Throttle body coolant mod 5-10 WHP gain - Page 11

ride5000 · 06-20-2012, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UK-Wagon

Its not a huge difference in temp

agreed.

Quote:

but anything helps.

agreed.

Quote:

So no....

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DDScooby · 06-20-2012, 09:30 AM

I asked my tuner (Chris @ EFI Logics) No gains whatsoever from this mod...

Added note to UK-Wagon, he's absolutely correct. I was born and raised in Alaska and unless you're North of the Arctic Circle then no TB is gonna stick due to weather outside. Where that notion came from is beyond me but people need to go back and learn about thermal dynamics and condensation properties with metals. :-/

Does it REALLY assist w/cold start ups? Maybe, but I don't see how, it'll heat up the intake charge about 3 minutes faster in weather below 32*(0*C)...so really? sticking? Cold start up? I don't buy it, but the idea is sound so why not just leave it alone, it doesn't hurt or gain you anything by just not touching it.

taejin · 06-20-2012, 09:50 AM

There seems to be an overall benefit (how much is still being argued...)

Im thinking this would be a much more beneficialmod for those in high temp areas... Az is usually 105 deg+ for the summer months (upward (of 115 certain days). I noticed my intake temps rise REALLY fast at idle (ie 30 degree jump in a matter of seconds) so I would think every little thing to help air temps in these types of climates would have even more benefit.

Im in for this one. Did it on my old civic with no freezing issues (did not see much benefit though lol) but it does make a lot of sense for a turbo car. Im gonna try anything at this point....

annoyedmycarisknocking.

ride5000 · 06-20-2012, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDScooby

I asked my tuner (Chris @ EFI Logics) No gains whatsoever from this mod...

chris needs to learn some physics.

it absolutely flabbergasts me that nobody understands engine tuning 101:

every little bit adds up.

it's not up for debate.

i guess that's why the real art of engine tuning is dead; people just slap on big turbos, big ics, and big injectors and call it done. meanwhile, smokey yunick rolls in his grave.

Ernest · 06-20-2012, 03:35 PM

For everyone who does not believe in this mod. Please go to your house and take your hot water heater outlet line and run it next to or touching the cold water line. Or take your AC compressor and put it in the sun or maybe get one of those propane heaters and heat the coolant lines. See how efficient or well things work out.

This mod is common sense whether you can prove HP gain or performance its common sense that removing heat will help.

Jessekrs123 · 12-11-2012, 07:59 PM

oops, posted in wrong thread, sorry.

lechugas · 12-12-2012, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prometheum

^^hmm live in alaska...probably shouldn't do this

^^ yeah dont do it

hoffmanEstates · 12-12-2012, 06:43 AM

I have performed this 5 years ago when i was installing my larger tmic. Have had 0 issues and i been in central WI winters and Chicago summers. I notice during summer my TB is not "burn my hand off" hot. I wonder if you accompanied this mod with phenolic spacers ya just might get a whp or two....

rkramer · 12-12-2012, 09:42 AM

thought this thread would have died off long ago!

At WOT, air spends .00005 seconds passing through the throttle body. Any heating affect is going to be so inconsequential there isn't a dyno in the world that will be able to detect it. So yes, it is costing you power, like .0005 hp. (all numbers are completely made up)

But on the other side of the coin, doing this 'mod' WILL cost you mileage. Cold air is good for power when you are at WOT, but cold air costs you mileage when you aren't at WOT. Search around the hypermiler forums, they do hot air intakes! For normal city driving where you are doing a fair amount of idling, not having the heated air will cause more fuel to be dumped in, plain and simple. (numerous factors cause that, i'd suspect the poor atomization of the fuel is the leading one.) My own testing as well as many others supports this, when you do this mod your mileage will suffer.

As someone previously mentioned, you would get more of a power boost by removing your floormats. Of course, that would also increase your mileage. In the case of this mod, you get zero measurable increase in power, but will absolutely be able to document your mileage drop if you keep accurate records. (also depending on your driving, more stop and go and this would have a larger impact.)

Faster_Gun · 12-12-2012, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkramer

thought this thread would have died off long ago!

