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Old 12-03-2012, 07:01 PM   #51
OrbitalEllipses
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That's a pretty good looking car...I think. I'm confused now.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:40 PM   #52
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Something something no replacement for displacement.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:43 AM   #53
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I'm surprised by the excitement. This is going to be another heavy American sedan. Lots of power, but also weight, and poor MPG. No different than a Lincoln MKS/Ford Taurus SHO which already have a V6TT plus AWD and nobody cares.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:47 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by AllAWD View Post
I'm surprised by the excitement. This is going to be another heavy American sedan. Lots of power, but also weight, and poor MPG. No different than a Lincoln MKS/Ford Taurus SHO which already have a V6TT plus AWD and nobody cares.
You make a point... BUT... if the Buicks really are ATX-based... ATX was engineered for lightness, and a lot of reviewers do care for the handling. This could be good.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:20 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by AllAWD View Post
I'm surprised by the excitement. This is going to be another heavy American sedan. Lots of power, but also weight, and poor MPG. No different than a Lincoln MKS/Ford Taurus SHO which already have a V6TT plus AWD and nobody cares.
What once was 'heavy' (mid 3000 curb weight) is now "normal" in the sedan market due to increased safety regulations.

Accords and Camrys are 3400-3500 lbs these days with the 6cyl options.

The Mustang GT is 3615lbs (MT) and 3675 (AT).

The new ATS 2.5L is 3315lbs, and 3.6L is 3461lbs, both with AT. 3400 lbs for RWD 6cyl that 0-60's in 5.6 seconds? That's some good engineering right there.

The capability is there to add lightness to the Buick lineup using the Alpha platform, or in the very least, be as light as all the other sedans in the current market.

"Heavy" would be north of 3700 lbs to me.

--kC
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:14 AM   #56
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What once was 'heavy' (mid 3000 curb weight) is now "normal" in the sedan market due to increased safety regulations.

Accords and Camrys are 3400-3500 lbs these days with the 6cyl options.

The Mustang GT is 3615lbs (MT) and 3675 (AT).

The new ATS 2.5L is 3315lbs, and 3.6L is 3461lbs, both with AT. 3400 lbs for RWD 6cyl that 0-60's in 5.6 seconds? That's some good engineering right there.

The capability is there to add lightness to the Buick lineup using the Alpha platform, or in the very least, be as light as all the other sedans in the current market.

"Heavy" would be north of 3700 lbs to me.

--kC
Well that would be promising. I hadn't read up on the Alpha platform. I was thinking that this would be bigger than a regal which weighs in at 3700, but only has a turbo-4.

The Taurus SHO is 4,343 lbs. Unbelievably overweight.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:33 AM   #57
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The Taurus SHO is 4,343 lbs. Unbelievably overweight.
Huh? The Taurus is dimensionally just slightly larger than a Lexus LS, which also weighs roughly 4300 pounds. Pretty normal for such a large car.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:44 AM   #58
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Huh? The Taurus is dimensionally just slightly larger than a Lexus LS, which also weighs roughly 4300 pounds. Pretty normal for such a large car.
I exaggerate. I get that it's normal. I was more pointing out my mistake in comparing cars of different classes.

I also would think a lot more of an LS weight comes from luxury items, sound deadening, leather, electronics etc. than on a Ford. So it is a teenzy bit plump.

I had hopes for the Regal and was disappointed. A RWD Buick sub-3700 with the engines possible
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:27 PM   #59
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I also would think a lot more of an LS weight comes from luxury items, sound deadening, leather, electronics etc. than on a Ford. So it is a teenzy bit plump.
Separate the apples from the oranges -- the regular Taurus is ~4000 pounds, which means the Lexus has 200+ pounds more sound deadening. The SHO is AWD, and the comparable Lexus is 4600 pounds.

Either car is too large to interest me. I agree that a lightweight Regal with power could be fun.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:06 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by AllAWD View Post
A RWD Buick sub-3700 with the engine is possible
Exactly.

Buick GN, Turbo 6, lighter than the 8.... with limited C&C (like the old one).

3500ish lbs. Completely doable. And remember, those weights are for Caddys, which have, I'm sure, some premium C&C.

