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Old 11-29-2012, 11:00 AM   #1001
imma_stocker
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I has 400+whp on a stock longblock!!







And a catch can being put to work for it.
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:23 PM   #1002
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There is just no need for any thing near 4xx awhp. Its all about power to weight ratio, there is nothing wrong with 325-350ish, but any thing after that you will be breaking things.(axles,rears,trans,throw out berring,etc) that being said it is a fight alone to get to any thing near the 325 mark,and still be reliable.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:12 PM   #1003
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Just want to have some fun and this post saved me a TON of money and heartache. A good tune is in my future and maybe some brakes. I need to learn how to stop these beasts.
Thanks for the great posts.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:06 PM   #1004
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hmmmm really good for me to have read this...
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:04 PM   #1005
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Me again:

Updated what the cost is for a true 400+whp car. This is for a 2.0l 16bit ECU...and is becoming a dinosaur in the Subie tuning world. In reality, to make it "easier" so to speak, a Hydra EMS system would be ideal; however, I want to retain the car being as close to street "legal" as possible, and this adds cost to the build. -not to mention heartache to the tuner. haha

Build specs to date on the shopping list:

-Kelford 199-E cams ($850)
-SuperTech +1mm oversized int/exh valves ($220)
-SuperTech Springs/Ti retainers (possibly not necessary, but HIGHLY recommended)($320)
-ID 1000cc injectors ($520)
-coated intake manifold ($125)
-new head gaskets ($80)
-machine shop labor costs (~$800)
-short block inspection/ring/bearing replacements (~$300)
-Garrett GT3582R .82A/R (rotated/single scroll)($1550)
-custom FMIC/Up-pipe piping on top of APS DR525, custom downpipe, custom inlet/intake (retaining MAF pull through system) ($800)

-COBB Speed Density (new MAP sensor $200)
-Exhaust headers ($600)
-crap ton of heat wrap ($200)
-44mm EWG ($350)
-Element Tuning AOS/Catchcan ($299)
-Tune ($350)

This is on top of already existing on the car:

built ej257 motor
-CP 99.5mm 8.2CR pistons
-Manley rods
-newer OE STi Nitrided crank (Stock stroke)
-FULL STi 6spd swap w/Brembos, R180 rear end, and DCCDPro
-upgraded ACT SB4-HDSS clutch ($625)
-new OEM STi flywheel ($209)
...in addition to all this there are a crap ton of chassis/steering/suspension upgrades to make all this power "safe". But seriously, nothing beats common sense when behind the wheel and knowing your own capabilities. Not to mention being honest with yourself about said capabilities.

I don't even want to add that up because I'm sure I'll hang my head and do a facepalm. But this'll be a true 400+whp car on probably 99% of the dynos out there, and much fun for me to have.

Previous to this car made 327whp/310wtq with pretty much all bolt on stuff with an OE mounted turbo (Blouch 1.5XT-R).

The purpose of this is not bragging rights, but a realistic cost analysis for a reliable 400whp car, so that anyone else out there new or veteran subie owners can make an informed decision. Obviously this is isolated to a 2.0l 16bit ECU car. The later models, 06+ will have a different variant of modifications needed more than likely.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:49 PM   #1006
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What is it like driving a 400+ whp AWD Suby? Like, for example, lets say you're in a stock Ford Focus and you press the gas pedal down three inches.... you're going to get a nice but slow and steady increase in speed. Now, if you press on a 400+ whp AWD Suby gas pedal that same amount in first or second gear, is it going to be a smooth and controlable gain, or will that same pressure on the pedal make the car lunge like a rocket, thus making it extremely difficult to drive in traffic of any kind?

In other words, how gingerly do you have to milk the pedal when the car is that powerful?
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:49 PM   #1007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomsdayFAN View Post
What is it like driving a 400+ whp AWD Suby? Like, for example, lets say you're in a stock Ford Focus and you press the gas pedal down three inches.... you're going to get a nice but slow and steady increase in speed. Now, if you press on a 400+ whp AWD Suby gas pedal that same amount in first or second gear, is it going to be a smooth and controlable gain, or will that same pressure on the pedal make the car lunge like a rocket, thus making it extremely difficult to drive in traffic of any kind?

