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Old 12-07-2012, 08:58 PM   #26
xluben
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatfaceType-R View Post
I also tire of your "my way or the highway" tuning and theories. (Which I have personal experience with) God must have given you the midas touch.

I think you need to play six more games of mine sweeper, I mean a six hour pump gas stage 2 tune...

We're all dumb, jr's numbers are your averages on a drunk day, you're the man...game, set, and match.
Honestly, as an outsider, this is how a lot of his posts come off to me. I have no experience with either of these tuners, but that's just the vibe I get from the posts.

It also seems like he spends a LOT of time explaining how low his dyno reads, and then posts numbers (from the supposedly "special" cars) that are basically in line with typical numbers from other tuners.

I'm not trying to create beef with anyone. I'm just saying how it looks from an outside point of view.

EDIT: And I do realize that it's possible other people are inflating dyno numbers and how frustrating this could be. I haven't scoured past history to try and figure out why things are the way they are today. I just see someone who looks to be very set in his frame of mind and goes out of his way to make this known.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:13 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
Honestly, as an outsider, this is how a lot of his posts come off to me. I have no experience with either of these tuners, but that's just the vibe I get from the posts.

It also seems like he spends a LOT of time explaining how low his dyno reads, and then posts numbers (from the supposedly "special" cars) that are basically in line with typical numbers from other tuners.

I'm not trying to create beef with anyone. I'm just saying how it looks from an outside point of view.

EDIT: And I do realize that it's possible other people are inflating dyno numbers and how frustrating this could be. I haven't scoured past history to try and figure out why things are the way they are today. I just see someone who looks to be very set in his frame of mind and goes out of his way to make this known.

I appreciate this level headed feedback. I do agree that sometimes I get frustrated with the inflated numbers flying around these days and it gets the best of me on occasion. I think I'm one of the few shops that has remained stubborn in our dyno calibration, but maybe that's causing more harm than good at this point. I'll have to seriously ponder this and maybe finally give in and get away from my low reading calibration. Its certainly better for marketing, making customers happy, and at this point it would be more in line with the majority.

Again, thank you for your unbiased opinion and feedback.

-- Ed
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:13 PM   #28
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Wish this stuff wasn't so expensive...
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:55 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Md05STI
Wish this stuff wasn't so expensive...
What's the price per gallon and availability? Is this something you'd be able to purchase in 55 gal drums? This is the first I've heard of the ftw fuel.

edit: a quick google search answered all my questions..way over priced for my intended use! Looks like regular e85 for me.

Last edited by blazzin06wrxdude; 12-07-2012 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:06 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by blazzin06wrxdude View Post
What's the price per gallon and availability? Is this something you'd be able to purchase in 55 gal drums? This is the first I've heard of the ftw fuel.

edit: a quick google search answered all my questions..way over priced for my intended use! Looks like regular e85 for me.
33.00 bucks per gallon IIRC
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:40 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post
Easy there Jr. What does an 09 baseline on your dyno?

As far as traps, guys out here are not nearly as into drag as they are in your area. I'm trying to arrange a drag day for these guys though so hopefully we can have some traps to back it up soon.

-- Ed


Ok what does 560 in a GTR trap on your dyno... er I mean at the track


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Originally Posted by CatfaceType-R View Post
I think you bit off more than you can chew.

I also tire of your "my way or the highway" tuning and theories. (Which I have personal experience with) God must have given you the midas touch.

I think you need to play six more games of mine sweeper, I mean a six hour pump gas stage 2 tune...

We're all dumb, jr's numbers are your averages on a drunk day, you're the man...game, set, and match.
Precisely what I was getting at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post
^^^ What are you talking about? You might have me confused with someone else?

Jr. knows what he's doing and can obviously tune a car for some serious trap speeds. I was just comparing against the baselines we see here and our results. I don't think I ever mentioned anything about tuning styles or theories.
You need to calm down. Just cars here and a discussion. Hell, we're discussing GT-R's on a subie forum... who cares? I guess I struck a nerve

-- Ed
See that? Its those little underlying comments..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post
On a technical note Jr, I've never messed with FTW fuel. Got any details on it? Any theory as to why it would make so much more power with no additional boost or timing?

Thanks
-- Ed

MBTE and OXYGENATED, MORE AIR MORE FUEL MORE POWER


Quote:
Originally Posted by CatfaceType-R View Post
No, I speak fact. You're trying to make other tuners look bad or that u solely know stuff to make big power, par your usual m.o.

Please, come correct on the keyboard.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post
I'm not trying to make anyone look bad. If I came off that way, my apologies.

FWIW, a stock 09-10 GT-R does 380whp on our dyno. Its all about the baselines and gains.

