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Old 11-17-2012, 07:10 AM   #251
Zeeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
You couldn't have in anyway. You get better mpg than I do, and you have a 5 speed. At least you get close to advertised. What is the "recommended speed for the best mpg" in the 5 speed, as you say? It's about 30 mph in the cvt I think...
Maybe, but you already told us you can get 36mpg at 65mph.

Keep on complaining....
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:14 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
Maybe, but you already told us you can get 36mpg at 65mph.

Keep on complaining....
That's the difference between you and me. I believe in reality. A test run at a constant speed on a flat and level road has nothing to do with reality.
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:28 AM   #253
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That's the difference between you and me. I believe in reality. A test run at a constant speed on a flat and level road has nothing to do with reality.
You are absolutely correct. No one I know has ever driven on the highway using their cruise control to maintain a steady speed.

But to comport to reality, the reality that your HWY MPG number is made up of, you can change your speed regularly, as long as you do not exceed 60mph and average 48mph. Have fun with that!
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:43 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
You are absolutely correct. No one I know has ever driven on the highway using their cruise control to maintain a steady speed.

But to comport to reality, the reality that your HWY MPG number is made up of, you can change your speed regularly, as long as you do not exceed 60mph and average 48mph. Have fun with that!
I wouldn't live too long on the highways out here doing that...
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:31 AM   #255
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You're lucky to get even 31.9MPG at 75. My car averages around 28.9 on the highway. And around the city...don't even.

http://www.fuelly.com/driver/danstheman7/impreza

Around the city my car does terribly. Now... I didn't buy the car because of MPG, so i'm not going to complain too much. Just trying to give another MPG example for you guys.

Wish I could get 33 though. I'd be more than satisfied with a number like that, even if I had to go a little slower than my average 75.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:41 AM   #256
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You're lucky to get even 31.9MPG at 75. My car averages around 28.9 on the highway. And around the city...don't even.

http://www.fuelly.com/driver/danstheman7/impreza

Around the city my car does terribly. Now... I didn't buy the car because of MPG, so i'm not going to complain too much. Just trying to give another MPG example for you guys.

Wish I could get 33 though. I'd be more than satisfied with a number like that, even if I had to go a little slower than my average 75.
The cvt has problem obtaining relatively close to its EPA numbers when compared with other cars, according to Consumer Reports (CR) which does independent testing, and in my experience as well. The EPA numbers are given to the EPA by Subaru, and are even more exxagerated than the Kia or Hyundai, which just got busted for that as you are probably aware. Some here say the EPA number is not for comparison, but the EPA clearly says it is. When comparing the EPA numbers when Subaru does the testing to the CR values vs. the EPA to CR of other vehicles in the same range, the Subaru numbers are two standard deviations below the distribution of the others. The hyenas here claim that doesn't matter though...

If your time is worth 7 or 8 doillars per hour it might be worth it to slow down, but I would have to slow down to 60 or so to get the highway 36 mpg - unlike my Corolla which is also rated at 36 highway, and gets 40 mpg at 75. Not really "comparable".

Yours will get better though - a little.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:50 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post


When you do your lawsuit, I want in, look at the horrendous mpg I get at 75, I know it is above the recommended speed for the best mpg and I shouldn't complain, but it is completely unacceptable, others get better than epa mpg in other cars, so this one should too. My mpg display does read 3.3% high, so I am only getting 31.9 mpg at this speed with no wind
I hope you're being sarcastic...
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:20 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
You are absolutely correct. No one I know has ever driven on the highway using their cruise control to maintain a steady speed.

But to comport to reality, the reality that your HWY MPG number is made up of, you can change your speed regularly, as long as you do not exceed 60mph and average 48mph. Have fun with that!
You are full of ???? I drove hwy 5 from Sacramento to LA and back on cruise control 95% of the time. Best I got was 29-31MPG avg 70MPH but that was with 4 people and 2 large suit cases in my 2012 CVT. About 800 miles round trip.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:14 PM   #259
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You are full of ???? I drove hwy 5 from Sacramento to LA and back on cruise control 95% of the time. Best I got was 29-31MPG avg 70MPH but that was with 4 people and 2 large suit cases in my 2012 CVT. About 800 miles round trip.
I hope you stayed in the right lane. That reach from Tracy to Bakersfield is the most interesting micro-culture I've ever seen. Right lane typically at the speed as you say, left lane basically following the car in front no matter how fast. Then, when the relatively medium speed traffic in the right lane comes up on a slow vehicle, the left lane accordions as first the medium speed traffic gets into the left lane, then the really high speed traffic which sees this coming gets in the right lane and dodges back into the left lane at the last possible moment, exacerbating the accordion effect.