In other words, how gingerly do you have to milk the pedal when the car is that powerful?
A 400whp subaru is more than likely going to have a fairly large sized turbo on it. So unless the driver has the car in, say, third or fourth gear at 3500-4k on the tac, then yeah it's gonna rocket off when the gas pedal is mashed to the floor. But it's a turbo, not a on/off switch like a supercharger might be. So it's going to have to spool up first, but it's going to be a hard spool and start pressing the driver into the seat. A gradual increase on the throttle will be a gradual increase in speed. ...generally speaking.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:53 PM   #1008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomsdayFAN View Post
What is it like driving a 400+ whp AWD Suby? Like, for example, lets say you're in a stock Ford Focus and you press the gas pedal down three inches.... you're going to get a nice but slow and steady increase in speed. Now, if you press on a 400+ whp AWD Suby gas pedal that same amount in first or second gear, is it going to be a smooth and controlable gain, or will that same pressure on the pedal make the car lunge like a rocket, thus making it extremely difficult to drive in traffic of any kind?

In other words, how gingerly do you have to milk the pedal when the car is that powerful?
Good question. Since most high HP subarus have large turbos, it would depend on what gear/rpm. For instance your on the hiway cruising and push the pedal down "three inches", it will accel quicker then the focus for sure...but the lag from the big turbo would not give you an instant and unmanagble power increase. If u slammed it and were in the correct gear (passing someone for instance) where the turnbo was spooled then this is when you would get the rush quickly. Example: you may be crusising at 2000rpm on the hiway, punch it in 5 gear, but with your gearing and low rpm it will take a while to get that neck breaking push. On the flip side your in 3 waiting to pass some shmuck on the on ramp..find an opening and floor it- you will hit your sweet spot (3500rpm for say a big gt30r turbo) and BOOM your off!

long story short..it is not unmanagble. I have driven high hp 1700lb volkswagens, HUGE hp supras and 330whp sti's (mine)..none of which are unmanagble unless your a dummy
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:12 AM   #1009
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I see. I was worried that if I ever, for whatever reason, got my car up that high in the power range it'd be an uncontrolable wreck in slow traffic. (There is a video of this guy on youtube who has a Z06 with a fully built NA motor, but he says driving it in slow traffic is terrible and it's like driving a cement truck). I would never want the Suby to feel like that.

Speaking of the slow spooling huge turbos, like the GT40R... what can be done to make them maintain their monsterous power, yet spool up quicker? Port & Polish?
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:48 AM   #1010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomsdayFAN View Post
I see. I was worried that if I ever, for whatever reason, got my car up that high in the power range it'd be an uncontrolable wreck in slow traffic. (There is a video of this guy on youtube who has a Z06 with a fully built NA motor, but he says driving it in slow traffic is terrible and it's like driving a cement truck). I would never want the Suby to feel like that.

Speaking of the slow spooling huge turbos, like the GT40R... what can be done to make them maintain their monsterous power, yet spool up quicker? Port & Polish?
Good question: Few things..
  • Increase stroke
  • Increasing compression
  • Larger IC piping
  • Larger DP
  • Optimal sizes intake piping/filter
  • Wrap your turbo/dp/header
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:49 AM   #1011
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....or get a smaller turbo
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:46 PM   #1012
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It should have a consistent powerband and that is key. Whether your car is stock or 500whp doesn't matter. You WILL need to re-learn how to drive your car when you do major mods.
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:49 AM   #1013
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I really want to build my wrx the right way to run safely around the 350 range. I'm waiting a little to see if i really want to dive in because i know by the time I'm done ill have at least 10 grand in it. Id love to do a full build (motor tranny suspension) and make around 500 but we all know that unless you're rich thats not happening lol I've driven a few very powerful cars but they were all rear wheel drive and man was that **** ridiculous... i drive my brothers 5.0 mustang every once and a while on 7.5 psi (centrifugal) that made 586 to the wheels and its very true when you say you're at 100 mph before you know it. and breaking traction at 60+ mph when boost comes in is kinda scary haha the other car was a built Z06 that dynoed at 842, it was fully built and spray along with some boost and honestly i got on it once and backed out because i didn't want to **** up someone else's car lol don't ask me the point of my post because i have no idea what it was lol but the OP is right. anything near 400 whp is nothing to **** with unless you have experience with powerful cars. Oh and i drove my cousins GLI thats bored out and fully built block and head with forged internals on 28 psi which made 482 at the wheels. It hooked better than i thought... after 80 lol but thats a lot of power for a 2004 gli.. and the owner is still scared to drive it hard because he is not used to driving such a powerful car. even though its his DD haha

