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Old 11-10-2012, 12:22 PM   #676
yman
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I'd probably try them over star specs but re11s have pretty good DD life in them. If I was still autocrossing though it'd be a no brainer if the rs3s are cheaper.
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:39 PM   #677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96accord
Why are the Invos trash? I have them.. used them for this summer since my RE01's were done.
I went through 13 tires to get 4 that did not go out of round after 2-3 months of use. Eventually discount got sick of me calling/filling out warranty claims/sending in road force balance results from the invo and just sent me star specs. They even admitted that the invo had a belting issue that would cause vibrations.

Once my dun ops are done I will drink the rs3 koolaid since the price of starspecs went sharply up about 24months ago.
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:40 PM   #678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kos View Post
RS3s are amazing. It's like an R-compound with a street tire UTQG.

Ran them this season and have had zero complaints, other than we couldn't use them at SLB on Wednesday

I'd put it this way when comparing RS3s to Star Specs, AD08s, RE11s: Why pay more money per tire, to go slower on a track. They are great bang for the buck tires.
This is good to hear. I liked my Star Specs, but had nothing to compare them too except the old style Falkin 615's (non-K) and they were way better. I had a set of slicks too that were awesome, but that's a different animal completely. But the price of the Stars is wild. This settles it, R-S3's it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yman View Post
I'd probably try them over star specs but re11s have pretty good DD life in them. If I was still autocrossing though it'd be a no brainer if the rs3s are cheaper.
Fortunately, this is a fun car and not a DD so tire life span isn't a concern. If I only get 10,000 miles, so be it.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:07 PM   #679
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OK, I had just a little bit of time to work on some things while the wife was sleeping this morning before I had to clean the house.

Earlier this week, I was able to stop by my machinist and pick up some parts that he made for me based on designs I gave him. The parts were to adapt the USDM throttle body and fuel fails to the JDM V8 intake manifold that came with my EJ207.

For the throttle body, there were several differences between the JDM manifold and the USDM WRX/STi manifold, but they all centered around the fact that the USDM WRX (06+) and STi (04+) are 32-bit ECU's with a drive-by-wire (DBW) throttle body. The EJ207 through at least Version 9 uses a drive-by-cable (DBC) throttle body on a 16-bit ECU, much like the 02-05 WRX. These two systems have some pretty big physical differences both on the throttle bodies and on the intake manifold. The differences are big enough that they two are not interchangeable without some serious work.

I have to keep the DBW TB because of my 32-bit ECU, that was non-negotiable. So my choices were to use the DBW intake manifold from my WRX or an STi, or do some custom adaptation work on the JDM intake manifold to make it plug and play. I chose the latter option because the JDM intake manifold is a straight runner (no TGV's) compared to the USDM manifolds which have the secondary TGV castings. The JDM unit is a lot cleaner and leaves way more space for inlets and hoses and things.

You can see in this picture how much more bulk there is with the USDM TGV manifold on the right versus the JDM unit on the left. And that's without all the extra stuff cut off the JDM manifold like I did.


Anyway, the problems with the DBW TB are as follows:
  • The DBW TB motor assembly protrudes beyond the mounting plane which means it hits the JDM manifold.
  • The JDM manifold has a cut/open section for the idle air controller on the DBC TB. This would leak with the DBC TB. Like a lot. The DBW TB doesn't use/need this separate hole.
  • The DBW TB uses M6 bolts, the DBC manifold needs M8.
  • The DBW TB mounting hold spacing is different than the DBC TB (holes don't line up).

Here is a picture of the USDM DBW intake manifold TB mounting area. You can compare it with the red JDM STi manifold in the picture above and see the differences. Notice how the USDM manifold is raised to allow the DBW TB to not contact the manifold.


