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Old 11-26-2012, 05:52 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Report: Cadillac CTS sales nosedive as buyers look at the new ATS



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GM is hoping that the new 2013 Cadillac ATS will steal sales away from its German rivals including the BMW 3 Series, Mercedes-Benz C-Class and the Audi A4 – however it seems like the ATS is stealing sales away from Cadillac’s very own CTS.

Check out the Top 10 things you need to know about the 2013 Cadillac ATS.

Cadillac CTS sales have apparently nosedived since the launch of the ATS – sinking 40 percent in October from 2011. According to Edmunds.com, the CTS is one of the most cross-shopped vehicles among ATS shoppers.

In the wake of the sales decline GM will start cutting back on CTS production next year.

“We planned for the ATS to take some CTS customers out of the market who otherwise would have seen,” said Cadillac’s U.S. sales chief Chase Hawkins. “We definitely are going to be producing fewer CTSs next year to create some of that space for ATS.”
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:44 AM   #2
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Well, let's go ahead and make the ATS-V now.
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:54 AM   #3
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:33 AM   #4
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The fact that there isn't much difference in price, doesn't help matters any.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:11 PM   #5
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Well, let's go ahead and make the ATS-V now.
It is coming, but I expect we'll see the C7 Corvette first. GM won't likely detract from the interest in the new Corvette engine and driveline by releasing it in the ATS-V first.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:23 PM   #6
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CTS buyers aren't going to end up in an ATS. It's a nimble little car, but WAY to small to be anyone's choice over a CTS.

First hand experience, we just got one as a rental for the next few weeks while the wife's tribeca is being repaired from hitting a deer.

I literally feel claustrophobic in the ATS. I will say the CUE system is pretty sweet though!
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:09 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Nick View Post
CTS buyers aren't going to end up in an ATS. It's a nimble little car, but WAY to small to be anyone's choice over a CTS.

First hand experience, we just got one as a rental for the next few weeks while the wife's tribeca is being repaired from hitting a deer.

I literally feel claustrophobic in the ATS. I will say the CUE system is pretty sweet though!
I disagree. There are plenty of people looking for a small RWD sporty car that settle for the CTS despite it's size - as evidenced by the information in the article.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:25 PM   #8
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Correct. There are people that want American luxury, and don't want FWD/Buick or Lincoln TownCars.

Caddy has been the only real game in town with the CTS being the only one.

Now that ATS is here, they can downsize and get better gas mileage.

--kC
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:56 PM   #9
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Isn't it ironic after Caddy's efforts to go small with the CTS, used to elicit so much doubt from journalists/analysts, given the ages-ago failures of small Cadillacs.

Now, the smaller, the better.

It makes a big difference whether the small car is just a scaled-down version of land-yacht technology, or if it's this sweet spot of lightness, handling, and efficiency as a small car should be.
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:31 PM   #10
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I disagree. There are plenty of people looking for a small RWD sporty car that settle for the CTS despite it's size - as evidenced by the information in the article.
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Correct. There are people that want American luxury, and don't want FWD/Buick or Lincoln TownCars.

Caddy has been the only real game in town with the CTS being the only one.

Now that ATS is here, they can downsize and get better gas mileage.

--kC
Sorry... what I meant to say was anyone looking for the sport/size of the CTS won't likely pick up an ATS, but people who want the smaller sportier cousin... makes sense.

I wouldn't want anything smaller... better gas mileage might be nice, but I'd lose to much in the trade. The ATS trunk is small... like WRX (plus a little) small.
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:54 PM   #11
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ATS /v wagon?

Droooool.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:44 PM   #12
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Wonder if Cadillac makes more money per vehicle on CTS or ATS.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:10 AM   #13
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Wonder if Cadillac makes more money per vehicle on CTS or ATS.
Depends on your accounting since ATS is newer
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:49 AM   #14
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As big as the CTS is, I found it to be lacking the room you'd expect it to have.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:03 AM   #15
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ATS /v wagon?

Droooool.
Haven't seen one. Actually, I haven't seen any ATS wagons. Doesn't mean they aren't in the works as a future model though.

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Wonder if Cadillac makes more money per vehicle on CTS or ATS.
I don't know if it's still true, but historically GM has lost money on all their cars just to be competitive in the market. Their manufacturing costs (labor) are higher than their competitors thanks to old UAW contracts that they can't seem to get rid of. GM makes up the difference and sees profit from crossovers and trucks.

I don't know if you can ask which one they make more money on. It might be a case of which one loses less . I would expect the ATS will cost more for the moment just because it is an all new platform. The tools and any new capital investment for manufacturing and assembly hasn't been paid off through years of rolling costs into the price of vehicles.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:42 AM   #16
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The ATS trunk is small... like WRX (plus a little) small.
Closer to the last generation Legacy sedan, even, not as big as a current WRX. Still looks like a fun car, though, if you wanted a bit of sporty and luxury along with it.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:45 AM   #17
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I don't know if it's still true, but historically GM has lost money on all their cars just to be competitive in the market. Their manufacturing costs (labor) are higher than their competitors thanks to old UAW contracts that they can't seem to get rid of.
Not true. Old GM had ~78/hr in labor costs, New GM has ~56/hr in labor costs. About the same as Toyota.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:12 AM   #18
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You can knock over $12,000 off end of year CTS models if you go to right dealer and know how to negotiate.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:05 PM   #19
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The fact that there isn't much difference in price, doesn't help matters any.
Umm...wouldn't this make people opt for more car usually? I find I'm always in the minority when I prefer smaller cars. Most luxury car buyers, even those who want sports sedans, don't think the CTS is too big.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:26 PM   #20
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Death of the V wagon... not really surprising though, but has implications that an ATS wagon will likely never happen.

http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2012/11/...eaven-7711776/

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Another example of a great wagon being killed off before its time due to lackluster sales was the Dodge Magnum, a favorite only among a small group of enthusiasts. With the upcoming death of the CTS wagon, chances are now extremely unlikely that an ATS wagon will be offered in the US, though it reportedly hasn't been ruled out for Europe.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:56 PM   #21
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BOOOOOooo!@!!!!

--kC
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:44 AM   #22
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Dogonit I like wagons...
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:10 PM   #23
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Not true. Old GM had ~78/hr in labor costs, New GM has ~56/hr in labor costs. About the same as Toyota.
GM is still struggling to be competitive with their $56/hr when most of their competition is around $47/hr. Not a huge difference and certainly better than what it's been. Still doesn't fix the fact that they are losing money on most of the cars they sell. I hope that turns around once the years worth of new development and cutting out costs makes it's way to market with newer vehicles over the next few years. To rid themselves of the overhead and built-up losses they need to design their way out of the old, expensive platforms and processes. That can't happen overnight in such a large, global company.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:28 PM   #24
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Oh GM, always your own worst enemy.
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Old 12-20-2012, 04:51 PM   #25
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The CTS wagon has a higher base price than the SRX crossover. Given that many buyers already prefer crossovers, it's not terribly surprising that the wagon didn't sell well. Even within its own brand it was pushed into an impossibly small niche.

It was also priced higher than the 3-series wagon and A4 Avant. Even though the CTS is a bit larger, I would imagine those two cars stole a lot of its sales as well.
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