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Old 12-13-2012, 04:18 PM   #1
68Cadillac
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Default E Modified Engine Build - Factory Five 818


I'm in line to get one of the Factory Five Racing 818R kits. It's a Mid-Engined, Rear Wheel Drive car using a WRX as a donor.

I plan to run it primarily in SCCA's Solo E Modified (a.k.a: EMod or EM) class, and need to build or install a motor that qualifies it for the lowest weight allowed.

The minimum weight for EM for an engine displacing less than 3200 cc naturally aspirated or less than 2,285.7 cc forced induction (3200cc / 1.4 SCCA fudge factor = 2285.7cc) is 1750lb. That's 1700 lb plus the modified tub addition of 50lb. Modified tub in this case means "kit car". I assumed anyone that prepared a chassis for EM wouldn't take the 50lb reduction in minimum weight by having the drive wheels have less than 51% of the total vehicle weight on them and would opt for 40%/60% distribution. 1750 includes the driver.

My donor parts are coming from a 2006 or 2007 WRX. I've a local breaker acquiring me a salvage one as I type. So the block, heads, ECU, drivetrain, suspension sans struts, brakes, steering, pedals, wiring, and gauges will all come from that car.

Ultimately my goal is 400 whp max on E85 with a nice wide powerband like you need for Solo. Keep in mind that this is NOT an AWD install, but RWD. I don't think I could ever hook up 400 rwhp in a 1750 lb car, but it'd be nice to bring more motor than needed and have to tune back the boost because the tires just spin.


So knowing that the maximum displacement is 2,285.7 cc, I've looked at various combinations to get there:

Code:
+ 					Bore 	Stroke 	cm^3
EJ205					92.0 	75.0 	1994.3
EJ22T 	--------------------------	96.9 	75.0 	2212.4
EJ25x 					99.5 	79.0 	2457.1
Hybrid 	--------------------------	99.5 	75.0 	2332.7
EJ22T +1 piston ------------------ 	97.5 	75.0 	2239.9
EJ22T +2 piston ------------------	98.0 	75.0 	2262.9
De-stroke, EJ25x Piston -----------	99.5 	73.4 	2282.9
De-stroke, EJ25x oversize Piston 	100.0 	72.7 	2283.9
De-stroke, EJ25x oversize Piston 	100.0 	72.0 	2261.9
De-stroke, EJ25x oversize Piston 	100.0 	71.0 	2230.5
Custom Piston/Stock Stroke 		98.0 	75.0 	2262.9
EJ15 Crank/EJ25x oversize Piston 	100.0 	65.8 	2067.2
4" Piston/Custom Stroke -----------	101.6 	70.4 	2283.0
Ridiculous 				103 	68.5 	2283.0
Having read a lot of 3MI/Homemade WRX and Maxwell Powers posts I'm leaning toward +4mm (134.5mm) rods, a 75mm crankshaft, and 98mm custom pistons.

Short Block
Block: 2006 or 2007 WRX
Crankshaft: OEM EJ205 75mm stoke P/N 12200AA240, destroker with crossdrilling for better oiling
Rods: 136.5mm center-to-center "+6" rods if possible, else 134.5mm center-to-center "+4" rods
Pistons: Slugs for 98mm bore, compression distance 28.7mm (e.i stroker pistons), compression ratio ?, looking at JE's FSR's
Rings: ?
Sleeves: Darton P/N 300-030 for 97-100mm bores
Bearings: ?

Heads
Headgasket: Custom Cometic for 98mm bore and thickness to make up for any decking work
Heads: D25 from 2006 or 2007 WRX
Porting/Blending: Yes
Camshaft: Kelford R-199-C with supporting springs and retainers
Valves: +1mm
Buckets: shimless

Other
Intake Manifold: 2.5i, big plenum, no tgv
Intercooling: Air-Water
Extra Cooling: Water injection maybe. SCCA prohibits water-meth injection.
Turbo: ?
Wastegate: External
ECU: 2006 or 2007 WRX, Opensource Pro Tune
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Last edited by 68Cadillac; 02-11-2013 at 11:40 PM. Reason: striking through everything 3MI shotdown
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:32 AM   #2
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Got your PM. We'll talk shortly and I'll get some feedback from what you're looking for.

