Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday July 25, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-06-2012, 11:55 AM   #5051
Vlad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46135
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
02 WRX
Powered by Sti V9 Spec C

Default

I looked up the Compensations for the GRB Spec C in the ROM, OEM.

Those have compensations, are not zeroed out from the factory. They are twinscroll, with TGV's.

To my abillity to evaulate the compensations, I would say that the compensatins table has become more sofisticated with the GRB and the compensations entered for the Spec C, seemed "light".
It seemed like the factory was "rounding out" that last 1% difference remaining.

The only GRB Spec C I saw was in Ecutek (open source did not have definitions at the time), I found the ROM and a friend let me look at it.

There is one Stock ROM now in open source (defined) as well, I think.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Vlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 12:14 PM   #5052
Clark Turner
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 178047
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: AZ
Vehicle:
02 WRX STI Spec C
Black

Default

I have all the new JDM Roms here. The GRB Spec C has comp. Mainly Cyl 3.

C
Clark Turner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 01:17 PM   #5053
BlazeRex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 268354
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Massachusetts
Vehicle:
02 WRX 05 LGT
Slow Automatics

Default

I'm assuming you all are talking about fueling comps. Interesting idea indeed, I never have had the tools or time to experiment with them accurately. I would assume EL's and/or twinscroll change them a bit. What is the cost of time and all that testing vs. benefit of being able to push fueling a little closer to the edge. I suppose it would also drive smoother at partial throttle closed loop.
BlazeRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 01:22 PM   #5054
lukeskywrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 59837
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Arizona
Vehicle:
2004 Spec-C Type RA
What MAF? -Speed Density!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Turner View Post
I believe that as many as 75% of the "spec C' engines you see or people own, are in fact standard STI engines. I found that the ECU sticker was reproduced(faked) as early as 2005 to list the Spec C information and the front white sticker was faked very early on.
It is not that hard to confirm a Spec-C motor visually; factory external oil cooler provision, proper BB turbo, specific water pump.

I do not think that there are that many "fake" Spec-C motors, Can't remember the last time I saw a Spec-C for sale that did not have the proper hardware to back it up. I am sure there are some people that were told it was a spec-C and they wanted to believe it, but don't make it seem there are a ton of sellers out there trying to swindle people.
lukeskywrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 02:19 PM   #5055
Ryan2002WRX
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 225439
Join Date: Oct 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
The HTA is single scroll.
You converted this to single scroll then, using what? an OEM single scroll exhaust manifold? Who tuned it originally?
Yes the hta is a single scroll. And yes again to run a single scroll you need a single scroll manifold. A gtspec was used. This was all done by the previous owner. All of the tuning was done by the late Chris at EFI.
Ryan2002WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 03:06 PM   #5056
lukeskywrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 59837
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Arizona
Vehicle:
2004 Spec-C Type RA
What MAF? -Speed Density!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazeRex View Post
I'm assuming you all are talking about fueling comps. Interesting idea indeed, I never have had the tools or time to experiment with them accurately. I would assume EL's and/or twinscroll change them a bit. What is the cost of time and all that testing vs. benefit of being able to push fueling a little closer to the edge. I suppose it would also drive smoother at partial throttle closed loop.

There are no per cyl fuel comps on the 05 JDM sti rom, there are ignition comps on cyl D. That makes me suspect it is about self tuning knock/timing by running cyl 4 at higher timing if Cyl D = Cyl 4
lukeskywrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 03:57 PM   #5057
BlazeRex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 268354
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Massachusetts
Vehicle:
02 WRX 05 LGT
Slow Automatics

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeskywrx View Post
There are no per cyl fuel comps on the 05 JDM sti rom, there are ignition comps on cyl D. That makes me suspect it is about self tuning knock/timing by running cyl 4 at higher timing if Cyl D = Cyl 4
In theory if VE is different cylinder to cylinder, timing and fuel comps should be adjusted to accomodate. Its just the time vs. benefit if its worth it. Maybe a intricate build where it will make it run and drive smoother.
BlazeRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 04:01 PM   #5058
BlazeRex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 268354
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Massachusetts
Vehicle:
02 WRX 05 LGT
Slow Automatics

