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Old 12-12-2012, 02:38 PM   #26
quentinberg007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sxotty View Post
Here Quentin thanks for not being persnickety about it.
http://papers.sae.org/2012-01-1006/?PC=VIDEO
In the abstract


Shika your own link says they have to be charge balanced. I don't see why you would cite something backing up what I said then complain about not having evidence for it...
Thanks for the link. I'm at a loss at why ex-Prius drivers could hit the EPA numbers in their Prius but can't in the Cmax then.
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:53 PM   #27
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Like I said the Prius and especially the V simply cannot be driven as aggressively. They don't have the power so it is impossible to deviate as much from the EPA test. Think of it like a normal bell curve. If you have a less powerful vehicle you cut off more outliers that would otherwise drive significantly faster. They simply cannot accelerate as quickly even if they floor it. So the results are skewed which moves the average.

Now companies could tune their vehicles to do better under higher load (maybe your GTI was like that since you did quite well you said), but they can also tune them for hitting the EPA test targets and I assume they do (it could even be argued this is a good idea since the EPA tests are supposed to reflect real life).

I have seem some efficiency maps from ford in the past and they did have significant variation depending on load (I am sure all companies do, but I haven't looked at all companies). If you google "engine efficiency map load" or something similar you can find such test results.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:44 PM   #28
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AFAIK, EPA test cycles are defined as certain acceleration targets one must hit. They're not phrased as "accelerate with 50% of the vehicle's capability." Capability in excess of that required to meet the test cycle parameters should be irrelevant.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:16 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
AFAIK, EPA test cycles are defined as certain acceleration targets one must hit. They're not phrased as "accelerate with 50% of the vehicle's capability." Capability in excess of that required to meet the test cycle parameters should be irrelevant.
Jeez it is very relevant Shika.

If I give you a car that can ONLY make the EPA test cycle acceleration you CANNOT accelerate faster and get worse mileage. If I give you a Viper you can accelerate much faster and get worse mileage. Then you can bad mouth Dodge and say they are terrible b/c they don't meet the EPA ratings...that is what all these threads are about besides the Hyundai and Kia cheating thing.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:49 AM   #30
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Ah, I parsed that incorrectly. I thought you were saying the EPA test cycle results would be affected. Sure, give people a ton of power and some will use it and get worse mileage.

On the other hand, perhaps they'd inadvertently engage in pulse and glide techniques: I bet the BSFC curves bear out that efficiency is greater at greater-than-EPA-cycle loads...
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:20 AM   #31
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Nothing against Ford, but I dont get their marketing adds with the C-Max attaking the Prius V. How they came up with the idea that C-Max is comparable to a Prius V is beyond me. I have sat in both and let me tell you the V is much much bigger than a C-Max. It had the room and cargo of a mid size SUV.

The C-Max is actually more of a match in size to the standard Prius.

I have also noticed a trend at fuelly.com. Most of the C-Max there strugle to reach or exceed the estimated EPA average while most Prius models easilly surpass it.

Last edited by Otobot; 12-13-2012 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:02 AM   #32
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MPG needs to die.

As MPG numbers get higher and higher, the numbers shown and the numbers in real world are going to be more and more disparate, even though the percentage that they are different might be the same.

it wasn't a big deal when a truck claimed 15 mpg but the best a driver could get was 13mpg, but because the numbers are only 2 away from each other, it's not a big deal, but when it's 40mpg real world, vs 47mpg advertised, omg, the sky is falling!

Reality is, that the yearly difference in price between 40 and 47mpg is about $150.

Even if you made 14mpg instead of 15mpg on your truck the price difference was higher than that ($200).

meh, stupid way of displaying gas mileage is stupid and needs to go away.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:04 AM   #33
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The C-Max is actually more of a match in size to the standard Prius.
Actually it's right in the middle, slightly closer to a V than a regular Prius. Oddly enough, or not, it's priced in the middle of the two, as well.

Prius = 39.6
C-Max = 54.3
Prius V = 67.3

I'm also thinking that the V isn't exactly as big as a mid-size SUV, either.

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MPG needs to die.
1000% agree. It's way past time to switch to G/100M or something similar.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:33 PM   #34
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I actually like the V but it is incredibly slow. I was debating between picking up a used escape hybrid or something else, but then I decided to wait for a V at some future point. Maybe they will actually do the PHEV Prius V someday. The c-max is just too small.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:59 PM   #35
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I actually like the V but it is incredibly slow. I was debating between picking up a used escape hybrid or something else, but then I decided to wait for a V at some future point. Maybe they will actually do the PHEV Prius V someday. The c-max is just too small.
I'm a huge fan of my v. It is slow, but not dangerously slow or anything. I drive mostly in Eco mode so it feels much faster for the rare occasion I want to use power mode. The threshold for the traction control is very low, though. I was driving it pretty hard down a twisty, 4 mile downhill section to my parents' house and the TC/SC lights lit up. Space wise, the car is fantastic. I've stuffed it full on around 5 long trips that would have put us in the 4Runner had I just opted for the Prius liftback. I may give up 15% in fuel economy to the liftback, but I can take the v on far more trips than I would the liftback because of the great cargo space.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:14 PM   #36
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Yeah I think you told me it is like a 12s 0-60 time though which is pretty slow now days. It could be worse my 1990 4runner had a 15s 0-60 time. I remember turning the AC off and so forth when trying to pass to give me enough power to get around a vehicle before getting in a head on collision. You had to get a run at it as well white knuckles on the steering wheel hoping that it would be clear by the time you got up near their bumper... It was pretty awful Anyway eventually I am going to have to get a bigger car/vehicle and the V is as of now the top of my list. I would give up a few MPG though if it had more ground clearance as well. That is one of the things I hate about the Volt (besides it being small) it is just super low to the ground. The V is reasonable, but I never mind a little more space under there.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:21 PM   #37
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