I think I already have your build in my head, where it has been sitting for about three years
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:51 AM   #3
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Thank you 3MI. The only things that are really fixed are the donor parts (e.i. d25 head castings, 2006 or 2007 block halves and ecu.

I'm open to 100mm bores, 71mm custom stroke (weld and machine back to stock bearing journal diameter), and 136.5mm (+6) rods if there's anything to be had there with less headaches than custom 98mm slugs, custom headgaskets, and 99.5mm d25 heads chambers not mating up correct with 98mm sleeves.

Last edited by 68Cadillac; 12-14-2012 at 12:35 PM. Reason: engrish be reel hard, yo
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:21 AM   #4
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A 20g, or it's variants, would be nice here. GLWB, sub'd.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:25 PM   #5
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I'm doing an 818s build but I will definitely follow yours!! Will be cool to see all the variations that people are going to create.

Matt
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:08 PM   #6
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3MI's Micah and I chatted today and he was able to talk me down from some of my crazy. He also reminded me several times that offset grinding a crankshaft to a shorter stroke has the effect of also reducing the compression ratio. So if I wanted to go the route of offset grinding that means customized crankshaft, smaller (52mm or 48 mm) rod bearings, custom rods, and custom pistons. Dolla Dolla bills. So that's out.

Micah asked about running the next weight class up: 1850 lb. This allows "unlimited" displacement. But as appealing as that is, the fastest times in Solo are not determined by HP so much as they are by: 1, driver skill; 2, ability to maintain high speeds through corners; 3, ability to brake quickly; and 4, acceleration. Running ~6% more weight than other competitors would hurt both 2 and 3.
Quote:
Modified Class (EM)
Modified Production and GT cars as follows:
A. Weight (with driver) vs. Displacement
-Piston engines up to & including 3200 cc OHC: 1700 lbs
-Piston engines up to & including 4500 cc pushrod/OHV: 1700 lbs
-2-rotor rotary engines w/ unrestricted porting: 1700 lbs
-Piston engines unlimited displacement: 1800 lbs
3-rotor rotary engines w/ unrestricted porting: 1800 lbs
B. Performance Adjustments
- AWD: Add 300 lbs
-Modified Tub: Add 50 lbs
C. Weight Bias Adjustment - with driver sitting in the driver’s seat
-RWD w/ less than 51% weight on drive wheels: Deduct 50 lbs
-FWD: Deduct 50 lbs
He tossed around several ideas but came back to the EJ22T several times. He brought up supercharging instead of turbocharging. I brought up twincharging and he laughed.

He said he needed to think about it more.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:57 AM   #7
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It sounds like that is the best place to start.

Do you think the extra 70cc's going to make a difference for you in a 1750lb package?

No sarcasm, serious question.

Or are you planning on an overbored 2.2?

Either way, it seems like the most cost effective choice.

BTW: Love the F5 818...I hope the hardtop "high efficiency" model will still have the ability to use the Subaru engine if desired, even though they are planning on using another engine package for that.

Can't wait to see this project get started.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tachrev View Post
Do you think the extra 70cc's going to make a difference for you in a 1750lb package?

No sarcasm, serious question.
Good question. Made me think about my priorities with this engine. Knowing that my power goal is "only" 400 rear wheel horsepower but more important than the peak is the area under the curve of the powerband. Peaky power, brag on the internet power: bad. Wide, flat predictable power: good. Next goal would be reliability. Guess that means I'm gonna pay.

So will the extra 70cc's make a difference considering my power goals? No. Probably should just stick with the EJ22t and do a +1 overbore just to get the cylinders straight and be done.

Is it fairly straight forward to bolt D25 heads to an EJ22t shortblock and have a 2006-2007 ECU run it all?
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:12 PM   #9
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I've seen no mention of gearing.

How can you get into the real details of motor without talking gearing or gearbox?
I don't really think you're going to be able to make a "1 gear engine" I think you're going to have to use at least 2 gears. Given that, and I'm assuming you're looking at a Subaru 5MT transmission....which two gears do you want to use on a 5MT? I hope your answer is not 1st and 2nd... I'd think it would be 2nd and 3rd.

Right now you're just speculating. How much boost will you be able to comfortably control? The Porsche 914 swap guy had PLENTY of low end on a basic EJ207 swap and had to limit boost. He also has a thread in the conversions forum: here. You may want to talk with him. He had some custom 2-speed purpose-built transmission.