Of course, there's nothing else to do on that drive...
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:36 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Angelus911 View Post
I hope you're being sarcastic...
obviously
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:05 PM   #261
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obviously
That's all he has left...
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:18 PM   #262
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That's all he has left...
no, not really. you can achieve the rated MPG if you slow down to a number faster than what the EPA recommends for best MPG (they still recommend 55-60mph), according to your magical scanguage (never have read about you calculating your MPG with actual numbers and odometer error) you can achieve 36mpg at 65mph.

i could provide links, but honestly there is no point. forbes published an article on 11/06/12 that essentially states the testing is flawed and ultimately it comes down to the individual as "your mileage may vary". these are AWD vehicles, they are heavier, they are not that aerodynamic, but according to you that shouldn't matter because in your world physics don't exist, but that is what the article is getting at, there are way too many factors to take the BIG BOLD number as a GUARANTEE, it is not and never will be.

ok, 1 link,
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/guides/feg2012.pdf

right on page 1 it goes into explaining everything i just stated, and it continues into page 2......

Quote:
So, please remember that the EPA ratings
are a useful tool for comparing vehicles
when car buying, but they may not
accurately predict the MPG you will get.
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:47 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post

36 mpg at 60,
31 mpg at 70,
26 mpg at 80.


/end thread
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:48 PM   #264
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/end thread
but it can't be! my 2004 Corrola gets 127mpg at 95mph!
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:26 PM   #265
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no, not really. you can achieve the rated MPG if you slow down to a number faster than what the EPA recommends for best MPG (they still recommend 55-60mph), according to your magical scanguage (never have read about you calculating your MPG with actual numbers and odometer error) you can achieve 36mpg at 65mph.

i could provide links, but honestly there is no point. forbes published an article on 11/06/12 that essentially states the testing is flawed and ultimately it comes down to the individual as "your mileage may vary". these are AWD vehicles, they are heavier, they are not that aerodynamic, but according to you that shouldn't matter because in your world physics don't exist, but that is what the article is getting at, there are way too many factors to take the BIG BOLD number as a GUARANTEE, it is not and never will be.

ok, 1 link,
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/guides/feg2012.pdf

right on page 1 it goes into explaining everything i just stated, and it continues into page 2......
Sorry, either you linked to the wrong page or you are imagining things. The link does not say the best speed for mpg is 55-60 - not even the EPA would say that, because cars get better mpg at slower speeds than that. Nor does it say AWD vehicles should get less mpg in the real world than an equally rated 2wd car. If they are rated the same they are rated the same. For example compare the AWD version of another car with the 2WD version of the same car:

e.g. the Chevy Equinox, Auto, 2.4 liter.
AWD:20/29/23
2WD:22/32/26.

Finally, you misread what you quoted.
"EPA ratings are a useful tool for comparing vehicles when car buying"

If that was true, Consumer Reports would not show that cars getting equivalent real world mpg are basically clumped into two groups: The Impreza which gets less than the EPA rated highway mpg for its independent test, and the rest that get more.

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Old 11-27-2012, 10:14 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
Sorry, either you linked to the wrong page or you are imagining things. The link does not say the best speed for mpg is 55-60 - not even the EPA would say that, because cars get better mpg at slower speeds than that. Nor does it say AWD vehicles should get less mpg in the real world than an equally rated 2wd car. If they are rated the same they are rated the same. For example compare the AWD version of another car with the 2WD version of the same car:

e.g. the Chevy Equinox, Auto, 2.4 liter.
AWD:20/29/23
2WD:22/32/26.

Finally, you misread what you quoted.
"EPA ratings are a useful tool for comparing vehicles when car buying"



If that was true, Consumer Reports would not show that cars getting equivalent real world mpg are basically clumped into two groups: The Impreza which gets less than the EPA rated highway mpg for its independent test, and the rest that get more.

way to go, you chopped up my quotation so you can misquote it out of context.

here let me misquote the most important part for you

Quote:
but they may not
accurately predict the MPG you will get.
and your right, they don't specifically say 55-60mph, they actually say 50mph is the best for fuel economy (and their testing is at an average of 48mph)

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/drivehabits.shtml

or maybe this one for testing http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/how_tested.shtml
it says they use exhaust emissions to actually measure fuel usage, so on a low emission vehicle the testing will be further flawed than it is.

but still you can achieve 36mpg in your car if you slow down, so you have no case either in court or for warranty purposes.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:45 PM   #267
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you can achieve 36mpg in your car if you slow down, so you have no case either in court or for warranty purposes.
First off, I have never said anything about court or "warranty purposes" so I would appreciate it if you would quit putting words in my mouth. Oh wait, that's how you've kept this conversation going - talk about misrepresenting, you're way beyond that.

