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Old 11-17-2012, 09:36 PM   #26
WiechWRX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERL2011wrx
This is my only fear with these cars. Just curious as to what oil and oci's you used?
Correct me if I'm wrong but no matter what oil you use, if you run 22.5 lbs of boost on factory internals you're going to hurt the motor.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:48 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiechWRX View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but no matter what oil you use, if you run 22.5 lbs of boost on factory internals you're going to hurt the motor.
Truth. Not "if," but "when."
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:37 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERL2011wrx View Post
This is my only fear with these cars. Just curious as to what oil and oci's you used?
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiechWRX View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but no matter what oil you use, if you run 22.5 lbs of boost on factory internals you're going to hurt the motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave D. View Post
Truth. Not "if," but "when."
oil is usually irrelevant to the ringland issue...but not always

if there are a lot of oil vapors(and thus oil) being consumed. then they can cause knock that causes broken ringlands

the issue is BAD TUNING more than anything else, really

there are other issues that can contribute, but that is beyond this discussion

and i have run 20-21psi since 2006 in my 2006 wrx and it isnt any issue

KNOCK is the issue....psi is irrelevant, really
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:45 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiechWRX

Correct me if I'm wrong but no matter what oil you use, if you run 22.5 lbs of boost on factory internals you're going to hurt the motor.
No, I wasn't saying the oil or a long oci was the cause I was just curious as to what it was.

While having my car tuned I mentioned the ringland issue and was told the chances are slim of it happening with a good tune and proper maintenance. Assuming the car is not abused daily.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:44 AM   #30
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Yea your ringlands are broke. Just hope that the wall of that cylinder isnt messed up.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:35 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERL2011wrx View Post
This is my only fear with these cars. Just curious as to what oil and oci's you used?
I definitely didn't change the oil often enough and I was running Royal Purple. I'm wondering since I was missing a freakin o-ring on the injector if that had something to do with it but that was on cylinder #1.. Maybe the leak in the injector threw off the computer and caused the car to run lean?? Keep in mind there was no o-ring for 2 or 3 months, and multiple pulls/launches in this time. The spark plugs looked a little hot when I pulled them for the compression test.

Soooooooooooo I guess now I might as well build a solid motor.. I have my eye on a short block built by Graveyard Motorsports (yeah I just heard of them too) and they have a solid short block deal

Stage 2 Custom Built Short Block EJ257
  • All Custom Machine Work Included
  • -CBN Resurfaced
  • -Hot Tanked
  • -Bored and Finished Honed to Piston
  • -Torque Plating Optional
  • -New OEM Blocks Optional, No machine work required
  • Forged Piston ( Usually Manley, Wiseco, or CP)
  • Forged H Beam Connecting Rod ( Usually Manley or Eagle)
  • New OEM Crankshaft
  • ACL Bearings
  • ARP Main Studs!!
  • New Freeze Plugs
  • Upwards of 650 HP
http://www.graveyardmotorsports.com/...sb%20ej257.htm


They give you a bunch of options on the build like nitrated crankshaft, other stuff.. Looks like a good package all for $2800. Can you guys recommend anything else local to San Diego?
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:46 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by pippen View Post
I definitely didn't change the oil often enough and I was running Royal Purple. I'm wondering since I was missing a freakin o-ring on the injector if that had something to do with it but that was on cylinder #1.. Maybe the leak in the injector threw off the computer and caused the car to run lean?? Keep in mind there was no o-ring for 2 or 3 months, and multiple pulls/launches in this time. The spark plugs looked a little hot when I pulled them for the compression test.

