's obvious ford has their ish together and knows how to sell cars.
Ford has always seemed to be leading in the marketing side, without ever putting out a leading edge technology product.

Chrysler and GM have always had the lead in advanced tech innovations of the US companies.
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:38 PM   #72
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Ford has always seemed to be leading in the marketing side, without ever putting out a leading edge technology product.

Chrysler and GM have always had the lead in advanced tech innovations of the US companies.

Ford has direct injection, turbocharging, full EVs, hybrids, automated manuals, active grilles, automatic parking, all the latest radar guided nonsense, etc.

Chevy has...heavy cars? And the Volt.

If you take away Fiat's new engines, Chrysler is stuck firmly in 1995.

U wot m8? Ford is the only American automaker who seems to be innovating lately.

Last edited by skywaffles; 11-18-2012 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:58 PM   #73
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I have to agree with sky.

GM's designs are handsome don't get me wrong, but they leave a lot to be desired. Their marketing strategy is wholesome family oriented, borefest garbage.
As a twenty something year old with a blank check, ford seems like the better fun-per-dollar choice. Even the f150 instrument cluster vs silverado is enough for me. (Speaking of which, hello new ecoboost F150 for christmas. )

This is coming from someone growing up with parents and family having owned nothing but GM vehicles.
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:01 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by skywaffles View Post

Ford has direct injection, turbocharging, full EVs, hybrids, automated manuals, active grilles, automatic parking, all the latest radar guided nonsense, etc.

Chevy has...heavy cars? And the Volt.

If you take away Fiat's new engines, Chrysler is stuck firmly in 1995.

U wot m8? Ford is the only American automaker who seems to be innovating lately.

All the car companies have DI, Turbo, active grilles, etc etc. They are all working on lighter cars since they are all heavy.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:12 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by skywaffles View Post

Ford has direct injection, turbocharging, full EVs, hybrids, automated manuals, active grilles, automatic parking, all the latest radar guided nonsense, etc.

Chevy has...heavy cars? And the Volt.

If you take away Fiat's new engines, Chrysler is stuck firmly in 1995.

U wot m8? Ford is the only American automaker who seems to be innovating lately.
None of the things you listed came out on a Ford until after it's been in the market for years. I'm talking historically, GM has been leading car tech going back to the 1920s when ford kept making the same model T for decades.

Ford bought hybrid tech from Toyota, and most of their other innovations were not engineered in house beyond bolting off-the-shelf parts together. GM had full EVs in the late 90s, onstar, night vision. These are things that never existed in the market. Look back to the 50s and you'll find a lot more true "firsts" by GM and Chrysler. Most of the crap was crap and broke, but still. Ford doesn't try.

I'd still by a Ford over either of those two...none of them are innovating lately.
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