Of course I can achieve 36 mpg. That, again, is where you have lost touch with reality. I can get 45 or 50 mpg if I go slow enough. However, to go slow enough to get 36 mpg on a real road would be hazardous to myself and others - and you keep conveniently ignoring the fact that the cars you yourself mentioned get significantly better mpg at the same EPA rating. "Comparison" remember? It doesn't *compare*.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:59 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
and you keep conveniently ignoring the fact that the cars you yourself mentioned get significantly better mpg at the same EPA rating. "Comparison" remember? It doesn't *compare*.
it does compare, but they issue this disclaimer
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/why_differ.shtml
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:10 AM   #269
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it does compare, but they issue this disclaimer
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/why_differ.shtml
Yep, right there it says: "the EPA ratings are a useful tool for comparing the fuel economies of different vehicles".
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:19 AM   #270
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First off, I have never said anything about court or "warranty purposes" so I would appreciate it if you would quit putting words in my mouth.
This statement would have a lot more credibility if you were not here posting on the Warranty Issues and SOA Problems forum about gathering owners together to file some sort of warranty complaint for compensation for the 'misrepresented' EPA HWY window sticker number that Subaru somehow gamed the EPA testing to achieve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
Of course I can achieve 36 mpg. That, again, is where you have lost touch with reality. I can get 45 or 50 mpg if I go slow enough. However, to go slow enough to get 36 mpg on a real road would be hazardous to myself and others - and you keep conveniently ignoring the fact that the cars you yourself mentioned get significantly better mpg at the same EPA rating. "Comparison" remember? It doesn't *compare*.
The EPA ratings are not guarantees, they are the EPA's attempt to provide the average driver driving the average speed an estimate of what to expect.

I trust you that in Texas the speed limit in some places is now 85mph. That is not representative of the rest of the country.

Even with the higher speed roads that exist, I'd bet the average speed limit across the highways of the United States is not higher than 60mph. You claim to be the math guy, so look it up.

I'm guessing what SOA's response will be when they hear from you about how when you drive an average speed of over 70mph, and get lousy HWY mileage, that it reflects some sort of misrepresentation on their part.

Please remember to tell them about how your personal scangauge shows 36mpg at 65mph, representing real proof of their faking the EPA testing data.

My guess is they will contribute to the Texas Secession Fund, after they finish shaking their heads and laughing at you.

Last edited by Zeeper; 11-28-2012 at 07:39 AM.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:46 AM   #271
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You continue to attack your own straw man.

I guess you will never know the difference between what a particular individual driver gets (which is not at all what I'm talking about) and the difference in mpg between the EPA rating and an independent analysis like Consumer Reports.

Most drivers with cvt's see that the mpg when compared to the EPA rating vs. the same info on other cars is horrendous and intuitively know the 2.0 cvt is an outlier, as I've shown a couple of times.

Your continued attempt to bring up anecdotal information when you don't even *have* a cvt is ludicrous. So why are you even *in* this conversation when you obviously can't possibly know anything about it? You have a 5 speed. Go talk about 5 speeds.

You continue to wallow in and attempt to spread your own ignorance.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:05 AM   #272
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Yup, I love to wallow.

When did you get access to all the Consumer Reports test data? All you've seen is their end numbers.

You will need more than that to establish some sort of compensation from Subaru.

Do you think Consumer Reports will jump on your bandwagon? They haven't complained at all about the MPG's, in fact they stated they were impressed with the MPG's returned with this AWD car.

Ouch.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:25 PM   #273
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Yep, right there it says: "the EPA ratings are a useful tool for comparing the fuel economies of different vehicles".
wow, just wow. you are an expert at takings things completely out of context and not reading everything.

Quote:
Why Does Fuel Economy Vary?

Windows Media Video (11.1 MB)
Quicktime Video (12.9 MB)
Text Version
EPA has improved its methods for estimating fuel economy, but your mileage will still vary.

EPA tests are designed to reflect "typical" driving conditions and driver behavior, but several factors can affect MPG significantly:

How & Where You Drive
Vehicle Condition & Maintenance
Fuel Variations
Vehicle Variations
Engine Break-In
Therefore, the EPA ratings are a useful tool for comparing the fuel economies of different vehicles but may not accurately predict the average MPG you will get.

To find out what you can do to improve the fuel economy of your car, see Driving More Efficiently and Keeping Your Car in Shape.
there i quoted the entire page for you, you picked one tiny sentence that means absolute **** when not read in context.

and here is the numbers off fuelly, their averages beat even consumer reports testing. but that won't matter to you because it does not support your conspiracy theories
http://www.fuelly.com/car/subaru/impreza/2012/hatchback

and here is consumer reports mpg complaints about the impreza

Quote:
The Impreza’s gas mileage is impressive for an AWD car, but the CVT was overly aggressive with engine braking when going downhill and often held engine revs too high, resulting in added engine noise.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/m...view/index.htm

Last edited by flyboy1100; 11-28-2012 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:49 PM   #274
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I thought the new imprezas were on demand awd, meaning they run in 2wd mode until slip is detected. The article i read stated subaru did this to improve fuel economy.
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:03 PM   #275
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I thought the new imprezas were on demand awd, meaning they run in 2wd mode until slip is detected. The article i read stated subaru did this to improve fuel economy.
Well the 5speeds are always 50/50 with a viscous coupler.

The CVT is like most other Subaru automatics, with electronically controlled clutches to direct power. Estimates vary from 90/10 to 60/40 front to rear power distribution in normal conditions.

My hunch is 90% front, because the system works so well there is no need to always send power to the rear wheels in non-slippery conditions, and obviously their goal with the new impreza was to maximize the MPG's, which is why in Texas you can see 36mpg at 65mph on the highway. Impressive!

Last edited by Zeeper; 11-28-2012 at 03:52 PM.
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