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Old 11-16-2012, 04:05 PM   #226
joshuaj
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I've never said no one should buy it or that it sucked. Can't even have a discussion about anything anymore....everyone starts throwing a fit unless you're posting "badass bro"
Very true. I just keep it to myself more often than not..

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Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
If everyone wants the fastest spool it looks like killers b's low mount kit is going to take the cake on performance. But it's like $1500 more than this one.
Chris's low mount kit pops up in every thread with a mention of fullrace, headers, exhaust, etc.. The simplicity, reliability and mass location of the FR EFR kit is way more interesting to me personally regardless of cost.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:52 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
it is not simple to put an EFR in the stock subaru location - doing this properly takes more than meets the eye. Additional components are stiff EFR wastegate actuator, billet BOV, inconel turbo studs, etc. The highest cost from this comes from the downpipe which is handmade one at a time *in the car* to have perfect fitment even on the trans tab.

If you wanted this kit but needed to save a chunk of $$, order it without the downpipe and fab your own or modify an old one


First I want to say I have a lot of respect for your products judging from what I have read and gathered from around here, but it is difficult to not be critical of that pricing. Maybe I (as well as most people here) are missing some things.

Is the stiff EFR WG actuator mentioned above anything more than a stiffer spring to replace the stock EFR Wg Spring that comes w/the turbo? If so what is it?

The billet BOV sounds shiny and tough... Why is this inclusive though rather than just being an option (unless there are big fitment issues with the stock BOV)...

Inconel studs sound like they won't sweat no matter what you throw at them, but again assuming these add a lot to the cost of the kit without actually being necessary, why are they not just an option like above?

And Each downpipe is made in a subaru? Why not just make a jig to hold the parts similar to how most DP's are made, especially seeing as the DP appears to have a flex joint which I would imagine might clear up some minute fitment issues (possible wrongly imagining that )

It just seems like going to a car dealer where the dealer tries to sell you a car with every non necessary option checked and already tied into the MSRP, and then tellin you that the engine isn't included and it will cost a lot more.




How much for just a DP and UP??
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:16 PM   #228
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its discussed about 5-10 posts up.....$2000 for the dp/up.....$1500 for the turbo.

its also on their website

http://www.full-race.com/store/efr-t...rbo-kit-2.html
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:29 PM   #229
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If u don't buy from full race, you are only half or a quarter race; now, we can't have that...
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:39 PM   #230
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I am a dealer for Full Race. Words can not describe what goes into the R and D on Geoffs products. I currently have 4 Full Race manifolds in my showroom. I learned a long time ago that Full Race is worth the money hands down. I've been in the Honda game since the late 90's and that's all we use here for Honda. I've been pushing to get Full Race to carry more and more Subaru product because "us" Subaru owners appreciate a good product.

As its being shown, you won't be disappointed.

With that being said, feel free to call, pm or email me for great pricing on great products from Full Race.

Dave@FASTofwestchester.com
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:45 PM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FASTofwestchester
I am a dealer for Full Race. Words can not describe what goes into the R and D on Geoffs products. I currently have 4 Full Race manifolds in my showroom. I learned a long time ago that Full Race is worth the money hands down. I've been in the Honda game since the late 90's and that's all we use here for Honda. I've been pushing to get Full Race to carry more and more Subaru product because "us" Subaru owners appreciate a good product.

As its being shown, you won't be disappointed.

With that being said, feel free to call, pm or email me for great pricing on great products from Full Race.

Dave@FASTofwestchester.com
I second this I went and saw their facility and learned how it started and how they produce their work. I have also seen how they do their downpipes for subaru (part of a subaru on its side.... With the engine, tranny, ect in place)

Ford had them make a turbo kit for their truck if that doesn't say something I don't know what will. The products are made in the US. You get what you pay for.

It's sad to see the community rag on them for price just because so much of this crap is made in china now. Just like people going up in arms about grimmspeeds stock downpipe being 500 and cateless. You pay for R&D at these companies and a superior product.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:04 PM   #232
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you cant even buy the materials to make the ebay exhausts for less than they sell em for here. $150 for a tbe and $350 for tbe, up and header. its just rediculous. and the magnus knockoff intake manis are $90 now. fuel injectors for $120 a set. i really wish more people had the budgets for quality parts.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:35 PM   #233
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People in SoCal are just so hyped up with baller rims that they don't have any more monies left
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:22 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
its discussed about 5-10 posts up.....$2000 for the dp/up.....$1500 for the turbo.