Talk to him about his ratios and where he finds himself. His car isn't your car, but it's a lot closer than most Subaru guys.

A wide powerband is great, but if you're using a Subaru 5MT, you need to worry about the 2-->1 downshift, IMO. You can't go to too rev-happy an engine without forcing yourself into that downshift due to the very few options of 2nd gears. It's possible that 79mm stroke is better for you than a 75mm or less stroke just to keep yourself out of 1st, but I'd think the 75mm stroke would still have plenty of torque for such a light vehicle... especially given the 914 guy's experience with the 2.0L, where you'll have 10% more displacement and likely higher compression than a stock EJ207. You've also not mentioned CR... I'd assume you really only need ~15 lbs of boost, which should mean you can run at least 11:1 CR on E, probably even higher.

Pick 2 gears and build your engine around 2 gears, the best theoretical engine is not going to perform great if every run is seeing significant shifting into 1st and 3rd. It's possible that a less "optimal" engine will be better if you spend the money you would have spent doing a super-special all custom engine on something like a special 2 gear tranny modification to remove a ton of rotating weight... for example. I mean, you think a lightweight flywheel is good, what about completely removing all the weight of 1st, 4th and 5th?

Last edited by Concillian; 12-18-2012 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
I've seen no mention of gearing.
I'd stick with the transmission from the donor. 2006 or 2007 WRX. I'm willing and ready to change the Final Drive as needed. Plus I'll have to add a LSD in there. Currently the "best" LSD i've been able to find is a 1.5way. Probably because I'm running the front in the back.

Assuming 255/40R17 wheels and a 7250 rpm limit.

WRX 2006
Gear Ratio -------- Top speed (mph)
1st: 3.454 --------- 42
2nd: 1.947 --------- 75
3rd: 1.366 --------- 107
4th: 0.972 --------- 150
5th: 0.738 --------- 198
Final: 3.700:1

WRX 2006 w/ 4.111 final drive
Gear Ratio -------- Top speed (mph)
1st: 3.454 --------- 38
2nd: 1.947 --------- 67
3rd: 1.366 --------- 96
4th: 0.972 --------- 135
5th: 0.738 --------- 178
Final: 4.111:1

WRX 2006 w/ 4.444 final drive
Gear Ratio -------- Top speed (mph)
1st: 3.454 --------- 35
2nd: 1.947 --------- 62
3rd: 1.366 --------- 89
4th: 0.972 --------- 125
5th: 0.738 --------- 165
Final: 4.444:1

Heavily leaning toward the 4.444, because of Micah's recommendation. Pick two gears? 2nd and 3rd.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:24 PM   #11
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I really do love our nasioc community as we do have some very insightful guys. I didn't even get a chance to dive into the importance of gearing last night. I also wasn't at my computer so couldn't pull up my gear ratio spreadsheet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
I've seen no mention of gearing.

How can you get into the real details of motor without talking gearing or gearbox?
I don't really think you're going to be able to make a "1 gear engine" I think you're going to have to use at least 2 gears.

I'd think it would be 2nd and 3rd.
Completely agreed! I want to avoid the 1st gear 'lock out' and put him into 2 and 3 as yes, he wants to run an 06 WRX box...however I'm pretty sure he set on using the box he already has. He seemed fine with going to 4.44 though.


Quote:
It's possible that 79mm stroke is better for you than a 75mm or less stroke just to keep yourself out of 1st, but I'd think the 75mm stroke would still have plenty of torque for such a light vehicle... especially given the 914 guy's experience with the 2.0L, where you'll have 10% more displacement and likely higher compression than a stock EJ207. You've also not mentioned CR... I'd assume you really only need ~15 lbs of boost, which should mean you can run at least 11:1 CR on E, probably even higher.
you're in the ballpark but I never got an answer on if this engine will live on a certain fuel or need to be able to handle pump. I already have konklr's 'suxass' XP car on higher CR but it only ever sees E85.

I also stated several times that I'd like to run 79mm stroke and do a lightly punched out EJ20 stroker. He can keep the over-rev RPM to stretch a gear but with more low end grunt. Issue now is that he has the D25 heads that he already wanted to use.