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan2002WRX View Post
Yes the hta is a single scroll. And yes again to run a single scroll you need a single scroll manifold. A gtspec was used. This was all done by the previous owner. All of the tuning was done by the late Chris at EFI.
I think I know that car. Preetty sure that motor ended up blowing a ringland, it was a v8 ej207 with a 68HTA, right?
BlazeRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 04:15 PM   #5059
Ryan2002WRX
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 225439
Join Date: Oct 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan2002WRX View Post

I have a version 8 being rebuilt at EFI Logics as we speak. I was making 320 wheel on an hta68. It had a cyl #2 ring land failure. Possible cause was a lean condition that I was totally unaware of. Brought the car to do some logging two months after purchase and this was caught on the graph then compression test done. Best thing to keep in mind is these are junkyard motors and there really no guarantees. I have heard of one guy that opened his motor up for building purposes fresh from customs and he said it looked terrible inside. So it can happen. But also in my case it could have possibly been prevented assuming it was in fact the lean condition that caused it.
From a previous post yes that is the car.
Ryan2002WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 04:25 PM   #5060
2JZ
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 291949
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan2002WRX View Post
I have a version 8 being rebuilt at EFI Logics as we speak. I was making 320 wheel on an hta68. It had a cyl #2 ring land failure. Possible cause was a lean condition that I was totally unaware of. Brought the car to do some logging two months after purchase and this was caught on the graph then compression test done. Best thing to keep in mind is these are junkyard motors and there really no guarantees. I have heard of one guy that opened his motor up for building purposes fresh from customs and he said it looked terrible inside. So it can happen. But also in my case it could have possibly been prevented assuming it was in fact the lean condition that caused it.
wow that's encouraging.. don't want a 10 year old sea rotted V7 motor (most v7 motors for sale already have all the paint flaking off the intake!) and I don't want ringland problems. I wonder if they're anywhere near as bad as the USDM ringland problems.

I plan on running an assortment of sensors, I hope this is as reliable as im hoping this engine to be. I can't afford to have a car break down and just take a few days off work / school to rebuild the motor.
2JZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 04:43 PM   #5061
Ryan2002WRX
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 225439
Join Date: Oct 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2JZ View Post

wow that's encouraging.. don't want a 10 year old sea rotted V7 motor (most v7 motors for sale already have all the paint flaking off the intake!) and I don't want ringland problems. I wonder if they're anywhere near as bad as the USDM ringland problems.

I plan on running an assortment of sensors, I hope this is as reliable as im hoping this engine to be. I can't afford to have a car break down and just take a few days off work / school to rebuild the motor.
I wouldn't use my experience though to fully sway your choice. My ver.8 looked immaculate when it shipped. Compression was checked before the motor was put in. Also checked a week before I bought it. These motors are far stronger than US motors in my opinion. From all I've heard it is a bit rare to have a ring land issue with these motors than USDM motors. There are many vendors who supply some great motors. There is a risk no matter what motor you get. There is no guarantee really with any motor you get. I could have driven this car for a very very long time with this issue... it ran great pulled hard, started fine. Only way I caught this is I had a feeling the car wasn't running perfect. We logged the car and found a motor issue. Compression test determined it.

Going forward I am adding all the gauges needed to help monitor this motor. I should of had a wide band but only had the car for two months before discovering the motor issue.

Again people make some great point here about junkyard motors and old motors and things. But please don't let my experience steer you away from any decision you make. Hands down the ej207 is a great motor.
Ryan2002WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 06:17 PM   #5062
02 Scoob-TN
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 176010
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Nash, TN
Vehicle:
2005 WRX sdn ver8'ed
Phat-Tuned RIP Bugeye

Default

Most of the issues with these later model 207's root from owners not properly staging their swap plan. They end up rushing their swap install to get their daily back on the road and drive for a few months on the stock JDM tune with US gas. Then when they have a buddy in the car they cant resist punching it to redline a few times and now there sitting with an IAM of 11 or worse. They do this repeatedly several times over the next few weeks and then they suddenly start complaining about piston slap or noisy heads.