its also on their website

http://www.full-race.com/store/efr-t...rbo-kit-2.html
I know, I looked it up and made a comment about it. I'm asking how much for the DP/UP without inconel turbo studs, oil/coolant lines, a billet BOV, and a wg actuator which I hope to be more than a single spring, as all of these things were mentioned as being the reason the kit is much more than just an UP and DP. I want to see how much they are actually charging for an UP and DP.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:07 AM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sburck

I know, I looked it up and made a comment about it. I'm asking how much for the DP/UP without inconel turbo studs, oil/coolant lines, a billet BOV, and a wg actuator which I hope to be more than a single spring, as all of these things were mentioned as being the reason the kit is much more than just an UP and DP. I want to see how much they are actually charging for an UP and DP.
Full Race only has it listed as a kit. Pm for uppipe and downpipe pricing
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:32 PM   #236
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sburck - if you genuinely care to purchase individual components at the lowest price possible - we're having a black friday sale this week so give a call with what you need. our guys will not try to coax you into anything you dont want, but also not interested in hand holding and discussing each component ad nauseum. I have reasons for everything we do, but will not justify my engineering decisions or explain every nut and bolt on a public forum. The customers have the option to buy the whole kit, buy parts of the kit, or nothing at all - cant really make it much easier than that
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Old 11-23-2012, 03:47 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
correct - Twinscroll EFR must be used in rotated configuration. The reason is it's a much longer unit than the T25 (measured axial length) and there is not enough space between a Subaru's intake manifold and firewall for this long a turbo + 3" vband downpipe to fit it all
Do mean the small frame twin scroll is too long? (6258,6758,7163)
I fully understand the medium frames aren't going to fit. (7064,7670,etc.)
On the dimensional reference there is only 9.1mm difference between the 179388 and the 179374.
When will the twin scroll housing be available for the 58mm turbine be available? Part Number is :11581009007
Still comes up invalid on BW site.
Don't need or want a 52+lb./min. compressor, but twin scroll, yes.
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Old 11-23-2012, 07:04 PM   #238
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Do mean the small frame twin scroll is too long? (6258,6758,7163)
I fully understand the medium frames aren't going to fit. (7064,7670,etc.)
On the dimensional reference there is only 9.1mm difference between the 179388 and the 179374.
When will the twin scroll housing be available for the 58mm turbine be available? Part Number is :11581009007
Still comes up invalid on BW site.
Don't need or want a 52+lb./min. compressor, but twin scroll, yes.
And it's the twin scroll that's the shorter of the 2.
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Old 11-23-2012, 07:21 PM   #239
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Quote:
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And it's the twin scroll that's the shorter of the 2.
The IWG TS housings are longer than normal GT series turbos by more than an inch
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Old 11-23-2012, 07:45 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post
The IWG TS housings are longer than normal GT series turbos by more than an inch
Yes, but the difference between the single and twin scroll BW B1 frame is exactly 9.1mm.
Thanks.
Bump

Last edited by crobin4; 11-23-2012 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 11-23-2012, 07:53 PM   #241
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And it's the twin scroll that's the shorter of the 2.
No the BW B1 single scroll is slightly shorter than the B1 twin scroll. 9.1mm according to the drawings.
The B2 medium frame is too large to fit "stockish location" in single or twin scroll.
Just looking from clarification from Geoff, as this thread is about a B1 Frame turbo.
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Old 11-24-2012, 06:54 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by crobin4 View Post
No the BW B1 single scroll is slightly shorter than the B1 twin scroll. 9.1mm according to the drawings.
The B2 medium frame is too large to fit "stockish location" in single or twin scroll.
Just looking from clarification from Geoff, as this thread is about a B1 Frame turbo.
I agree that the difference is 9.1mm but according to the 6758 drawings it's the twin scroll that's the shorter of the 2.

http://www.turbodriven.com/files/pdf...RTechPages.pdf

http://www.turbodriven.com/files/pdf...RTechPages.pdf

That was my original point in respect to Geoff's comment about the twin scroll being too long - I can only assume he was refering to the B2 frame turbos. However, looking at the drawings for the 7670, the TS version is also the shorter of the 2 by 5.3mm.

http://www.turbodriven.com/files/pdf...RTechPages.pdf

http://www.turbodriven.com/files/pdf...RTechPages.pdf
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:44 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by Rheid View Post
I agree that the difference is 9.1mm but according to the 6758 drawings it's the twin scroll that's the shorter of the 2.

http://www.turbodriven.com/files/pdf...RTechPages.pdf

http://www.turbodriven.com/files/pdf...RTechPages.pdf

That was my original point in respect to Geoff's comment about the twin scroll being too long - I can only assume he was refering to the B2 frame turbos. However, looking at the drawings for the 7670, the TS version is also the shorter of the 2 by 5.3mm.