-- Ed
Right? Its all about the baseline and gains, so why are you posting your OPINION about what it would make on your dyno?
who cares about the dyno. Anyone with a mustang, dd, dynacom, dynolog, dynapack can alter the baseline and power output. I CANT TOUCH ANYTHING ON A DYNOJET.. What it spits out, is what you get.. I'm not saying you are altering numbers either..

Show me some GTR trap speeds. Buschur style.. The car made 700 my Mustang dyno reads low, then backs it up with 150mph pass at the track.. Or Mike@Innovative he says it reads low, and then bust out a 145+mph traps out of a 580-600hp car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slimsti View Post
Nice numbers. That FTW is no joke. There must be more to this arguing then this thread otherwise I'm lost as to the hostility
It is great fuel, if you want to set a record or run a number at the track this is the stuff to do it with.

Just years of Ed putting his dyno numbers into everyone's threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
Honestly, as an outsider, this is how a lot of his posts come off to me. I have no experience with either of these tuners, but that's just the vibe I get from the posts.

It also seems like he spends a LOT of time explaining how low his dyno reads, and then posts numbers (from the supposedly "special" cars) that are basically in line with typical numbers from other tuners.

I'm not trying to create beef with anyone. I'm just saying how it looks from an outside point of view.

EDIT: And I do realize that it's possible other people are inflating dyno numbers and how frustrating this could be. I haven't scoured past history to try and figure out why things are the way they are today. I just see someone who looks to be very set in his frame of mind and goes out of his way to make this known.
Wow, someone with an unbiased opinion!!! that can see why people get annoyed with the BS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post
I appreciate this level headed feedback. I do agree that sometimes I get frustrated with the inflated numbers flying around these days and it gets the best of me on occasion. I think I'm one of the few shops that has remained stubborn in our dyno calibration, but maybe that's causing more harm than good at this point. I'll have to seriously ponder this and maybe finally give in and get away from my low reading calibration. Its certainly better for marketing, making customers happy, and at this point it would be more in line with the majority.

Again, thank you for your unbiased opinion and feedback.

-- Ed
Get off the dyno number and go to a track? You have only been on here for like 8yrs.. plenty of time to have proven the numbers with traps speeds. Anyone anywhere can tell me my dyno is inflated or deflated... I can show them an ET/MPH for 100s of cars at this point to back up the dyno numbers.

I would bet I make around 600whp on your dyno. The other 139mph GTR on the Nagtroc made 590 on an unaltered mustang dyno.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Md05STI View Post
Wish this stuff wasn't so expensive...
Its so worth it And it smells like grape juice

Quote:
Originally Posted by blazzin06wrxdude View Post
What's the price per gallon and availability? Is this something you'd be able to purchase in 55 gal drums? This is the first I've heard of the ftw fuel.

edit: a quick google search answered all my questions..way over priced for my intended use! Looks like regular e85 for me.
It is definitely not something you want to run everyday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
33.00 bucks per gallon IIRC
Yep
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:13 AM   #32
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Good work guys! I have question that im sure has been answerered before in one of the dyno battle threads. Maybe you guys would care to comment.

I understand that a dyno is just a tool, and there are a few different kinds of manufacturers and styles.
My question is isnt there some kind of "standard" to check a dyno with?

For instance, when i use my volt meter, it has been calibrated by a company that checks it with a "standard" and corrects any deviation from the "standard" and i get a report saying exactly how close it was and its good for a year, etc. etc.


Thanks,

James.
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:38 PM   #33
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JR,

You're right. I'm getting off the dyno debates. I think it's been a sore spot for me, but I'm over it. Like I said, guys out here are not into drags much so I don't get the same opportunities to prove my numbers so I have to rely more on dyno numbers. Either way, I'm over it. I think for 2013 I'll finally make the switch to dynojet calibration and make everyone happy.

I gotta try the FTW stuff. Sounds similar to the VP109 that was oxegynated and made awesome power.


-- Ed
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:52 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post
I appreciate this level headed feedback. I do agree that sometimes I get frustrated with the inflated numbers flying around these days and it gets the best of me on occasion. I think I'm one of the few shops that has remained stubborn in our dyno calibration, but maybe that's causing more harm than good at this point. I'll have to seriously ponder this and maybe finally give in and get away from my low reading calibration. Its certainly better for marketing, making customers happy, and at this point it would be more in line with the majority.

Again, thank you for your unbiased opinion and feedback.

-- Ed
Its not about how low your dyno reads. Too many people on here say a dynojet reads to high, well in my experience I dynoed my stock 5.7 Tundra which was rated at 381hp and it made 313whp on dynojet on SAE correction. Which is 18% power loss on truck that was 4x4. Seems pretty realistic to me. From what I can tell all car manufactures rate their cars on dynojet SAE corrections. Another example, stock sti generally in 235-245hp on dynojet, that is approx 18% power loss through AWD setup which I find to be realistic. So rating car on low reading mustang makes it better how?????