A picture of the DBW TB overhang:

Last edited by kpluiten; 11-10-2012 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:31 PM   #680
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So with both throttle bodies and both manifolds in front of me, I sat down and used CAD to think up an adapter solution. I could have chosen to have the JDM manifold welded up or modified to work, but I really wanted a plug and play solution that required no welding/cutting/grinding of the manifold or the throttle body. My thinking was that this solution might be useful for other doing this swap and perhaps I might sell this solution in the future. For those curious in the alternative, Amroof had his manifold permanently adapted by welding on a new mounting plate and it turned out really nice.

This is what I came up with: A two adapter plate method. In a nut shell, one plate mimics the hole pattern of the JDM manifold and the other plate mimics the hole patter n of the USDM DBW TB. The two plates share coming holes between them to join the two together. Together, they provide enough offset to prevent the DBW TB from hitting the manifold.

I also designed the plates so that the two could be mounting in several different orientations relative to one another so that the TB could be clocked for various turbo/fitments depending on setup (it's not uncommon for the DBW guys to rotate their TB 180 degrees for larger turbos).

The setup uses factory gaskets for all three joints with only minimal modification to the middle gasket between the two plates (adding 8 holes). This ensures a leak free system without expensive custom gaskets or messy sealant.

Here is the base plate that attaches to the JDM manifold:


Bolts added (low profile hex key bolts):


Plate lifted off the table so you can see how the bolts fit in the counter-bores. At this point, the plate would be mounted to the JDM manifold, but mine is at the powder coater, so use your imagination:


Gasket for sealing between the two plates. I used a DBW TB gasket and added 8 holes for the next set of bolts (the radial pattern around the center hole).


Top plate added. This plate mimics the hole pattern of the DBW TB (outer four holes).


Bolts added to fix the two plates together. Notice how the two plates could be roatate or clocked at 45 degree increments relative to each other.


A DBW TB gasket installed to seal between the TB and the adapter:


DBW TB installed:

(Sorry for the bad picture)

Another shot. I made the TB plate smaller so that there would be no issues plugging in the sensor plug. But the manifold plat needed to be larger/longer like that to cover and block off the secondary idle air controller passage on the JDM manifold:

Last edited by kpluiten; 11-10-2012 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:35 PM   #681
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Here is a shot from the intake manifold side. Note the blocked of idle air passage.


Here you can see the difference in the bolt mounting patterns and sizes between the DBW and DBC systems. It's light, but enough to make it a headache! and the DBC TB's holes are not square, but rather a rectangular array just to make things that much more difficult.

Gaskets overlayed. The holes line up better on the gaskets because they are all oversized. This isn't a true representation of how off the holes really are.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:04 PM   #682
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I had a friend with access to a 3D printer who was nice enough to print out some models so I could test fit the parts before sending them to the machine shop. And it's a good thing too because I found a few measurement errors and fitment issues.



Also, I could have easily made these parts myself as I have a lot of experience on basic machine shop tools, but work has been super busy with no time to spend in the machine shop and they kind of discourage that sort of thing anyway. As a result, I found a machinist who works out of his garage and charges a fraction of what the shops charge because his overhead is super low. Still, to save a bit more money, I opted to do the thread tapping myself to save an hour or two in labor. This is easily done at home.

The key to threading anything is to be steady and gentle. Do not force the tap. Doing so will probably break it off in the work piece. Lots of lubricant helps prolong the life of the tap and reduce friction. There are nice lubes for this purpose, but I just use ATF because it's sitting around. Also, make sure your work piece is firmly secured to prevent snapping the tap or tapping it crooked/ovalized. Aluminum is generally a good material to start with.





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Old 11-10-2012, 08:26 PM   #683
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The next problem with the Version 8 EJ207 intake manifold is that the USDM fuel rails do not fit. Because it is a straight runner, TGV-less manifold, the fuel rails mount much lower on the manifold. I think it's similar to the 2.5i/RS manifolds, but I'm not certain. I could have used the OEM fuel rails that came with the motor, but I had a set of Turbo XS rails sitting around and I thought it would be fun to make them work.