Soooooooooooo I guess now I might as well build a solid motor.. I have my eye on a short block built by Graveyard Motorsports (yeah I just heard of them too) and they have a solid short block deal

Stage 2 Custom Built Short Block EJ257
  • All Custom Machine Work Included
  • -CBN Resurfaced
  • -Hot Tanked
  • -Bored and Finished Honed to Piston
  • -Torque Plating Optional
  • -New OEM Blocks Optional, No machine work required
  • Forged Piston ( Usually Manley, Wiseco, or CP)
  • Forged H Beam Connecting Rod ( Usually Manley or Eagle)
  • New OEM Crankshaft
  • ACL Bearings
  • ARP Main Studs!!
  • New Freeze Plugs
  • Upwards of 650 HP
http://www.graveyardmotorsports.com/...sb%20ej257.htm


They give you a bunch of options on the build like nitrated crankshaft, other stuff.. Looks like a good package all for $2800. Can you guys recommend anything else local to San Diego?
I am also in san diego and having the same problem. My car is currently at subie shop in oceanside recommended by crawford, im getting a compression test tomorrow morning.

Last edited by HinshawWRX; 11-21-2012 at 06:45 AM.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:35 AM   #33
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I've never heard of graveyard motorsports. Personally if I cant find good reviews and usually some peoeple with personal experience that I can physically talk to I wont go to a shop or vendor. Many times the "price is right," type of thinking will end up costing you twice as much as getting it done correctly the first time. Your best bet will be to go on your local chapters sub forum and talk to some members there that have personal experience with the shops in the area.

Otherwise that sucks your ringland is toast. Sometimes i still feel like these engines are hit or miss when it comes to making some poor. I've seen blocks go out at stage 2 levels, but I've been running mine at 320/360 (mustang dyno) on e85 for over a year @ 24psi without an issue. I religiously change my fluids, monitor (log) the car for knock ect, and if somethings wrong I stop beating on it. Otherwise I drive the piss out of the car. I can't imagine buying and modding a car and then never even getting into boost.
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:21 PM   #34
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^^ I agree with every single thing you said. The only thing I absolutely won't do is launch the car as I'm afraid of breaking the transmission.

OP, do it right the first time and have the motor built by a reputable shop, even if it costs considerably more. In the end, it will actually be cheaper.
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:34 PM   #35
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Nitraited crank shouldn't really be an "option" or "add on." If they get stock "STI" blocks from Subaru it comes with this already. And for that price when I built mine, Import Image Racing (Vendor on here) gave a better deal with better "options" and much more rep.
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:57 PM   #36
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^you would want to go to p&l. They are very popular in Subaru world. May be a little on high end but they would do a great job.
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:08 PM   #37
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So far I'm looking at these builders - Outfront Motorsports, Graveyard and ASF Machine. Outfront seems to be.. out front so far lol. Partly because they are the closest to San Diego and I like the quote he gave me. Using ASF or other builders would require me to A. buy new case halves or B. ship them my block to use, which in the end is probably going to be close to the same price, which is slightly higher than Outfront anyway.

I need questions for these guys since I don't really know what I'm talking about lol. Here are some things I have read about, and not quite sure what they mean.. Maybe you guys can help.

Blueprinting. I have often heard the term "balanced" accompanying this term. I get the difference between static and dynamic balancing, and I don't think a dynamic balance will be necessary for my particular situation, but do all motors come "blueprinted"?

Oil passages. I guess this means they hone out some of the oil passages to improve oil flow? Is this also something that needs to be done?

Timing belt kit. How important is it to get an aftermarket kit? Will the OEM not cut it?

Torque plates. Uhh.. what?

Aftermarket oil pickup. I have read cases where the OEM apparently doesn't work as well?

Rev limit. I see a lot of engine packages with claims of like 8000RPMS and stuff.. Is that necessary or something that will tickle my fancy? Doesn't really seem like I need another 1000RPMS..

Compression ratio. With my current setup, with the possibility of a few more aftermarket parts, possibly a bigger turbo in the future with slightly more boost, what compression ratio will be best?

Hopefully you guys don't tell me to "search the forums". I mean obviously I have heard of these terms, I just need more info on what works best in conjunction with my situation.