http://www.turbodriven.com/files/pdf...RTechPages.pdf

http://www.turbodriven.com/files/pdf...RTechPages.pdf
Oh! My bad, I think the split in the measurement from the centerline of the two front bolt holes on the turbine inlet flange threw me off.
Agreed! Thank You!
I have a bad feeling the people that the people that want the small frame turbos are going to be screwed into the same situation we've always been in. If we make turbine housing small enough to have boost response and boost onset the way it should for the turbo in question, then it's going to be too choked down at the top end for the engine/compressor combo to reach it's potential.
I don't think they have any plans on doing TS turbine housings on the small frame turbos. I've heard hints in several places that it's not going to happen. I REALLY hope this is not the case. I realize they have had (and continue to have) enough problems with the IWG TS housings on the B2 Frames, that they may not want to deal with in the B1 frames, too. Hell, if you don't have 2.0L engine and smaller and have to use a state of the art turbo in a marginal situation you may as well buy a Garrett or a Mitsu Hybrid Turbo. I WILL not buy SS turbo for a 2.5L Engine, period. And I will not spend $3000 on a bolt-on TS Garrett Hybrid. For my needs/wants, I'll go track down a slightly used VF42 or VF56 first.
Rant over, Sorry. More in hoping that Brock(?) at BW sees it or it is relayed, more so than for your guys consumption.
My situation is: I have a 7500 rpm engine and I would rather have it with a 2500-7500 rpm power band, rather than having a 9000 rpm engine with a 4000-9000 rpm power band. Sure the 7500rpm engine isn't going ever make 500wHP wilst having wide powerband. But it will be far more useful and $10,000 dollars less expensive, and still using mostly all factory engineering parts (save for pistons,rings,bolts, and bearings).
What I really want is a 6258 with the TS IWG housing, on a 2.5L engine, should produce the same peak power numbers as a 6758 while keeping the spool and boost response of the SS and having more area under the curve. The 6758 with the SS IWG Housing is border line useless on a 2.5L but looks good on a 2.0L. The EFR 7163, 7063,and 7670 could end the GT35r fad. I just don't need that much power.
Thinks for listening, guys!
Needed to get it of my chest.
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:13 AM   #244
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Oh! My bad, I think the split in the measurement from the centerline of the two front bolt holes on the turbine inlet flange threw me off.
Agreed! Thank You!
I have a bad feeling the people that the people that want the small frame turbos are going to be screwed into the same situation we've always been in. If we make turbine housing small enough to have boost response and boost onset the way it should for the turbo in question, then it's going to be too choked down at the top end for the engine/compressor combo to reach it's potential.
I don't think they have any plans on doing TS turbine housings on the small frame turbos. I've heard hints in several places that it's not going to happen. I REALLY hope this is not the case. I realize they have had (and continue to have) enough problems with the IWG TS housings on the B2 Frames, that they may not want to deal with in the B1 frames, too. Hell, if you don't have 2.0L engine and smaller and have to use a state of the art turbo in a marginal situation you may as well buy a Garrett or a Mitsu Hybrid Turbo. I WILL not buy SS turbo for a 2.5L Engine, period. And I will not spend $3000 on a bolt-on TS Garrett Hybrid. For my needs/wants, I'll go track down a slightly used VF42 or VF56 first.
Rant over, Sorry. More in hoping that Brock(?) at BW sees it or it is relayed, more so than for your guys consumption.
My situation is: I have a 7500 rpm engine and I would rather have it with a 2500-7500 rpm power band, rather than having a 9000 rpm engine with a 4000-9000 rpm power band. Sure the 7500rpm engine isn't going ever make 500wHP wilst having wide powerband. But it will be far more useful and $10,000 dollars less expensive, and still using mostly all factory engineering parts (save for pistons,rings,bolts, and bearings).
What I really want is a 6258 with the TS IWG housing, on a 2.5L engine, should produce the same peak power numbers as a 6758 while keeping the spool and boost response of the SS and having more area under the curve. The 6758 with the SS IWG Housing is border line useless on a 2.5L but looks good on a 2.0L. The EFR 7163, 7063,and 7670 could end the GT35r fad. I just don't need that much power.
Thinks for listening, guys!
Needed to get it of my chest.
Just found a press release from Borg Warner dated October 24, 2012 in which they specifically state that the new EFR 7163 will be available with optional T4 TS housing. End of first paragraph on page 2:

http://www.borgwarner.com/en/News/Pr...EMA%20Show.pdf
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:47 AM   #245
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Just found a press release from Borg Warner dated October 24, 2012 in which they specifically state that the new EFR 7163 will be available with optional T4 TS housing. End of first paragraph on page 2:

http://www.borgwarner.com/en/News/Pr...EMA%20Show.pdf

Thanks!
They may actually do it with the 7163...eventually.
They had P/Ns for the IWG TS 6258 and 6758,too.
I expected that when production ramped up again, that we would see an availability time frame. But that has come and gone by three months.
Sorry if I sound whiney, but I been waiting on the edge of my seat for the 58mm TS IWG for almost exactly a year now since I stumbled on the EFR series.
I immediately recognized what the EFR series represented in turbo technology. I've been perhaps "geeking out" about it ever since.
Imagine what they will be like when they start playing with the compressors again and integrate the mixed flow turbines across the line.
The face of turbo technology will be changed forever...this one of those Audi and World Rally moments. Some just don't see it yet.
For the record, I don't work for nor am I affiliated with BW in anyway.
If I were, I wouldn't be bitching as I would have weasled my way into a prototype TS 6258 or 6758 by now.
I have an email out to BW about TS 58mm housing options, if I get a response and am allowed to talk about it I'll let know.
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:13 PM   #246
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Thanks!
They may actually do it with the 7163...eventually.
They had P/Ns for the IWG TS 6258 and 6758,too.
I expected that when production ramped up again, that we would see an availability time frame. But that has come and gone by three months.
Sorry if I sound whiney, but I been waiting on the edge of my seat for the 58mm TS IWG for almost exactly a year now since I stumbled on the EFR series.
I immediately recognized what the EFR series represented in turbo technology. I've been perhaps "geeking out" about it ever since.
Imagine what they will be like when they start playing with the compressors again and integrate the mixed flow turbines across the line.
The face of turbo technology will be changed forever...this one of those Audi and World Rally moments. Some just don't see it yet.
For the record, I don't work for nor am I affiliated with BW in anyway.
If I were, I wouldn't be bitching as I would have weasled my way into a prototype TS 6258 or 6758 by now.
I have an email out to BW about TS 58mm housing options, if I get a response and am allowed to talk about it I'll let know.
Seems like we're on the same page. I've been waiting for well over a year for them to release a TS 6758 after seeing the part numbers listed for it. I'm sure a SS 7163 would do the job but really a bit more than I want or need.

I'm ever hopeful that BW will realize that there is a demand for TS B1 turbos and bring them to market sooner rather than later.
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Old 11-24-2012, 04:37 PM   #247
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Seems like we're on the same page. I've been waiting for well over a year for them to release a TS 6758 after seeing the part numbers listed for it. I'm sure a SS 7163 would do the job but really a bit more than I want or need.

I'm ever hopeful that BW will realize that there is a demand for TS B1 turbos and bring them to market sooner rather than later.
That's cool, I'm glad not an island of 1 as is usual...perhaps we are an island of 2.
Hopefully, we can find a real concise answer, soon.
I've thought about finding out a way of adapting the Garrett GT28 TS T3 Flange housing. Would require some machine work and a spacer to get it to sit over the wheel properly. However, by the time that was done and an EWG were purchased and fabbed, it would cost almost exactly the same as the Litchfield/Turbo Dynamics TS turbos. Although, one of those with a GTX wheel would be nice. In fact, when they were developed, I believe they were best smaller turbos for a Subie that one could hope to buy. That was before the EFR series. Development for the Litchfield stuff began in '08 I believe.
From what I understand, BW has always planned to expand the EFR series and provide options as time goes on. I'm surprised that the EFR7163 has come along so soon. It is VERY nice. A little bigger than I need, as well. The 6758 was about my limit, but the SS Housing is too small for the 2.5L above 6000rpm. The SS EFR7163 sounds pretty good from the couple of things I've seen so far. I'll find the turbine and compressor maps interesting when made available to the public.
My prediction is that on the 2.5L those pushing the limit of the compressor will benefit from the TS Housing and those aiming for 475- 525 HP at the crank will be best suited with one of the SS housings, if they have two sizes of those. It will probably be their most popular turbo and would justify the development of more housing options than we currently see.
I almost expect if the Indy series drops the 6758, then it will be discontinued. Just pure speculation. Probably pure BS. Don't get riled up.
Leave that to me.
Hopefully, more transparency will develop. I feel we are getting the hears what we have bit, and I'm OK love what I see, but don't see exactly what I need. What else are we getting and when?
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:22 PM   #248
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Paul! Great results! I expect 480-490wHP and ~520wTQ on corn is just around the corner for you! Glad you like it.
Sorry for the thread jack.

Last edited by crobin4; 11-24-2012 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:43 PM   #249
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so updates on release at all?
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:58 AM   #250
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The 7163 should be a pretty nice piece for alot of those that waited. The 6758's look like a great mid-range turbo too, and are now available!!!
Hopefully there are tons of dynos coming so guys can see what they can really do.
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