Using this photo again, you can see the differences in the two mounting positions of the fuel rails:


So, just as with the throttle body adapter, I sat down in front of the TV with both sets of rails and both manifolds and CAD'd up a solution in the form of an adapter bracket.

This was V1, 3D printed:


And it was 100% wrong. Oops. Thank got for free 3D printing. After another CAD session and some time with the calipers and cardboard templates, I came up with V2.

The lower holes will bolt to the manifold. The hex key bolt holes are counter-bored and low profile bolts are use so that they sit below the TXS fuel rail.








Again, my manifold is at the powder coater, so use you imagination.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:36 PM   #684
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And lastly, because I forgot to post these pictures before, here are some shots of a neat fitting I found in the Summit catalog: it's a fuel hard line to AN adapter. It works with the stock Subaru hard lines into the bay and replaces the frustrating factory quick connects or the conventional hose and hose clamp method. They are double oring'd to prevent leaks.

Lube up the hard line a bit to protect the orings from damage and push the fitting on. It should be a bit tight at the orings compress:


Push it until it stops:


The you thread in this part which locks the fitting in place using the flare on the hard line:


Completed:
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:27 PM   #685
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Originally Posted by KP View Post
I'm really happy for you, and I'ma let you finish. But this thing had one of the best build threads of all times.

This.
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:41 PM   #686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluiten View Post
And lastly, because I forgot to post these pictures before, here are some shots of a neat fitting I found in the Summit catalog: it's a fuel hard line to AN adapter. It works with the stock Subaru hard lines into the bay and replaces the frustrating factory quick connects or the conventional hose and hose clamp method. They are double oring'd to prevent leaks.
Oooh these are pretty cool! Good find Ken!
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:48 PM   #687
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^yeah those fittings are rad. Post up the part number for those things.
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:15 AM   #688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kos View Post
Oooh these are pretty cool! Good find Ken!
Quote:
Originally Posted by djelly84 View Post
^yeah those fittings are rad. Post up the part number for those things.
They are made by Russell Performance. Here is the information:

Brand:Russell Performance
Manufacturer's Part Number:644113
Part Type:Fuel Line Adapter Fittings
Product Line:Russell Push-On EFI Fittings

UPC:087133929910
Fitting Attachment 1:Male threads
Fitting Size 1:-6 AN
Fitting Attachment 2:Female quick-connect
Fitting Size 2:5/16 in.
Fitting Angle:Straight
Gauge Port:No
Fitting Finish:Black anodized
Quantity:Sold individually.
Notes:Threaded retaining cap.
Russell push-on EFI fittings are precision-machined to ensure precise thread engagement. They are available in various configurations to fit OEM hard lines and ensure a positive seal, even at maximum operating pressures.
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Old 11-25-2012, 01:49 PM   #689
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It's been a minute since I've checked your thread. Man you're doing all kinds of awesome things.

That lightweight battery is cheap and awesome! And, if anybody is wondering, pretty much any o'reilly/autozone/pep boys or parts store have something that interchanges with it. Only thing is, it's like $40 more ($99.99 at O'Reilly). I'm glad somebody did the research on that for me, I've been using a lawn mower battery in my corolla for the past year, and it does alright but I want the engine bay to look a little nicer and an AGM battery will be MUCH better than what I'm using.
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Old 11-25-2012, 04:34 PM   #690
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Will you have any problems with the injectors and fuel rails in conformity with the JDM v8 intake manifold? I have a v7 intake manifold and usdm rails; I had to purchase machined blocks to adapt the two together. Just curious. Good work here.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:46 PM   #691
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Originally Posted by DerickRyoung View Post
Will you have any problems with the injectors and fuel rails in conformity with the JDM v8 intake manifold? I have a v7 intake manifold and usdm rails; I had to purchase machined blocks to adapt the two together. Just curious. Good work here.
Way ahead of you!