At WOT, air spends .00005 seconds passing through the throttle body. Any heating affect is going to be so inconsequential there isn't a dyno in the world that will be able to detect it. So yes, it is costing you power, like .0005 hp. (all numbers are completely made up)

But on the other side of the coin, doing this 'mod' WILL cost you mileage. Cold air is good for power when you are at WOT, but cold air costs you mileage when you aren't at WOT. Search around the hypermiler forums, they do hot air intakes! For normal city driving where you are doing a fair amount of idling, not having the heated air will cause more fuel to be dumped in, plain and simple. (numerous factors cause that, i'd suspect the poor atomization of the fuel is the leading one.) My own testing as well as many others supports this, when you do this mod your mileage will suffer.

As someone previously mentioned, you would get more of a power boost by removing your floormats. Of course, that would also increase your mileage. In the case of this mod, you get zero measurable increase in power, but will absolutely be able to document your mileage drop if you keep accurate records. (also depending on your driving, more stop and go and this would have a larger impact.)

You're telling me you want hot air? Just run your compressor side to your throttle body. **** innercoolers. I mean... the air crosses through the turbo for like .00005 seconds so its probably the same temperature as ambient. You're going to get so many miles per gallon dude. It'll be sweet.

Just some thoughts off the top of my head:
The fact of the matter is everything adds up. More dense air is better because it holds more O2 per volume, hence why we run innercoolers and in any serious "Power Proven Bragging" thread ambient temperature and elevation are recorded. On top of that more O2 will result in a slightly lean condition. (Better MPG?) Further more this shares the same concept as the TGV to head spacers, all trying to reduce IAT at the heads via reduction in heat transfer.

Realize what the throttle body is connected to an intake manifold and some sort of piping, all of which the throttle body is going to try to do its best to heat up to 195*F. I would like to see data on OD plenum temps before and after this mod, with and without thermal spacers to the heads.

Will I expect to see 5-10awhp? Hell no.

DDScooby · 12-12-2012, 12:46 PM

For a daily driven street car that doesn't see a track, except once in a blue moon. Then this makes no sense to do. For people that do Time Attack, Straights and rally courses then yeah I can see this + every other little tweek to squeeze every ounce of power out of the motor to gain an additional ~20whp/10tq. Sure if you have the throttle body off to do another mod (i.e. TGV deletes, injectors, inlet/intake. etc...) then yeah, by all means. But hurting or benefiting isn't going to affect the butt dyno or longevity of the car. Either way...up to the end user to decide if he or she wants to do it.

Ernest · 12-12-2012, 08:37 PM

Did it years ago - no harm, maybe no benefit. I am going with every little bit helps. Some times a take a **** before I drive and the car just flies!

CalvinT · 12-13-2012, 11:24 PM

I'd be hesitant to use any brass fittings in any coolant connections. There was an End Wrench article that warned against using coolant flushing machines. There were several reasons given. One was the possibility cross contamination with copper ions if the machine had been used on a vehicle with brass or copper radiators. It could cause a reaction with the Subaru coolant.

in November 2008 Subaru approved the Wynn PowerFlush III coolant exchange machine since it uses three tanks that allow it to perform a clean water flush but it seems to me the warning about or copper ions would still apply.

I'd go with aluminum, stainless steel or plastic rated for cooling system use.

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06-20-2012, 09:30 AM	#252
DDScooby Scooby Newbie Member#: 161876 Join Date: Oct 2007 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Bristol, CT Vehicle: 02 Impreza WRX WRB	I asked my tuner (Chris @ EFI Logics) No gains whatsoever from this mod... Added note to UK-Wagon, he's absolutely correct. I was born and raised in Alaska and unless you're North of the Arctic Circle then no TB is gonna stick due to weather outside. Where that notion came from is beyond me but people need to go back and learn about thermal dynamics and condensation properties with metals. :-/ Does it REALLY assist w/cold start ups? Maybe, but I don't see how, it'll heat up the intake charge about 3 minutes faster in weather below 32(0C)...so really? sticking? Cold start up? I don't buy it, but the idea is sound so why not just leave it alone, it doesn't hurt or gain you anything by just not touching it.

06-20-2012, 09:50 AM	#253
taejin Scooby Newbie Member#: 318541 Join Date: Apr 2012 Vehicle: 2011 WRX Satin White Pearl	There seems to be an overall benefit (how much is still being argued...) Im thinking this would be a much more beneficialmod for those in high temp areas... Az is usually 105 deg+ for the summer months (upward (of 115 certain days). I noticed my intake temps rise REALLY fast at idle (ie 30 degree jump in a matter of seconds) so I would think every little thing to help air temps in these types of climates would have even more benefit. Im in for this one. Did it on my old civic with no freezing issues (did not see much benefit though lol) but it does make a lot of sense for a turbo car. Im gonna try anything at this point.... annoyedmycarisknocking.