--kC

Last edited by KC; 12-04-2012 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:41 AM   #61
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So what about if they called it the GSX?
Or came up with an entirely new name. Aside from the big three, every other auto manufacturer seems to be able to pull it off. All Buick has to do to keep their "heritage designation" is slap an X at the end of something.
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:59 PM   #62
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you guys do realize that the Grand National never had a manual right? And this new one probably won't either? GM guys love old automatic transmissions for drag racing purposes...
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:21 PM   #63
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you guys do realize that the Grand National never had a manual right?
Yes it did. It was kept in the glovebox with the mullet hair spray.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:42 PM   #64
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2015 Buick Grand National and GNX: Two Storied Nameplates Return



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Buick is resuscitating its two revered nameplates. The 2015 Grand National and GNX sedans will ride on GM's new rear-drive Alpha platform, which was introduced with the Cadillac ATS and is earmarked for the sixth-generation Camaro and the third-generation Cadillac CTS.

Like the ATS, Buick's GN will offer the choice of a turbocharged 2.0-liter four (currently rated at 272 horsepower) or a 3.6-liter V-6 that makes 321 horses in the ATS. The wicked GNX, available only in the official shade of evil (black), will be powered by a twin-turbo *3.6-liter V-6 that should be good for 400 horsepower. The transmission roster will include manuals for the turbo engines and automatics across the board. The eight-speed Hydra-Matic due in 2014 should serve nicely here.

Even without the V-8 engines that are reserved for Camaros and Cadillacs, these Buick sports sedans should be capable of serious performance. By that we mean tire smoke on demand, near-neutral throttle-down handling, and acceleration figures that raise eyebrows in Bavaria. In the likely event Buick throws all-wheel drive into the mix, its new warriors will take the fight to Audi.
If I'm reading that correctly, they're going to offer a manual transmission for the V6TT model? Sounds too good to be true...
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:26 PM   #65
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They had me up until the GNX would only be in black. I know why, but black is the worst color of all
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:44 PM   #66
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They had me up until the GNX would only be in black. I know why, but black is the worst color of all
It's the one time GM does something exactly right, and people still bitch.
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:06 PM   #67
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Wow, this sounds pretty awesome. Your move Ford, do something interesting with the Coyote engine and the Fusion.
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:23 PM   #68
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[thedude]Nice Charger.[/thedude]

The Buick kink that featured on the old LaCrosse doesn't look right at all from this angle.
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:32 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Vostok 7 View Post
They had me up until the GNX would only be in black. I know why, but black is the worst color of all
uhhhh..... well you know that's the only color they came in back in the day...
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:02 PM   #70
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V6TT...
RWD...
Sedan..

..

...




Erection achieved.
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:28 PM   #71
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uhhhh..... well you know that's the only color they came in back in the day...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vostok 7 View Post
They had me up until the GNX would only be in black. I know why, but black is the worst color of all
I just don't see it as a good business decision if they want them to sell well.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:46 PM   #72
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They had me up until the GNX would only be in black. I know why, but black is the worst color of all
Well, maybe initially it will be in Black only for promotional/nostalgia reasons but I'm sure demand would spur other colors.

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Wow, this sounds pretty awesome. Your move Ford, do something interesting with the Coyote engine and the Fusion.
If Ford would do something like this, it will probably be for Lincoln.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:59 PM   #73
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Well, maybe initially it will be in Black only for promotional/nostalgia reasons but I'm sure demand would spur other colors.



If Ford would do something like this, it will probably be for Lincoln.
Like make the Aus Falcon a Licoln.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:00 PM   #74
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If Ford would do something like this, it will probably be for Lincoln.
It would have to be off the new Mustang IRS platform too. Too bad Mercury isn't around any more so they could make a Mustang-derived Cougar to make up for that fail "Cougar" they made years ago.

As a Lincoln, they'd have to call it a Mark XI or something and it just wouldn't have the cachet to compete in a younger intended market.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:50 PM   #75
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It would have to be off the new Mustang IRS platform too. Too bad Mercury isn't around any more so they could make a Mustang-derived Cougar to make up for that fail "Cougar" they made years ago.

As a Lincoln, they'd have to call it a Mark XI or something and it just wouldn't have the cachet to compete in a younger intended market.
Bring back the Zephyr Coupe.

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