I like fact that dynojet can't be manipulated unless you can change the elevation or weather, other than that no correction factor. I see mustangs read all over the place, some read very very low, and most are calibrated to read more like dynojet, but operators tell you its low reading cause it is mustang.

Anyways back to subject, I like the results from the fuel. It appears to have similar effects as nitromethane, but doesnt make as much power as nitro would. Very interesting, just wish it was $30+ a gallon. Does it have cooling effects similar to E85?
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:28 PM   #35
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All dynos can be manipulated pretty easily. With Dynojets, people change the inertia values for the rollers to inflate them. I've seen different dynojets read differently as well.

Manufacturers rate their power based on engine dynos not chassis dynos. 18% loss seems low to me for AWD since most RWD's are in the 12-15% range. But again, it's all just numbers. I think the only good way to check a dyno calibration is with a precisely rated electric motor with no gear box.

-- Ed
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Old 12-08-2012, 03:57 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by bswilmington View Post
Anyways back to subject, I like the results from the fuel. It appears to have similar effects as nitromethane, but doesnt make as much power as nitro would. Very interesting, just wish it was $30+ a gallon. Does it have cooling effects similar to E85?
Yes because it is E85. We just don't know what the other 15% is .Haha. Grape soda maybe. lol
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Old 12-08-2012, 04:45 PM   #37
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nice. where do you get this stuff?
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Old 12-08-2012, 05:15 PM   #38
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Not sure if there is a local distributor in NC. Junior would probably know.

https://www.facebook.com/FtwRacingFuels?ref=stream

Hit up Chris Miller, maybe you could be one if you wanted
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Old 12-08-2012, 05:19 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by JTPerryR1 View Post
Not sure if there is a local distributor in NC. Junior would probably know.

https://www.facebook.com/FtwRacingFuels?ref=stream

Hit up Chris Miller, maybe you could be one if you wanted
I don't think it would do to well in the Wilmington area seeing as we cannot even get E85 around here.
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Old 12-08-2012, 05:24 PM   #40
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^ True. You'd want to be on E85 and just run this for special occasions
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Old 12-08-2012, 06:19 PM   #41
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Not to change the subject but didn't VP just come out with e85 that also adds power over regular e85? Or is this the stuff?
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Old 12-08-2012, 06:42 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by 03WRXWagon View Post
I don't think it would do to well in the Wilmington area seeing as we cannot even get E85 around here.
Im not in Wilmington area anymore, up next to Greensboro now. I have E85 here buts its more driving than I care to do, about 50 miles from where I live.

This is Brent correct? If so this is Brandon from Parkway.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:02 PM   #43
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Its so worth it And it smells like grape juice
Need the right setup to make it worth it! Get back to me on what we talked about man! I need to figure out what's going on, want this thin to be ready for the first weekend of march to get it going.
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:30 PM   #44
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Im not in Wilmington area anymore, up next to Greensboro now. I have E85 here buts its more driving than I care to do, about 50 miles from where I live.

This is Brent correct? If so this is Brandon from Parkway.

Yep, never put together the screen name. I hope you are doing well. I had Kenny replace my clutch with a ACT street disc and heavier pressure plate. The car is running well. Meth kit is installed but I have not had it tuned for meth yet.
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:10 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by slowgenius View Post
Good work guys! I have question that im sure has been answerered before in one of the dyno battle threads. Maybe you guys would care to comment.

I understand that a dyno is just a tool, and there are a few different kinds of manufacturers and styles.
My question is isnt there some kind of "standard" to check a dyno with?

For instance, when i use my volt meter, it has been calibrated by a company that checks it with a "standard" and corrects any deviation from the "standard" and i get a report saying exactly how close it was and its good for a year, etc. etc.


Thanks,

James.

DynoJet is the industry standard. You go to just about any sanctioned event with hp restrictions etc and they use a DJ to measure the power before races.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post
JR,

You're right. I'm getting off the dyno debates. I think it's been a sore spot for me, but I'm over it. Like I said, guys out here are not into drags much so I don't get the same opportunities to prove my numbers so I have to rely more on dyno numbers. Either way, I'm over it. I think for 2013 I'll finally make the switch to dynojet calibration and make everyone happy.

I gotta try the FTW stuff. Sounds similar to the VP109 that was oxegynated and made awesome power.


-- Ed
Just do it!!!