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=683
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:13 AM   #692
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Yeah I am jackass and over looked that post. I figured you already knew anyway.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:43 PM   #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluiten View Post
They are made by Russell Performance. Here is the information:

Brand:Russell Performance
Manufacturer's Part Number:644113
Part Type:Fuel Line Adapter Fittings
Product Line:Russell Push-On EFI Fittings

UPC:087133929910
Fitting Attachment 1:Male threads
Fitting Size 1:-6 AN
Fitting Attachment 2:Female quick-connect
Fitting Size 2:5/16 in.
Fitting Angle:Straight
Gauge Port:No
Fitting Finish:Black anodized
Quantity:Sold individually.
Notes:Threaded retaining cap.
Russell push-on EFI fittings are precision-machined to ensure precise thread engagement. They are available in various configurations to fit OEM hard lines and ensure a positive seal, even at maximum operating pressures.
Ken, i have one like that on the Legacy. It does not use the retaining nut though, it just pushes on and clicks. looks just like the 08+ fittings at the tank, the 2 plastic pieces that you push together and slide it off.

I believe I got it from Parker on Baseline in Mesa.

Worked great!

I'm thinking that yours may be a little more secure, however..
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:29 AM   #694
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I've loved following this thread. Makes me want to bring my wagon back to it's original luster!
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:20 PM   #695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerickRyoung View Post
Yeah I am jackass and over looked that post. I figured you already knew anyway.
No biggie. You'd be surprised about the amount of things I miss you having the feedback from you guys is great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z0rr0 View Post
Ken, i have one like that on the Legacy. It does not use the retaining nut though, it just pushes on and clicks. looks just like the 08+ fittings at the tank, the 2 plastic pieces that you push together and slide it off.

I believe I got it from Parker on Baseline in Mesa.

Worked great!

I'm thinking that yours may be a little more secure, however..
I saw those as well. I only chose these because they were cheaper by a couple of dollars. I'm sure those ones work well too. Anything is better and less frustrating than the OEM ones...

A Parker store in Mesa?!? I just found an Earl's store the other day and was happy about that. Both of these stores will extract far too much money from me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobylazur View Post
I've loved following this thread. Makes me want to bring my wagon back to it's original luster!
Thanks! And get to it. We need more wagons around this joint.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:01 AM   #696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluiten View Post
No biggie. You'd be surprised about the amount of things I miss you having the feedback from you guys is great.



I saw those as well. I only chose these because they were cheaper by a couple of dollars. I'm sure those ones work well too. Anything is better and less frustrating than the OEM ones...

A Parker store in Mesa?!? I just found an Earl's store the other day and was happy about that. Both of these stores will extract far too much money from me...



Thanks! And get to it. We need more wagons around this joint.
yeah, it's just west of mesa drive on baseline.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:56 AM   #697
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So the wife was out of town this past week which meant I had a few hours to work on the car. With Jay's help, we installed the camshafts, adjusted the clearances, and installed the timing belt kit.

As most have figured out by now, I am installing an EJ207 into my car. The Version 8 Spec-C EJ207 that I bought runs on a 16-bit ECU with a DBC throttle and AVCS. My car, a 2006 WRX has a 32-bit ECU with a DBW throttle and AVCS. Unfortunately, the way in which the 32-bit USDM ECU's/motors monitor the AVCS is very different than the 16-bit JDM ECU.

The main difference lies in the way the ECU monitors the camshaft position/angle. There are some technical details here that I'll skip, but basically, the USDM sensors cannot read the JDM cams properly. The JDM sensors cannot read the USDM cams properly. You must keep the USDM sensors with the 32-bit ECU with the USDM style cam. This means I had to tear open my nice new EJ207 and pull out the JDM hardware and swap in the USDM cams and sensors (and of course use my old engine harness and ECU).

