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Old 11-26-2012, 09:13 PM   #1
mduck
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Default Turbo wagon 2.5 dohc

First start with the turbo on, half of the stuff not hooked up yet but it spins! making sure everything is ready to go!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E2-E...ature=youtu.be

1997 legacy wagon, 2.5 dohc, 4eat and saab 9-3 garrett turbocharger (i had it laying around, yes i know its tiny but this is an experiment)
made all piping out of old exhaust stuff i had laying around so its ghetto, hopefully it will last the winter.
Planning on running low boost like 5psi and getting some kind of em just for timing and fuel, i guess safc would work but i dont know anything about it.
One thing im not sure what to do with is the PCV system, anybody know how to route it so it dosent pressurize the crankcase?

Oh and how the hell did it stay ideling without the maf hooked up or the iac ?? haha i dont get it
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:11 PM   #2
V8Slayer
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Leave the MAF and IACV plugged in, you need them functioning for you car to drive properly. If you looking for cheap EM, look at the pp6. You are able to add fuel and reduce timing(exactly what you need with AFI). As far as the PCV system, you shouldn't need to touch that.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:30 PM   #3
mduck
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Yes i will plug them back in, this was just a test to make sure the system works and nothing leaks, i am going to run a draw through maf so it will calculate the air being sucked in, i dont think their should be any problems with that?

As for engine management i will look at pp6, i never used EM before so i really dont know how to use it..

Oh and i have a aem uego wideband, i believe it has an output that i can plug directly into my ecu ? i think my stock O2 sensor is finished so i might as well use the aem one, anyone can confirm that?

thanks
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:52 PM   #4
amoore131
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I would definitely read through this thread http://www.rs25.com/forums/f105/t160...rbo-ej25d.html

Idk what your plan is but I would get an intercooler and intake on there. Route your lines and pcv system into the intake (before turbo obviously) and run a bpv on the intercooler.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:02 PM   #5
mduck
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ya thats what i am going to do with the pcv system, and i do have an bov and small intercooler but its a pain in the ass to re-plumb everything, im just going to throw together and intake and bov and see how it goes..
keeping an eye on A/F ratios should let me know if the ecu is coping with low boost or if its going to take a dump haha

i cant wait to take it for a spin tho!
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:59 AM   #6
V8Slayer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amoore131 View Post
Idk what your plan is but I would get an intercooler and intake on there. Route your lines and pcv system into the intake (before turbo obviously) and run a bpv on the intercooler.
The pcv system(red) does not get routed back into the intake, just leave it the way it is and you will be fine. All other breather lines(blue) can be plumed backing into the intake tract though. Unless you are running meth injection your intake temps will be way too high with no intercooler and you will likely see detention. A/F ratios only tell half the story, get yourself a vag-com cable and see what your engine is really doing.http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2237911

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Old 11-28-2012, 01:22 PM   #7
mduck
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Thanks for the reply, someone was talking about adding a check valve on that red tube so boost dosent blow back in it, also could i just put small breather filter on the valve cover instead of outing them back to the intake pipe ?

As for high intake temps i understand the need for an intercooler, (i actually have one of a mazda someting but id have to make it fit), if im drawing air from outside the car into the turbo will it actually warm up that much?
Also how much will the stock ecu retard timing to prevent knock, i mean is it smart enough to retard timing when the knock sensor senses detonation? i will be running
94 octane in it, how much do i need to worry about this at 4-5 psi?