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Old 11-21-2012, 05:22 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pippen View Post
So far I'm looking at these builders - Outfront Motorsports, Graveyard and ASF Machine. Outfront seems to be.. out front so far lol. Partly because they are the closest to San Diego and I like the quote he gave me. Using ASF or other builders would require me to A. buy new case halves or B. ship them my block to use, which in the end is probably going to be close to the same price, which is slightly higher than Outfront anyway.

I need questions for these guys since I don't really know what I'm talking about lol. Here are some things I have read about, and not quite sure what they mean.. Maybe you guys can help.

Blueprinting. I have often heard the term "balanced" accompanying this term. I get the difference between static and dynamic balancing, and I don't think a dynamic balance will be necessary for my particular situation, but do all motors come "blueprinted"?

Oil passages. I guess this means they hone out some of the oil passages to improve oil flow? Is this also something that needs to be done?

Timing belt kit. How important is it to get an aftermarket kit? Will the OEM not cut it?

Torque plates. Uhh.. what?

Aftermarket oil pickup. I have read cases where the OEM apparently doesn't work as well?

Rev limit. I see a lot of engine packages with claims of like 8000RPMS and stuff.. Is that necessary or something that will tickle my fancy? Doesn't really seem like I need another 1000RPMS..

Compression ratio. With my current setup, with the possibility of a few more aftermarket parts, possibly a bigger turbo in the future with slightly more boost, what compression ratio will be best?

Hopefully you guys don't tell me to "search the forums". I mean obviously I have heard of these terms, I just need more info on what works best in conjunction with my situation.

Good questions. Unfortunately the indicate you have no idea what you're getting into.

Take the list to the people you are interviewing to build your motor... they're the ones to ask.

Or, pick someone with a good enough reputation you trust them already. Then let them do their job.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:24 PM   #39
pippen
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Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post
Good questions. Unfortunately the indicate you have no idea what you're getting into.

Take the list to the people you are interviewing to build your motor... they're the ones to ask.

Or, pick someone with a good enough reputation you trust them already. Then let them do their job.
Yeah I don't know what I'm getting into.. That's why I'm here

I'm just hoping to get a little more information so I can make an educated decision on which builder to go with.

Last edited by pippen; 11-21-2012 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:56 PM   #40
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All really depends what you want to do... do you want to do a bottom end build, or full build

If you wanna do a bottom-end build that can net you around 400-450whp safely on e-85 than I would do

Block
Bore or Hone(depending on the damage of the block)
Acid dipped
CP/JE/Arias pistons
Subaru OEM Crank(you can probably re-user yours)
ACL Main+Rod bearings
Eagle Rods

Heads
Valve job for Heads
Acid Dipped heads
ARP Head Studs

New OEM Water pump
New OEM Oil Pump
Timing belt kit

Full build(easy 500+ hp)

Block
Bore or Hone(depending on the damage of the block)
Acid dipped
CP/JE/Arias pistons
Subaru OEM Crank(you can probably re-use yours)
ACL Main+Rod bearings
Brian Crower I Beams w/ ARP 625+ fasteners


Heads
Aftermarket Springs & Retainers
Aftermarket Valves
272 or 280 cams... GSC or Brian crower
Port & Polished heads
Valve job
ARP Head Studs

New OEM Water pump
New OEM Oil Pump
Timing belt kit
Killer-b Oil Pick-up




You'll see a significant price difference though if you decide to do a full build.. but will definitely be worth it in the long run.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:06 AM   #41
pippen
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Originally Posted by wrxbby View Post
All really depends what you want to do... do you want to do a bottom end build, or full build

If you wanna do a bottom-end build that can net you around 400-450whp safely on e-85 than I would do

Block
Bore or Hone(depending on the damage of the block)
Acid dipped
CP/JE/Arias pistons
Subaru OEM Crank(you can probably re-user yours)
ACL Main+Rod bearings
Eagle Rods

Heads
Valve job for Heads
Acid Dipped heads
ARP Head Studs

New OEM Water pump
New OEM Oil Pump
Timing belt kit

Full build(easy 500+ hp)