Last edited by Gregor91; 12-18-2012 at 02:58 AM.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:34 AM   #1014
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Thank you Defiant, this post cleared a lot up for me.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:18 AM   #1015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stangy View Post
Good question: Few things..
  • Increase stroke
  • Increasing compression
  • Larger IC piping
  • Larger DP
  • Optimal sizes intake piping/filter
  • Wrap your turbo/dp/header
pre-turbo water injection
pre-turbo nitrous (just a quick like half second blast)
flipped intake manifold (shorten the pipeing from IC to manifold=less volume=faster response)
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:45 PM   #1016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rek888v2 View Post
My old STi was roughly 320-340 (Never offically dyno'd) and that scared the hell out of me on city streets. My STi now is 269/290 with a consertive tune (wife driving her while Im in Iraq) and she still ran a 12.83 while I was on leave 2 weeks ago. She scares me too! These kids putting all this money into their cars need to take that money, put it away in savings or buy driving lessons.

The best mod you can ever do is tune the nut attached to the steering wheel (thats yourself for you slow people!)

+1 on this getting Stickied. Very good thread!
I am new to this forum and currently i am at work but when I read this I started laughing soo hard i almost cried. nothing like tuning yourselves lol.
btw how do you even get your wife to run your car at the track. I tried forcing my girlfriend to do a run in my old 12 second civic but unfortunatly that was a fail
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:04 PM   #1017
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Read it again. He stated that he ran it while on leave.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:54 AM   #1018
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awesome article. Good read and very resourceful.

Now starting to feel silly about trying to build a 400hp GC8 for track lol...
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:49 AM   #1019
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Did you ever take it too the drag stip and go all out to see what kind of times you could run? Think it's possible to hit in the 11s with 400 whp? (Especially if youve got on lighter wheels)
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:56 AM   #1020
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Stage 1 is just a tune, stage 2 is a tune with a downpipe. You can go directly to any "stage" you want really. You could go straight to a turbo swap with all the supporting mods if you want, just need a tune for it.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:08 PM   #1021
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Default Great post

I would have to agree with everything said. I have gone from acura and Honda to Volvo turbo and audi. And now diving into subaru I recently purchased a 04 forester xt which has been seriously built. Engine rebuilt ground up with new pistons, rings, valves, ported and polished. Full turbo XS rotated turbo system with huge TMIC. Huge header with screamer pipe and larger up/down pipes and custom exhaust with all cats removed and ECU replaced with sti one and re worked to throw no codes for smog. I met with the previous owner and the tuner and the two mechanics at the shop it was built at before I bought it. And it's been awesome and dyno sheet showed 343 HP 347 torque. And even those numbers are shocking when driving it u do have to be ready when you throw all that to four tires cause things in front of you get close fast! My debate on if I wanted more power was quickly answered. And while I may shoot for 10-20 more getting to 400 is really not necessary.
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:27 AM   #1022
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Great article.good
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:49 AM   #1023
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i really like this post. i recently got away from my strange OBS obsession and upgraded to an 04 wrx wagon. ive got the slightly ambitious goal of 400whp on the 2.0 possibly more if i can swing it. but ive had too much time behind the wheel of many different high powered FWD and RWD cars to underestimate a subaru. i consider myself a fairly experienced driver but when i first drove a subaru it was an automatic 97 OBS and the entire FEEL of the car is different. The AWD is a whole new animal to those like me used to older muscle cars and american vehicles in general. yes im shooting for 400+ at the wheels but my biggest goal is to do it slowly enough to continue to get used to how a subie drives. by the time i get to 400 i want to have gone through a large range of power levels in my car. and to anyone who even has experience with the FWD and RWD high powered vehicles i recommend doing the same in an import.
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:11 AM   #1024
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If you have driving experience with those high power cars, ok fine, YOU may be safe.


But the cost doesn't change. And I would bet whatever cars you are used to, are cheaper to hit 400whp reliably than a Subaru. I can't think of many cars that are more expensive to get to 400whp, reliably, than a Subaru.


Nowadays your best and easiest path to 400whp is a used 2012 mustang, an intake and a reflash. Boom. 400whp. Hell a bolt on magnussen supercharger a catback, a pulley a boost a pump and some tuning (under 10k) will put you over 600whp pretty reliably.

Last edited by Davenow; 12-30-2012 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:31 AM   #1025
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Very informative. Thanks for the input.
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