I have to admit I think I chose a tuner that had very little experience with these 207's specifically and it may have cost me a little in the final tune overall. They did great work but there were a few phrases shouted out over email like"o yeah its got some knock, guess those JDM's like a lil more timming" that came out as a red flag, because even I already knew that and this was said after reversion 10 on the map. From all my research it seems that Clark's knowledge on importing and tuning these things in the US is second to none.

Mr. Clark I believe I'll prove my theory and give you a shot. I want to swap to a kstech cold air intake instead of the fujita short one that ERZ screwed me with. But wanting to show your elite on the JDM setups would you be interested in doing a retune on my current setup to see what you can get in comparison. Ill pay for a complete tune on the cold air setup but wondered if your interested in doing a little work on my current tune from your knowledge, just to see if you can spot any obvious issues? PM if interested.
02 Scoob-TN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 01:10 AM   #5063
PHruska
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 214589
Join Date: Jun 2009
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Berkeley CA/bozeman MT
Vehicle:
2002 wrx wagon
PSM

Default

Just finished my e-tune with phatbotti.
Cant say a bad word about em. Constant contact with me via text and email. explained everything well, helped me trouble shoot, etc. Ron was a great guy to deal with, met every expectation and then some. he really knew the 207. I'd highly recommend him.
PHruska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 10:31 AM   #5064
2JZ
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 291949
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto
Default

Anyone tuned their EJ207 @ Innovative tuning in Buffalo? Seems like the closest reputable tuner in my area. I'm in the Toronto area.
2JZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 10:45 AM   #5065
mrxr250rider
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 271412
Join Date: Jan 2011
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: avoca pa
Vehicle:
05 ej207 wrx wagon
wrb

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan2002WRX View Post
From a previous post yes that is the car.
the motor was probably hurting when it was tuned. i would think the hta would make better power. i got 310whp out of my single scroll vf30 on efi's dyno. chris did an awesome job at tuning my car

should be doing better after the rebuild
mrxr250rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 11:12 AM   #5066
Ryan2002WRX
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 225439
Join Date: Oct 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrxr250rider View Post

the motor was probably hurting when it was tuned. i would think the hta would make better power. i got 310whp out of my single scroll vf30 on efi's dyno. chris did an awesome job at tuning my car

should be doing better after the rebuild
Yea I was kinda thinking the same thing. The car made 320 at 20 psi. Everything checked out with the car when I bought it but the problem must have been in the works. I can't wait to see how the car will do when it's done.
Ryan2002WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 02:51 PM   #5067
ImNOrobo
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 255716
Join Date: Aug 2010
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Where the simpsons live.
Vehicle:
Oh, It's a JDM STI?
Pretty close.

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHruska View Post
Just finished my e-tune with phatbotti.
Cant say a bad word about em. Constant contact with me via text and email. explained everything well, helped me trouble shoot, etc. Ron was a great guy to deal with, met every expectation and then some. he really knew the 207. I'd highly recommend him.
Had my tune done with Ron as well. He did a great job and I have been happy with the tune. I will be going back to the west coast and will have him do a 91 and e85 tune.
ImNOrobo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 09:37 AM   #5068
Vlad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46135
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
02 WRX
Powered by Sti V9 Spec C

Default

Just got my new walbro in there, back to driving the car...

My hope is that this (sti pump frame with spec C fuel box) actually fixes the scale of the USDM Sti fuel gauge, in addition to providing better fueling during hard cornering.
The diagram shows the ECU in the cluster reading both the level and the sublevel (which is from the other sender) and using some formula to determine the display.
The USDM Cluster turns on the low fuel light quite earlier than normal.

Last edited by Vlad; 12-08-2012 at 10:01 AM.
Vlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 10:57 AM   #5069
johnfelstead
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 856
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Hampshire, England, UK
Vehicle:
2005 JDM STi
Black

Default

Standard JDM STi turns the fuel light on with approx 9 litres in the fuel tank.

You should get decent fuel pickup until about 1/4 tank with the Spec C chamber, it's not fantastic, but better than without it. The only way to fix the issue properly is use an external swirl pot system, using the intank pump to fill that.
johnfelstead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 05:37 PM   #5070
Vlad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46135
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
02 WRX
Powered by Sti V9 Spec C

Default

Thanks for the spec C info John, it's in-line with what I was expecting.