I'd start all over and sell all of the 06 WRX guts really. I'd source a JDM 4.44 5-spd. They are easy to get. The EARLY RA's actually had silly low gearing but kept 3.9 final drive. Take those gears with 4.44 and now we're cooking on a 2/3 trans. Then I'd go with 207 heads and run a stroked and lightly poked EJ20. Closed deck EJ20's aren't as hard to get as one might think. You just have to have happy customers in the right parts of the world

Quote:
what about completely removing all the weight of 1st, 4th and 5th?
He did say that he wanted to use this for some events other than just auto-x and do a few track days as well.

So working around the 'limitations', I think an EJ22 with his D25 heads are a good option, 4.44 gearing will get him low but now he still has a 1-2 set up. Having driven konklrs GC8 with a 6-spd setup, I never needed first gear but he was a 2.5 with that high compression. Regardless, all four 275 R-comps could be lit up low down in 2nd gear. I think a high CR EJ22 with the D25 heads shouldn't have an issue converting tires to smoke in a low speed corner...but that is still a question on a guesstimated engine and an untested chassis/suspension.

Rasmus, it was nice talking things over last night, though short. I think you have a few things to mull over for now. Think about it and feel free to call me if you want to talk.

-Micah
That guy at 3MI Racing
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:32 PM   #12
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What about a 6-speed option? I would think the tighter gearing would suit a 2/3 option more. You are going to get nowhere near 90mph, I wouldn't think, in an EM car like that. But, a fat powerband and a wide 2nd gear speed spread might work to short shift from 1st and just use 2nd.

I have watched Jeff Keisel(sp?) run his insane rotary bugeye and he uses that theory. Short 1st, 2nd rest of the time. Granted, because rotary, but is omething like the 818, couldn't hurt.

Good luck with this! Subscribed.

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Old 12-19-2012, 03:54 PM   #13
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The STi 6mt is a no go. It will not fit in the 818.

There is the 2010+ Legacy Trans - 6 speeds in the 5mt case!

Here's the gearing:
Gear Ratio -------- Top speed (mph) assuming 245/40R17 tires and 7250 rpm limit
1st: 3.454 --------- 35
2nd: 1.947 --------- 62
3rd: 1.296 --------- 93
4th: 0.972 --------- 123
5th: 0.825 --------- 145
6th: 0.695 --------- 173
Final: 4.444:1

I'm not considering this tranmission for my personal project. Ijust know it exists.
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:08 PM   #14
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Wasn't aware of this. I think I was thinking about the 6speed which I believe was in another project, the TR42 build on here. But, could also go with shorter tire for a lower effective gear. Though, without testing, would be hard to know exactly how any of this works in the real world until it hits the sea of cones!
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:27 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68Cadillac View Post
Good question. Made me think about my priorities with this engine. Knowing that my power goal is "only" 400 rear wheel horsepower but more important than the peak is the area under the curve of the powerband. Peaky power, brag on the internet power: bad. Wide, flat predictable power: good. Next goal would be reliability. Guess that means I'm gonna pay.

So will the extra 70cc's make a difference considering my power goals? No. Probably should just stick with the EJ22t and do a +1 overbore just to get the cylinders straight and be done.

Is it fairly straight forward to bolt D25 heads to an EJ22t shortblock and have a 2006-2007 ECU run it all?
Very straightforward. Just use the intake/harness/sensors/coolant lines from the 06. Everything just bolts up.

You'll also want the water pump and thermostat housing from the 06, and the oil cooler/heater if you decide you want to keep that.

The EJ22 block, if it is phase 1 (which a EJ22T is), will be missing a hole in the block for one of the starter bolts. Just tap the bell housing and get a shorter bolt of the right size, or maybe turn the starter bolt around and grind the head down so it fits.

Phase 1 blocks use 4 bell housing bolts, as opposed to the the latter ones that use 6.

That is all I can think of for now. If you can handle building a kit car, this won't give you any problems.
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:48 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68Cadillac View Post
Is it fairly straight forward to bolt D25 heads to an EJ22t shortblock and have a 2006-2007 ECU run it all?
I had explained this to you on the phone. Actually took about two seconds to search and found a few EJ22T blocks. Very simple and straight forward. You are basically just substituting the EJ22 block in lieu of the EJ25 with a few extra steps as point out above. The crankcase ventilation system is a bit different too but that just requires a little hose changes.

Digging up some early 5-spd ratios to put together a spreadsheet for you. Just some ideas of what you could have for ratios.
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
Rasmus, it was nice talking things over last night, though short. I think you have a few things to mull over for now. Think about it and feel free to call me if you want to talk.

