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Old 12-04-2012, 03:13 PM   #26
Snowphun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samagon View Post
Shouldn't.

Car engines these days can easily, very easily, make it 150k miles with regular maintenance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rootus
Why? It's not a new phenomenon. It goes up a little every year as cars become more reliable. 20 years ago it was around 8 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadGeneration
The economy is playing a factor, people are buying used and keeping their autos longer.
If the average car is 11 years old that means there must be a massive amount of 20 year old cars to offset all the new ones, and I find that hard to believe.
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:37 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by skywaffles View Post
Audi ditched CVTs (they tried it out in the FWD A4) due to reliability issues.
Nissan's CVTs are so bad they had to extend the warranties of nine models 10 years/120k miles.
Ford ditched CVTs (tried them out in the Freestyle) due to huge reliability issues.
MINI ditched CVTs due to reliability issues.

Toyota style hybrid CVTs are a completely different beast. They rely on planetary gear sets instead of belts.

CVTs offer little benefit over a modern torque converter automatic or DSG. They suck to drive, have little to no benefit for efficiency, and are impossible to repair for the most part.
Subarus version is quite robust tho... chain instead of belt.

--kC
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:47 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post
If the average car is 11 years old that means there must be a massive amount of 20 year old cars to offset all the new ones, and I find that hard to believe.
There are 13 million cars sold each year, there are 200+ million already on the road. I think it's not a stretch to think there are 10-15 million cars out there that are 1993 or older. I see them all the time.

Last edited by Rootus; 12-04-2012 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:19 PM   #29
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Um, I feel that my old Mercedes deserves a honorable mention here:

1982 Mercedes-Benz 300SD
Still in service, driven to work every morning, through NYC traffic, goes with me to all the job sites, etc. Modded (intake, exhaust, boost raised), to keep up with modern day traffic.

Only gulps 1 gal of diesel every 25 miles, while being speed maxed every day (82 MPH).
A/C still cold, all electrics still work. All the connectors on this car are factory soldered, nothing is crimped.
The vacuumatic door locks don't work anymore..

To me, this was technology built to last. They don't build them like this no more..
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:23 PM   #30
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I've got to agree on the Forester front. I've got an '09 @ 111k with no issues at all. I'm getting the next big PM done now. Other than that, the next biggest cost was tires.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:30 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
Subarus version is quite robust tho... chain instead of belt.

--kC
Which is why I finally decided to go for one. The chain also seems to quiet the whine that is typically associated with CVT's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skywaffles View Post

Toyota style hybrid CVTs are a completely different beast. They rely on planetary gear sets instead of belts.

CVTs offer little benefit over a modern torque converter automatic or DSG. They suck to drive, have little to no benefit for efficiency, and are impossible to repair for the most part.
Planetary gear sets make sense.

Actually I kinda like the smoothness compared to modern torque converter automatic trannys. Find the rpm's that are giving you the acceleration you need and balance that against the torque being produced and go. I also like that the final drive ratio can be so high for highway running and with this particular tranny I have the option of choosing a gear if I want to maximize things at lower speeds. I don't have to let the tranny make all the decisions and shifts happen quickly enough with the paddles.

I've had two cars recently with modern automatics, a Volvo with a 5 spd auto and a 12 Challenger with a Mercedes 5 spd auto and rear end. Both were good, the Dodge was much better but neither made me go "Oooh nice..."

I think the best is some of the new double clutch or DSG setups.

Last edited by gravitylover; 12-04-2012 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:52 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skywaffles View Post

Hence "may." DI can lead to carbon buildup which fouls up engines pretty badly. CVTs tend to be sealed meaning if anything goes wrong you have to replace the entire unit. CVTs tend to go wrong quite often. There have been electronics in the past, but not to the extent today. Everything is interdependent. I'm not saying all new cars are going to catastrophically fail. They are just working a lot harder.

Plus look at modern emission controlled diesels. Their reliability SUCKS.
The carbon build up causes misfires and check engine lights, and depending on the engine, it's pretty easy to Clean out. It's considered to be regular maintenance at this point, every 30k you get it cleaned out.

Seems Subarus the only one with a good cvt. Cvts do suck to drive.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:32 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Godmal View Post
The carbon build up causes misfires and check engine lights, and depending on the engine, it's pretty easy to Clean out. It's considered to be regular maintenance at this point, every 30k you get it cleaned out.
What's involved in the clean out process?
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:42 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post
What's involved in the clean out process?
If it's light you can get away with spraying some cleaner through the intake. If it's moderate you have to pull the intake and scrape the crap out. If it's heavy you have to pull the heads and have them cleaned.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:42 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post

What's involved in the clean out process?
remove intake manifold, scrape out the big stuff. We have a walnut shell blaster that takes care of the rest, makes the valves look new.

In my experience, the better it's maintained (change the oil!) and the harder it's driven, the less carbon buildup occurs.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:49 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by tibug View Post
The Justy used a ECVT way back when. EDIT: I'm not saying that the Justy's ECVT was anything like modern CVTs, just to be clear, Clarence.
Was the first production car in the U.S. to have one. Was crappy(here. great in Japan). Subaru knew/knows what was wrong with it. That is why I am confident in their new one that is now in it's 4th model year. I am sure there are plenty out there with tons of miles on it to prove it's reliability.