With the low-fuel light, it's been different since this is a WRX body with an Sti cluster, among other things.
I'm trying to see if I can get this thing to auto-calibrate, somehow.

So how much is it these days, to buy a ticket to do one lap in your car on the Nuerburgring?
Vlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2012, 03:29 AM   #5071
Okita Souji
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 41097
Join Date: Aug 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Riverside, CA
Vehicle:
2005 WRX
Aspen White

Default

I recently bought a V8 EJ207, but it turns out that the engine wire harness is cut on the driver's side (my fault for not making sure they were there). What would be my best option? Can I, 1) use the engine wire harness off my WRX engine and move wires around for the AVCS or 2) can I splice the plugs off my current WRX harness onto the JDM harness? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by Okita Souji; 12-09-2012 at 03:36 AM.
Okita Souji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2012, 07:34 AM   #5072
Vlad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46135
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
02 WRX
Powered by Sti V9 Spec C

Default

A US driver's side is on the left, and there are two plugs there, one brown and one black.
Is this what you're talking about?
Vlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2012, 08:34 AM   #5073
johnfelstead
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 856
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Hampshire, England, UK
Vehicle:
2005 JDM STi
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
Thanks for the spec C info John, it's in-line with what I was expecting.

With the low-fuel light, it's been different since this is a WRX body with an Sti cluster, among other things.
I'm trying to see if I can get this thing to auto-calibrate, somehow.

So how much is it these days, to buy a ticket to do one lap in your car on the Nuerburgring?
The fuel guages are none linear, always have been in all the Subaru's i've owned, so long as you know roughly what the score is with the gauge position i wouldnt worry about it.

It's 26 Euro for a lap now, which is $33, a lot more expensive than when i first started driving there. You can also do a 20 minute session on the modern GP track for 40 Euro, $51.

It's all a bit bonkers over there these days, when i first started driving you could have lots of clean laps with relatively few on track (for a 13 mile course), there are far too many nutters who think playing a playsation makes them a ringmeister wrapping themselves round the nearest armco these days, which is why i dont bother going during the high season, the track is shut more than it's open whilst they clean up the carnage. The new building they did that has bankrupted the place is a disgrace too, it wouldnt be a bad thing if they bulldozed the lot and went back to how it used to be.
johnfelstead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2012, 09:01 AM   #5074
Vlad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46135
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
02 WRX
Powered by Sti V9 Spec C

Default

Are the Subaru factory guys still around?
I don't suppose factory rented buildings/garages are marked in any way, so that may not be easily seen.

Also, how do they do their testing? Do they buy time on the ring to where nobody else is allowed on there for an hour or two?
Like say your trying to buy a ticket, but they tell you that nothing is for sale for the next couple hours, because an undisclosed factory guy bought the place shut?

Also, my cluster issue goes from: WRX cluster does not think it's time to turn on low fuel, while Sti cluster does think it is..
So it's all about the Sti logic, which btw expects senders which have a different part number.
There is more, but I don't want to derail this thread.
The Sti cluster gives me a 5MPH optimistic reading, etc.
Basically,I'm working on getting 100% out of this unit.
Vlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2012, 09:20 AM   #5075
johnfelstead
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 856
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Hampshire, England, UK
Vehicle:
2005 JDM STi
Black

Default

The manufacturers have purpose built facilities just outside the circuit where they base the test cars. Most of the year the circuit is set asside for manufacturer testing, with public access being far less available than it used to be when i first drove there, this has increased the number of people trying to cram themsleves on track when it is open to the public.

I've met the Subaru test drivers there in the past, when they were testing the 300 limited edition MY05 Spec C Type RA.
johnfelstead is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ej207 owner wants opinions adbramsay Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 2 02-26-2011 07:29 PM
Ej207 V6 AndrewFD3 Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 10 06-03-2010 04:53 PM
JDM Sti EJ207 V9 crank 75mm or billet crank (K1, Manley) VENDORS ??? L'frise Private 'Wanted' Classifieds 7 06-03-2010 09:24 AM
08 ej207 JDM dual AVCS heads on a built v7 ej207 icev7 Built Motor Discussion 17 02-21-2010 03:21 PM
Ver 8 EJ207 Owners Check In spoolinsuby Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 21 10-17-2005 01:56 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.