-Micah
That guy at 3MI Racing
I've mulled it over. I'm building this thing to be a race car. So lets limit the fuel to high-octane fuels only. I'm mean E85 or better. It'll never see 91.

I'm really focused on the ej22t block and am willing to consider swapping everything inside it to achieve my power goals with reliability.

Most everything else will come from one of those two years of WRX.

Regarding the heads. Powerband will need to stretch. I don't know how far up the RPM band one can go without spending a small fortune. I am open to camshafts, springs, retainers, lightweight valves (if there is such a thing) to get the power where it needs to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3MI Racing
I had explained this to you on the phone.
You probably did. The ideas and answers were flowing out of your head so fast that I couldn't retain it all. After our first conversation I felt like I needed a transcript so I could read it slow.
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Old 12-20-2012, 04:21 PM   #18
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Well hopefully the second phone call was a bit more retainable
Get me that data if you can find it. It'll help me target the torque curve and ratios.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3MI Racing View Post
Get me that data if you can find it. It'll help me target the torque curve and ratios.
The data 3MI/Micah seeks is the speeds expected in a E Modified Solo run. Specifically, other than the start, what is the typical lowest speed seen? What's the average speed? What is the fastest speed? I'm still asking around and collecting the responses. This is all in a effort to properly gear the motor and tailor the RPM power range to get it done with just one gear.

Tire-wise I'm looking at diameters listed as 23 - 24 inches. Example of sizes: 23.0 x 12.0R13 or 23.5 x 13.0R15

Micah also suggested:


KillerB Oil Pan - lots of sloshing in Solo


Accusump - oil is life.


264° cams - Don't want to lose the low end.


Garrett GTX2867r or


maybe the GTX3076r turbo

He also asked if there was room in the 818 chassis to mount the turbo off to the side of right side valve cover. Shortening the header/uppipe pipes feeding the turbo and also moving the CG forward and down. I don't know if it'll work because I don't have the chassis with the motor actually in it to mock up. Great idea though.

Last edited by 68Cadillac; 12-21-2012 at 07:58 PM. Reason: engrish be reel hard, yo
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:36 PM   #20
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Speed Estimates for E Mod:

It's all dependent on how fast the driver is. The other factor is chassis set up. Our car is geared to top out in second at 80mph
-Jeff Kiesel via email

It depends I suppose, my car will go zero to 85 in 3rd gear. EM torque is so cool, and I'm too lazy for shifting. I would aim for gearing that works up to 80 and still gives you some pull out of a 25 to35mph turn.
-jdchristianson

I generally run my CM car in 2nd and sometimes 3rd. The low end of my 2nd is around 38mph(80% of max power). Since most EM cars make up for less than excellent suspension(CM) with lots of power, you will probably need to slow to around 30mph.
-Markwrx

Can't speak for EM either, but I can tell you that 30-80mph is a good working range to look for in FM. Given that EM is more power & weight, you're probably going to want a slightly larger window as you'll be going slower in the slow parts, yet faster in the fast parts.
-Scott Newton

At nationals? 75-80 in second gear. Low speed would be upper 30's most likely if you've got the grip/aero worked out. Median would be 40-60 with straights topping out in the mid 70's. National tours would be minus 5mph on those speeds unless it's the spring nats. Local events would be minus 10mph. I can tell you in SM I gear for 70mph as vmax in 2nd. If I could go higher without sacrificing reliability and my wallet, I would, but that's about as far as I can go with the stock ring gears/trans gears/tire sizes/rpm limits
SM has been known to top 70mph, and with as little weight as EM has with the same power that SM has along with real slicks I wouldn't be surprised at all.
-subydude

I think Tim's spot on with his 75-80 at the top of the class.
-mccanixx

The fastest solo sites may get a very fast mod car into the mid/low 90's. It's very site and course design dependent, for instance you'll never see even 80mph at Firebird.
-Spuds

x3 on the 30-80mph range. I have 82mph in 2nd and have never shifted to 3rd on real course or because I was out of speed. I have shifted a few times to try to pass sound (before i added larger mufflers) and was all over 3rd at the recent Gateway Road Course tour, but the speeds there were not normal and uniquely suited my cars strength.
-DaveW aka 47cp