If it is a major concern ill plumb in the intercooler and get some kind of timing control device, its just that ive read in acouple place pleople running low boost with stock everything and not having trouble for a couple of years, but i guess every situation is different.

cheers
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:07 AM   #8
V8Slayer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mduck View Post
Thanks for the reply, someone was talking about adding a check valve on that red tube so boost dosent blow back in it, also could i just put small breather filter on the valve cover instead of outing them back to the intake pipe ?
The PCV valve is pretty much a check valve for your crank case so you're good there. Most tend to route the valve cover lines back into the intake tract but breather filters are another option for sure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mduck View Post
As for high intake temps i understand the need for an intercooler, (i actually have one of a mazda someting but id have to make it fit), if im drawing air from outside the car into the turbo will it actually warm up that much?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxdrvr;34555814IAT
going into throttle are usually MUCH higher than most people think, The average in normal driving 40*C/104*F to 11*C/52*F above ambient.
Just to give you an example of temps. Skip the Mazda intercooler and pick up one from a 2006 wrx or forester, its a perfect fit(see pic below) and you don't need to modify anything. I assume since you have the 2.5L you have a Legacy GT wagon, you would be able to take full advantage of your hood scoop now

Quote:
Originally Posted by mduck View Post
Also how much will the stock ecu retard timing to prevent knock, i mean is it smart enough to retard timing when the knock sensor senses detonation? i will be running
94 octane in it, how much do i need to worry about this at 4-5 psi?
The stock ECU can only do so much when it does sense knock. NA timing is pretty aggressive and not suited for boost, that is why everyone says to get some sort of engine management. The "general rule" is to remove 1-2* of timing for every 1psi your boosting. You can then gradually add timing back until you start getting knock, then you just back it off a degree or two. 94 is definitely going to help prevent knock but you still need a way to get more fuel into the cylinders. Where are you located?

Hope this helps.


Last edited by V8Slayer; 01-10-2013 at 05:56 PM. Reason: updated photo
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:45 AM   #9
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Ok, im getting a better picture of all this, im from the montreal area in quebec canada.

I actually bought a used Apexi safac for fuel contol but not really sure whats the best for timing control. I heard of j&s safeguard but i cant find it anywhere, same for the apexi itc..

What are you using as engine management ?

I will definitly look into getting an subby intercooler to run on the car and open up my scoop haha,

you have a nice setup, thanks for the info ill try and get another vid up this weekend of it running!
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:39 PM   #10
V8Slayer
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Oh ok, that makes sense now. I figured you were Canadian if you're running 94,I'm not aware of any stations in the USA that carry 94 octane, most seem to have 91 or 93.

An Apexi safc is a great place to start, you can adjust for more fuel and that will make things safer. Just keep checking the for sale section of www.sl-i.net, www.rs25.com and her on nasioc, every now and then an ITC or J&S pops up. If you don't have one yet, invest in a wideband O2 sensor that way you can tune properly. Personally I am running a PP6, it was $250 and worth every penny! I am able to adjust both fuel and timing and can switch between maps on the fly(I have 1 for 94, and 1 for meth).

Thanks for the complement on my set up. That was installed the Oct 7/12, I've cleaned it up since then and added a few new things. You engine will be much happier running an intercooler, it also looks bad ass when you can see the intercooler through your hood scoop haha. Yeah more vids please.
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:34 AM   #11
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Nice, i do have an AEM wideband that im hooking up and i will follow you instruction for loggin with the VAGCOM cable which i need to order.

I probably should have gotten the pp6 or emanage right away instead of the apexi safc but im new to this and kind of scared of getting a box with no interface to work with haha..

Do you have a build thread of your car? how much power are you putting down ? any 1/4 mile times ?
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:45 PM   #12
V8Slayer
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Sounds like you're almost set then. When it comes time to tune, add enough fuel with the safc to get to 11:1AFR, that will be nice and safe. You should be fine using the safc for now.