Block
Bore or Hone(depending on the damage of the block)
Acid dipped
CP/JE/Arias pistons
Subaru OEM Crank(you can probably re-use yours)
ACL Main+Rod bearings
Brian Crower I Beams w/ ARP 625+ fasteners


Heads
Aftermarket Springs & Retainers
Aftermarket Valves
272 or 280 cams... GSC or Brian crower
Port & Polished heads
Valve job
ARP Head Studs

New OEM Water pump
New OEM Oil Pump
Timing belt kit
Killer-b Oil Pick-up




You'll see a significant price difference though if you decide to do a full build.. but will definitely be worth it in the long run.
I would love to just go all out on this.. but my fear is "in the long run" it will just blow up lol. I keep reading on here over and over again about guys with crazy a** setups like that that just never hit above 10,000 miles.. it seems like SOMETHING always happens. I assume you gotta except that when you go for a build like that, and I don't have the funds to allow me to except that, so I think I'm forced to just keep it mild and do the bottom end.

The first block you suggested is pretty much what I'm after, except the setup I'm looking at has Manley h-beam rods, and no acid dip.. what's the advantage in that? Thanks for the suggestions!
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:15 AM   #42
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I would love to just go all out on this.. but my fear is "in the long run" it will just blow up lol. I keep reading on here over and over again about guys with crazy a** setups like that that just never hit above 10,000 miles.. it seems like SOMETHING always happens. I assume you gotta except that when you go for a build like that, and I don't have the funds to allow me to except that, so I think I'm forced to just keep it mild and do the bottom end.

The first block you suggested is pretty much what I'm after, except the setup I'm looking at has Manley h-beam rods, and no acid dip.. what's the advantage in that? Thanks for the suggestions!
If you dont get block acid dipped at least get it vatted they comlletely clean out the block to make sure there are no shavings. Acid dip removes all the gunk you will see when the block is pulled apart + shavings.. pretty much makes it look brand new.

A full build wont necessarily die quickly all depends on the tuner, how you drive it and maintain it. If you drive it like a bat out of hell all the time yea ot wont last

I am bottom built only right now myself but doin a full build but for now I have

Manley pistons
Eagle rods
Oem crank
Acl main+rod bearings

So far 12k miles on it and its been built a year. If your happy with 400-450whp that is perfect build for you.. but if you ever want more prepare to rip it apart again to build heads and replace H beam rods considering H beams are only good for about 500whp safely.

My opinion id spend the extra 200$ and get Brian crower I beams. Well worth it

Last edited by wrxbby; 11-22-2012 at 12:34 AM.
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Old 11-22-2012, 02:41 PM   #43
pippen
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Ok.. couple more questions lol

1. Smog. Does building a motor like this have any negative affect on smog? Can I just throw on the stock exhaust with the cats and be good?

2. Heads. Do I need to get them decked?
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Old 11-22-2012, 04:14 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pippen
Ok.. couple more questions lol

1. Smog. Does building a motor like this have any negative affect on smog? Can I just throw on the stock exhaust with the cats and be good?

2. Heads. Do I need to get them decked?
I was in the same boat. I researched a ton and just found horror story after horror story about built motors. I went with an ej207 simply because of this fact.

Someone once told me a subaru motor is like a virgin. Never the same once you open her up lol.
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:30 AM   #45
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Ok.. couple more questions lol

1. Smog. Does building a motor like this have any negative affect on smog? Can I just throw on the stock exhaust with the cats and be good?

2. Heads. Do I need to get them decked?

It is strongly suggest you get the block and heads decked

Also if you're running cats, whether it's built or not should not have any negative effects when it comes to smog
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:52 AM   #46
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So in talks with Joe from asf machine and Jeremy from outfront motorsports.. Outfront is close enough to me where I wouldn't have to ship the motor, and I really just like the way Joe is explaining things to me. Getting close to pulling the trigger on one of these, any more input from you guys?
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