It needs fuel, A LOT of it. I maxed out my Id1000s@68 base pressure and 84-85 peak with 2 dw65c pumps

Quote:
Originally Posted by bswilmington View Post

Anyways back to subject, I like the results from the fuel. It appears to have similar effects as nitromethane, but doesnt make as much power as nitro would. Very interesting, just wish it was $30+ a gallon. Does it have cooling effects similar to E85?
It is Ethonal with MBTE and highly oxygenated. It has to meet class rules, so it has been tested for nitro and passes with flying colors. The previous problem with mixing e and mbte/oxy is it became very unstable and inconsistent. I would know I only broke 2-3 of my own cars trying it


Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post
All dynos can be manipulated pretty easily. With Dynojets, people change the inertia values for the rollers to inflate them. I've seen different dynojets read differently as well.

Manufacturers rate their power based on engine dynos not chassis dynos. 18% loss seems low to me for AWD since most RWD's are in the 12-15% range. But again, it's all just numbers. I think the only good way to check a dyno calibration is with a precisely rated electric motor with no gear box.

-- Ed
Not as easy as that, it looks for drum info now.
Like I have always argued, you take the manufacture hp and there own driveline loss and the numbers always come out spot on with a dynojet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JTPerryR1 View Post
Yes because it is E85. We just don't know what the other 15% is .Haha. Grape soda maybe. lol
It taste like grapes, but boy does it burn like acid in the eyes

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTPerryR1 View Post
Not sure if there is a local distributor in NC. Junior would probably know.

https://www.facebook.com/FtwRacingFuels?ref=stream

Hit up Chris Miller, maybe you could be one if you wanted
CMR racing, Chris Miller Racing and or FaceBook FTW

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTPerryR1 View Post
^ True. You'd want to be on E85 and just run this for special occasions
Exactly, this is for special events


Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxsubiemod View Post
Not to change the subject but didn't VP just come out with e85 that also adds power over regular e85? Or is this the stuff?
C85 cant touch this stuff. It barely makes the claimed 4% over pumped e85. The biggest gain is the consistency since it is exactly the same tank after tank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Md05STI View Post
Need the right setup to make it worth it! Get back to me on what we talked about man! I need to figure out what's going on, want this thin to be ready for the first weekend of march to get it going.
I will get on it this week. I am playing catch up as it is
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:09 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Junior2JZ View Post
DynoJet is the industry standard. You go to just about any sanctioned event with hp restrictions etc and they use a DJ to measure the power before races.



Just do it!!!

It needs fuel, A LOT of it. I maxed out my Id1000s@68 base pressure and 84-85 peak with 2 dw65c pumps



It is Ethonal with MBTE and highly oxygenated. It has to meet class rules, so it has been tested for nitro and passes with flying colors. The previous problem with mixing e and mbte/oxy is it became very unstable and inconsistent. I would know I only broke 2-3 of my own cars trying it




Not as easy as that, it looks for drum info now.
Like I have always argued, you take the manufacture hp and there own driveline loss and the numbers always come out spot on with a dynojet.




It taste like grapes, but boy does it burn like acid in the eyes



CMR racing, Chris Miller Racing and or FaceBook FTW



Exactly, this is for special events




C85 cant touch this stuff. It barely makes the claimed 4% over pumped e85. The biggest gain is the consistency since it is exactly the same tank after tank.



I will get on it this week. I am playing catch up as it is

sounds like JR knows his ****
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:27 PM   #47
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My real question is when are you coming anywhere close to NC Jr? I want you to tune my car! Should be a PM but could not help myself.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:33 PM   #48
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My real question is when are you coming anywhere close to NC Jr? I want you to tune my car! Should be a PM but could not help myself.
I work with ShiftFast Motorsports once a month. If you are not to far maybe give them a call.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:25 PM   #49
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I wanna get my hands on some ftw purple for my built sti.
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:18 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post
On a technical note Jr, I've never messed with FTW fuel. Got any details on it? Any theory as to why it would make so much more power with no additional boost or timing?

Thanks
-- Ed
Ed,

I've talked to a few people currently using this fuel. Its basically as effective as Brazilian sugar based e100. The data Junior is providing is just about spot on for what the car should make. I don't post publicly much about the GT-R's I have done, but after tuning a couple dozen on e85 the typical dyno jet number is around 630whp on a, and around 550 on a true mustang. the e100 cars I tune make around 650, as Junior has done here.

E100 and the fuel Jr is using here is basically an "unknockable" fuel. If you have the balls to push the car until it stops making power, you have a 139-140mph stock turbo car.

If Jr gets a good tire on the car he'll probably go 9.90's. I would give it another 1-1.5 psi and try for 1.40's to the 60ft. Tires are key though, I'm currently running 22.5 psi in mine and just ice skate on the street. Ill be out opening day if I don't grenade the trans or bend a rod first Probably only run it once though, road racing is where its at. Nothing like cornering and braking at 160mph +

-Mikey

Last edited by STi Mikey; 12-10-2012 at 12:46 AM.
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