What has to be understood is Subaru does have a good reliability reputation. Do people really believe they just threw a CVT onto the market(this time)? I believe they started developing the Lineartronic probably as soon as they discontinued the Justy. Now they are soo confident in their design, that it is virtually maintainence free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyHAM View Post
Real world driving my EcoBoost vs. one of my neighbors (we work at the same place) I get about 0.8 mpg better than he does. Not quite what was advertised, but close enough for rounding.

Towing is where the EcoBoost really shines. It's better than any truck I've ever towed with that had a gas engine. So far I've gotten 1.5 mpg better than my average in an older F150 with the 5.4L, 1 mpg better than the Nissan Titan, 2 mpg better than the Chevy 1500 (w/ the 5.3L), and 3 mpg better than a V6 Chevy Blazer hauling an open 5000lb car trailer. It's not so much the improvement in mpg when towing, it's the POWER. Even vs. the new dodge I tried it feels a lot stronger towing.

The racing in the dessert I have no idea. But real world I like this engine. Hopefully it holds up after 200K miles. (crosses fingers)

Cool. Thanks for that. Glad to hear something real world about the towing.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:53 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Was the first production car in the U.S. to have one. Was crappy(here. great in Japan). Subaru knew/knows what was wrong with it. That is why I am confident in their new one that is now in it's 4th model year. I am sure there are plenty out there with tons of miles on it to prove it's reliability.

What has to be understood is Subaru does have a good reliability reputation. Do people really believe they just threw a CVT onto the market(this time)? I believe they started developing the Lineartronic probably as soon as they discontinued the Justy. Now they are soo confident in their design, that it is virtually maintainence free.




Cool. Thanks for that. Glad to hear something real world about the towing.
My mom got a new ecoboost and she is averaging 15.5 mpg according to the dash monitor. She does not drive hard just to and from work 90% highway. When she towed my camper her MPG dropped a lot. Had to fill up two times in a six hour drive not including the mostly full tank she had before leaving.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:56 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post
If the average car is 11 years old that means there must be a massive amount of 20 year old cars to offset all the new ones, and I find that hard to believe.
It's an amazing statistic, I'll grant you. But the information should be very robust and straightforward to gather. State DMVs know the age of every car with a current license tab and most people won't waste money registering a car that doesn't run.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:49 PM   #39
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It seems to me that CVTs are becoming more popular as a whole, so I would think the auto industry would have some reason for it.
The auto industry is pretty much forced into doing it. With tough MPG CAFE regulations, they need every ounce of efficiency they can get. Regardless of reliability, noise, annoyance etc..... CVT's will keep the engine at it's best peak efficiency. So they have to do it because the government fines are probably worse than the warranty claims.
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:48 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Was the first production car in the U.S. to have one. Was crappy(here. great in Japan). Subaru knew/knows what was wrong with it. That is why I am confident in their new one that is now in it's 4th model year. I am sure there are plenty out there with tons of miles on it to prove it's reliability.

What has to be understood is Subaru does have a good reliability reputation. Do people really believe they just threw a CVT onto the market(this time)? I believe they started developing the Lineartronic probably as soon as they discontinued the Justy. Now they are soo confident in their design, that it is virtually maintainence free.
I read somewhere that the ECVT was designed for Japanese-style driving habits, and it worked great in that context. Then they brought it here, and the American driving style/driving needs were quite different, putting more stress on the CVT than it was designed for, thus it started failing.

But, like Mazda with the Wankel rotary, Subaru stuck with it, learned from their mistakes, and came out with a better product.

Other manufacturers didn't give their CVT projects a proper gestation period to work out the bugs and weak points, but gave up on them in favor of their known-quantity standard automatics, and just threw more gears into them.

It's easier and cheaper to fine-tune an existing product than engineer something new and different. I'm glad Subaru took the road less travelled.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:59 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by gggplaya View Post
The auto industry is pretty much forced into doing it. With tough MPG CAFE regulations, they need every ounce of efficiency they can get. Regardless of reliability, noise, annoyance etc..... CVT's will keep the engine at it's best peak efficiency. So they have to do it because the government fines are probably worse than the warranty claims.
There is a good performance argument for it, too. A 2.5L Outback with a CVT is much more liveable than one with a slushbox.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:12 AM   #42
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Um, I feel that my old Mercedes deserves a honorable mention here:

1982 Mercedes-Benz 300SD
Still in service, driven to work every morning, through NYC traffic, goes with me to all the job sites, etc. Modded (intake, exhaust, boost raised), to keep up with modern day traffic.

Only gulps 1 gal of diesel every 25 miles, while being speed maxed every day (82 MPH).
A/C still cold, all electrics still work. All the connectors on this car are factory soldered, nothing is crimped.
The vacuumatic door locks don't work anymore..

To me, this was technology built to last. They don't build them like this no more..
Those really are impressive cars. They're built like ****ing castles.
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