+1 Launch in high gear which maxes out at 82mph
-Jim Murphy

Last edited by 68Cadillac; 01-18-2013 at 01:45 PM. Reason: added more
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:27 AM   #21
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Assuming a 23.5 inch diameter tire (e.i. 23.5 x 13.0R15) and 2006-7 wrx gearing:

WRX 2006, 3.700 final drive, 4k-9k powerband
Gear Ratio - speed @ 4k RPM | 9k RPM
1st: 3.454 ----------- 22 ------ 49
2nd: 1.947 ----------- 39 ------ 87
3rd: 1.366 ----------- 55 ------ 125
4th: 0.972 ----------- 78 ------ 175
5th: 0.738 ---------- 102 ------ 230

WRX 2006, 4.111 final drive, 4k-9k powerband
Gear Ratio - speed @ 4k RPM | 9k RPM
1st: 3.454 ----------- 20------ 44
2nd: 1.947 ----------- 35------ 79
3rd: 1.366 ----------- 50------ 112
4th: 0.972 ----------- 70------ 158
5th: 0.738 ----------- 92------ 207

WRX 2006, 4.444 final drive, 4k-9.5k powerband
Gear Ratio - speed @ 4k RPM | 9.5k RPM
1st: 3.454 ----------- 18------ 43
2nd: 1.947 ----------- 32------ 77
3rd: 1.366 ----------- 46------ 109
4th: 0.972 ----------- 65------ 154
5th: 0.738 ----------- 85------ 203

Last edited by 68Cadillac; 12-22-2012 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:51 AM   #22
apexanimal
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why the accusump with the kb pan/baffle/pickup?

i'll be doing a 818 as well... keeping an eye on your build - looks awesome
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:12 PM   #23
68Cadillac
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RA Gears, 4.444 final drive, 3.8k-8.8k powerband
Gear Ratio - speed @ 3.8k RPM | 8.8k RPM
1st: 3.454 ----------- 17 ------ 40
2nd: 2.333 ----------- 26 ------ 59
3rd: 1.750 ----------- 34 ------ 79
4th: 1.354 ----------- 44 ------ 102
5th: 0.972 ---------- 62------ 142

Fairly interesting option: RA's with 4.444 FD. It'd run in in 3rd instead of 2nd. Shifted powerband down by 200 rpm. You could have a really low second for those "pivot cones" local region course designers love to use.

PPG Straight Cut Dogs 4.111 Final, 3.8k-8.8k powerband
Gear Ratio - speed @ 3.8k RPM | 8.8k RPM
1st: 3.18 ----------- 20------ 47
2nd: 1.87 ----------- 35 ------ 80
3rd: 1.32 ----------- 49 ------ 113
4th: 0.95 ----------- 68 ------ 158
5th: 0.738 ---------- 88------ 203

Dolla Dolla PPG bills. Running in second but sounds like reverse. Powerband shifted down 200 rpm again.

Last edited by 68Cadillac; 12-22-2012 at 01:48 PM. Reason: engrish be reel hard, yo
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:40 AM   #24
sburck
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That car is going to simply be wayyyy toooo fast.



I'm no expert but my take:

You don't need a built motor for 400 WHP on E85 on a RWD car especially if it is not your daily driver. You can push a lot of boost into a stock ej25(7) as long as you can avoid knocking, and if your really nervous just grab one of the 2.0L JDM motors with forged internals. A good tune and e85 on either of these blocks should be plenty reliable for 400whp on a RWD car as it is a bit less crank HP than an awd car and that e85 can be seen as a safety factor.

In the end if your block blows it will be cheaper to just throw a new (or used stock block) in the car than it will be to do a real nice motor build.
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:55 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sburck View Post
That car is going to simply be wayyyy toooo fast.

I'm no expert but my take:

You don't need a built motor for 400 WHP on E85 on a RWD car especially if it is not your daily driver. You can push a lot of boost into a stock ej25(7) as long as you can avoid knocking, and if your really nervous just grab one of the 2.0L JDM motors with forged internals. A good tune and e85 on either of these blocks should be plenty reliable for 400whp on a RWD car as it is a bit less crank HP than an awd car and that e85 can be seen as a safety factor.

In the end if your block blows it will be cheaper to just throw a new (or used stock block) in the car than it will be to do a real nice motor build.
He's limited to a 2285cc or so do to the class he wants to run in. So no 2.5l.

Hence the 2.2l.

Also, no such thing as too fast.
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