06-20-2012, 03:35 PM	#255
Ernest Scooby Specialist Member#: 45076 Join Date: Oct 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Rockland County, NY Vehicle: 2004 Stg2 Wagon 4eat Silver	For everyone who does not believe in this mod. Please go to your house and take your hot water heater outlet line and run it next to or touching the cold water line. Or take your AC compressor and put it in the sun or maybe get one of those propane heaters and heat the coolant lines. See how efficient or well things work out. This mod is common sense whether you can prove HP gain or performance its common sense that removing heat will help.

12-11-2012, 07:59 PM	#256
Jessekrs123 Scooby Specialist Member#: 236927 Join Date: Jan 2010 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Oakville CT Vehicle: 1993 Legacy Sedan 1984 BRAT	oops, posted in wrong thread, sorry.

12-12-2012, 06:43 AM	#258
hoffmanEstates Scooby Guru Member#: 122043 Join Date: Aug 2006 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: aurora Vehicle: 04 wagonier psm	I have performed this 5 years ago when i was installing my larger tmic. Have had 0 issues and i been in central WI winters and Chicago summers. I notice during summer my TB is not "burn my hand off" hot. I wonder if you accompanied this mod with phenolic spacers ya just might get a whp or two....

12-12-2012, 09:42 AM	#259
rkramer Scooby Guru Member#: 118209 Join Date: Jun 2006 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: North Dakota Vehicle: 2002 WRX Sedan	thought this thread would have died off long ago! At WOT, air spends .00005 seconds passing through the throttle body. Any heating affect is going to be so inconsequential there isn't a dyno in the world that will be able to detect it. So yes, it is costing you power, like .0005 hp. (all numbers are completely made up) But on the other side of the coin, doing this 'mod' WILL cost you mileage. Cold air is good for power when you are at WOT, but cold air costs you mileage when you aren't at WOT. Search around the hypermiler forums, they do hot air intakes! For normal city driving where you are doing a fair amount of idling, not having the heated air will cause more fuel to be dumped in, plain and simple. (numerous factors cause that, i'd suspect the poor atomization of the fuel is the leading one.) My own testing as well as many others supports this, when you do this mod your mileage will suffer. As someone previously mentioned, you would get more of a power boost by removing your floormats. Of course, that would also increase your mileage. In the case of this mod, you get zero measurable increase in power, but will absolutely be able to document your mileage drop if you keep accurate records. (also depending on your driving, more stop and go and this would have a larger impact.)

12-12-2012, 12:46 PM	#261
DDScooby Scooby Newbie Member#: 161876 Join Date: Oct 2007 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Bristol, CT Vehicle: 02 Impreza WRX WRB	For a daily driven street car that doesn't see a track, except once in a blue moon. Then this makes no sense to do. For people that do Time Attack, Straights and rally courses then yeah I can see this + every other little tweek to squeeze every ounce of power out of the motor to gain an additional ~20whp/10tq. Sure if you have the throttle body off to do another mod (i.e. TGV deletes, injectors, inlet/intake. etc...) then yeah, by all means. But hurting or benefiting isn't going to affect the butt dyno or longevity of the car. Either way...up to the end user to decide if he or she wants to do it.

12-12-2012, 08:37 PM	#262
Ernest Scooby Specialist Member#: 45076 Join Date: Oct 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Rockland County, NY Vehicle: 2004 Stg2 Wagon 4eat Silver	Did it years ago - no harm, maybe no benefit. I am going with every little bit helps. Some times a take a **** before I drive and the car just flies!

12-13-2012, 11:24 PM	#263
CalvinT Scooby Newbie Member#: 329025 Join Date: Aug 2012 Chapter/Region: SWIC Location: AZ Vehicle: 2002 WRX Wagon Aspen White	I'd be hesitant to use any brass fittings in any coolant connections. There was an End Wrench article that warned against using coolant flushing machines. There were several reasons given. One was the possibility cross contamination with copper ions if the machine had been used on a vehicle with brass or copper radiators. It could cause a reaction with the Subaru coolant. in November 2008 Subaru approved the Wynn PowerFlush III coolant exchange machine since it uses three tanks that allow it to perform a clean water flush but it seems to me the warning about or copper ions would still apply. I'd go with aluminum, stainless steel or plastic rated for cooling system use.