This sounds simply enough, and for the most part, it is. The USDM EJ255/257 cams are the same basic dimesions as the JDM cams and fit into the EJ207 heads without issue. The pickups on the USDM cams however do not line up with the senor holes on the EJ207 heads, at least not on the driverside cam. This requires you to open up or extend the senor hole slightly to push the senor toward the back of the head about 7mm. Additionally, the bolt holes on both the passenger side sensor and the must be modified slightly to allow you to bolt the senors down using the existing factory threaded holes.

So to summarize:

Driverside: Extend or open up the sensor hole to allow the sensor to be located 7mm further back on the cam. This centers the sensor squarely over the signal grooves on the USDM cam shaft. The depth of the sensor does not need to be changed and it should end up placing the tip of the sensor ~2mm off of the camshaft. The bolt hole on the sensor will need to be slotted/extended so that it aligns with the threaded hole on the head. A gasket solution will need to be implemented to make sure the sensor hole is properly sealed since the factory oring on the sensor will not seal in the extended hole.

Passenger side: The sensor should be centered over the signal grooves on the camshaft and requires no positional adjustment. The tip of the sensor should stand off of the camshaft ~2mm. The bolt hole on the sensor will need to be slotted/extended toward the body of the sensor so that it aligns with the threaded hole on the head. The USDM sensor is a bot loose in the hole so a thicker oring needs to be used to properly seal the sensor hole.

That's it in a nut shell. Now I've got some pictures to help show what was done.

Driverside:

Here is where the USDM sensor (black cylinder part) sits in the EJ207 head in relation to the USDM camshaft. The deep cut/slot in the camshaft is the location feature that the sensor uses to judge camshaft position. There are four (?) of these grooves around the camshaft's circumference. Ideally you want the sensor centered over the slot. In this current position, the sensor may detect the slot, but it may not be as strong as it should be/needs to be for the ECU to use the signal.


Here is where the sensor sits after modification to the hole. It is not centered over the slot.


Before:


After:


Before:


After:


Next I modified the mounting hole on the sensor so I could bolt it down using the factory threaded hole.

Before:


After: (note it's just slightly off, but enough that the bolt won't thread in without moving the sensor too much.)


To cut the hole, I used a Dremel tool with a carbide bit. To keep things clean and shaving free, Jay and I taped off the inside of the heads thoroughly. No part of the inside of the head was exposed. Jay also vacuumed up shavings while I cut the hole. We removed only small amounts of material at a time and then test fit the sensor. Measure twice, cut once. Remove as little material as possible.




Last edited by kpluiten; 12-03-2012 at 02:18 AM.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:02 AM   #698
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Driverside continuted:

To modify the mounting hole on the sensor, I first removed the metal ring that is molded into the plastic. This ring is there to prevent the sensor body from being crushed when it is bolted down.


I drove the ring out with a punch and hammer. It doesn't take much.


Out.


Next I opened up the hole slightly using a dremel tool with a carbide bit. Again, it doesn't take much.


Then I replaced the ring. You can see the amount that I shifted it over (~1mm).


Now it lines up perfectly with the threaded hole on the head.

Last edited by kpluiten; 12-03-2012 at 02:19 AM.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:07 AM   #699
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Lol, mine and Travis's phone both went off at the same time with the thread subscription notification from nasioc
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:13 AM   #700
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Driverside continuted:

When you are done opening up the sensor hole, you will have an ovalized hole profile that looks something like this:


As you can imagine, the sensor no longer seals the hole using its oring. I was careful to only remove just what was needed to relocate the sensor, and as a result, the flange ont he sensor covered the hole entirely. This made sealing the hole up fairly easy with the fabrication of a custom gasket sized similar to the sensor body, made from the DIY gasket material you can pick up at any autoparts store.

First I cut a hole for the sensor tip:






Then I traced the body of the sensor:




Then I cut it out:


Finished product:



Last edited by kpluiten; 12-03-2012 at 02:19 AM.
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