I actually don't have a build thread, I collected parts for 11 months and then just installed them when I had a weekend free. As far as how much power I'm making, I couldn't tell you. I am running a Td05H 16G @7 psi and am spraying a 50/50 mix of meth and water. The nearest AWD dyno is 14 hours away in Red Deer Alberta, its a little far to go just to get a printout lol, perhaps someone can take a guess If you think of anymore questions feel free to ask and I'll do my best to help you.
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:14 PM   #13
geronimo81
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If you're just doing 5psi then try running it without em. Why start complicating what could have been simple?
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:30 PM   #14
mduck
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Here's a first run with everything kind of together, still no intercooler and no tune, just poking into boost peaking at about 3 psi then dropping to 2 or so, hard to tell i really need a better boost gauge haha,
Steady a/f in the 11's and decent power increase, now to begin tuning ! and more boost haha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd9XN...ature=youtu.be
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:05 PM   #15
V8Slayer
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Haha nice, the boost gets addictive so watch out! Looks like things are coming together!
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:08 PM   #16
mduck
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ya i can imagine! Im picking up a wrx intercooler tomorow so ill throw that on this weekend, one question, anyone know what kind of vacuum it should be pulling at idle on my boost gauge ? im wondering if my gauge is screwed up because its reading more than 30 inhg at idle.. seems like alot or a my gauge is bad.

this project is fun lol
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:31 PM   #17
RedGauge
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30 is higher than i've ever had and higher than I've ever read. 20 is the usual. Not saying 30 is a problem.
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:13 PM   #18
V8Slayer
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You should be pulling right around 20inhg at idle.Since your seeing such a high number I would check for vacuum leaks, that will probably be the culprit. Glad to hear you're picking up the intercooler, what year is it off of?
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:37 PM   #19
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A high vacuum reading would not be a vacuum leak. A vacuum leak would cause a low reading.

Idle speed has an effect on the vacuum reading, check whether you are running stock idle speed.

Wouldn't the higher compression of an N/A engine also pull more vacuum than a turbo engine? I'm pretty sure it would.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:39 PM   #20
mduck
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Exactly my thoughts, the gauge is reading vaccum in the manifold behind the throttle plate, so if there was a leak it would'nt be as high, maybe its just the high compression, or the gauge is screwy, which scares me because im relying on it to read boost lol..

But with the same gauge on my old v6 camaro that i turboed i was reading 25 inhg at idle so maybe the gauge is just exagerating the figures, hopes it doing the same on the other end of the scale haha

the intercooler is off a 04 wrx, picked it up for 60$, i dont know if i will have fittement issues, i will try putting it on tomorow.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:38 PM   #21
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CRAP! 04 intercooler too big #!??!#@?!! Tryed everything to get it to fit but just no go..
time to search for one off an 06, gotta put back on my direct pipe for the moment haha, oh well.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:45 PM   #22
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I'm not sure what car you have, as I didn't watch the video, but most people have to trim some of the throttle body as well as the firewall in order to get the pre-06 intercoolers to fit. Just another option, if you have trouble finding a slim tmic.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:03 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mduck View Post
CRAP! 04 intercooler too big #!??!#@?!! Tryed everything to get it to fit but just no go..
time to search for one off an 06, gotta put back on my direct pipe for the moment haha, oh well.
It can be done but requires some trimming in a legacy.
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Old 12-12-2012, 01:50 PM   #24
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wow id like to see that lol, i timmed off every thing i could of the top of the tranny mount thing and the lip on the firewall, cut back the throttle bod and the intercooler lip.. its just too tight, mabe because i have a jdm 2.5 in i ? anyawys id like somthin that fits a bit better ...
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:41 PM   #25
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Update
Car was running strong, fixed a couple things, intake and exhaust leaks. running 5 psi on stock everything and full throttle air fuel stayed at around 11.8 11.9 which fine i guess.

Now i wired in my Apexi sAFC and then things got weird, not sure if iscrewed up but im getting rpm, throttle readings, but no air flow...
When i check the sensor check i get voltage in all points except the first which is sensor in 1 i believe. and the air flow reading stays at 0.0

The car kind of sputters under boost and the safc correction dont seem to affect my afr at all. weird. If anybody has input on this it would be great, i will also post in another section for piggyback information.

Thanks
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