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Old 12-18-2012, 02:15 AM   #1
Racer Dubya
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Default Times... they are a changing

We've had threads started before... the Old Guard waxing poetic about the way things used to be on AKIC... "The Good Ol'Days". But these threads have faded off usually with a few good points made on both sides and the rest of the posts just agreeing with one or the other.

Over the last year I have sat back, watched and realized that there has been a major swing that has encouraged a new/younger group to come in and the older group to dig in their heals, quiet down or drop off completely.

So what has changed???

1. The people joining are younger than they've ever been. The cars are cheaper to buy and cheaper to build with the market being flooded with used parts.

2. We have gone from a forum of asking questions and the folks who worked on their cars providing answers based on first hand knowledge to a group who may or may not know what they are talking about but can provide you 50 links to someone elses builds.

3. We have gone from the occassional disagreement to members taking a thread off topic or turning so toxic the mods have to shut down posts or redirect to proper locations.

4. We have gone from Autocrossers going out to the test n tunes to watch and cheer for the drag racers and visa versa to arguing between fast cars vs. fast drivers.

5. People seem to use the boards to FLAME way more now. There's a place to have open dialogue about multiple topics but if you can't be respectful of a persons feelings, beliefs or subjects then don't create the thread or don't post. TAKE THE HIGER GROUND.

Bottom line... people change, generations change, cars change but AKIC needs to be a community.

This isn't old against new... lately I have seen meets picking back up... and it is the new guys directing it, we are seeing more people coming out over the last several years to autocross but we need to keep the momentum.

Youngsters... the old guys know a thing or two about these cars, it's like nails on a chalk board listening to you folks talk about mods that we know first hand won't work. I'll be the first person to tell you "I dunno" if I don't know something (just ask Caleb).

Old guys... sometimes we need to keep our mouths shut, we need to let the new guys ask for help versus giving them unsolicited "wisdom".

I have heard from some longtime members how much I have changed (it was not intended as a compliment) But they'r right... we all do. It's been 7 years, I bought a house, sold my Legacy and have a kid who's bigger than me now. My priorities are different... but I still want to be part of a community that enjoys hanging out together to talk about these cars... if you guys want to talk about philosophy, that's fine too... I'll be taking a nap.
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Last edited by Racer Dubya; 12-18-2012 at 02:34 AM.
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:33 AM   #2
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Good points. I would say more but im TAKING THE HIGHER GROUND. lol
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:44 AM   #3
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*clap......clap...clap..clap.clap.clapclap- applause!*

You know, as a "younger" guy, and definately new to the subie world, I always feel as if I just missed the good old days. It happens all the time. I joined the air force just after "the good old days". I joined suabaru just after the golden era. I joined AKIC just after the good times. Then one day I realize there aren't any good old days. Nostalgia creates a very personal experience that our fond memories exploit to create a montage of awesome. Its just like when you reminisce on a old flame, you get that montage, but then edit in the reasons you broke up and the good old days become days that weren't that bad.

I haven't had a sour experience on AKiC yet. I see some stints of old rivalries and typical internet haters, but not once have I felt general disdain. I think what The old Guard lost is exclusivity. I'm constantly being called a hipster, I like secret bands, and I prefer the sleeper hit over transformers 36 3-D. Being this type of personality makes me veer away from pop norms. There was a time where wrx's and STi's were niche, hip, and more rare. Now everybody is very aware of then, and with that comes the unwelcome "me too" crowd. With that comes a cheapening of a cherished exclusive club. A secret spot isn't so awesome once everyone knows about it is it?

Also with a new and very aware crowd comes less personal experience and bonding. Its just like attending a small church of 30 to a Mega church that broadcasts on TV. Your gunna know everyone at the small church, and they are family. At the big church there are nods and smiles, but no one talks to each other and everyone minds their business.

Forgive me if I'm way off, but that's my rebuttle rant to yet another "You just missed it, kid." I want that community that you guys had, but will never have the time or money to commit to experience it like you did. Also, your secret beach spot now has a resort built on top of it for the rich kids to spend spring break. Its sad, but you can still enjoy the waves.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:21 AM   #4
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AKIC gave me the only friends I have in this city, and I'm very thankful for that.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:27 AM   #5
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Though not an ole g AKIC-er I am very, very old. I try to not offer unsolicited advise. I drive a slow car and try to speak softly. Some on this forum would be amazed how many more people in a room strain to listen to a whisper, rather than listen to a shout. With experience, there can come wisdom. Where wisdom exists, there is constraint-the wise tend to keep their own council and watch and listen. Age is no assurance nor proof of wisdom but the keen among the young will seek out the input of those with experience. It's a balancing act, if you will. Having said that, there is a reason I insist on a face-to-face meeting before I agree to do a paintjob or retrofit-this is an imperfect media for true communication yet how many times does a simple, trivial misunderstanding lead to mods having to close threads and assign points? I submit that one of the things that is missing are fewer face to face meets that bridge the age gap. Too many of us who'd otherwise get along in the real world start insipid feuds over a silly misunderstanding originating on a thread, of all things. Anyone who knows me can attest to the fact that I rarely offer unsolicited advise, but I suggest more face-to-face meets and a lot less off-topic B.S. here. It's possible to have fun and be responsible, no matter what your age is. Try it. You might even like it.

Last edited by aleutdude; 12-18-2012 at 03:47 AM.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:52 AM   #6
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Very nice to see a mod posting up.

It has been tough to know where AKIC leadership wants us to go when threads simply get shut down with no explanation as they have lately. This certainly helps. I'm still hoping for a face to face Ralph.

I'm trying my best to pass on some of the good stuff to the younger generation. I'm also doing my level best to limit my bully pulpit side, There is a time and a place for it. I'm not PC. That gets feelings hurt more often than not. My own experience has been hard won. To an extent, I see some here that take all this stuff for granted. That it is just there for the taking, that they are entitled to it. A part of me has some trouble with that.

I have children who are older than some here. These new youngsters have cars modded well beyond the formidable stage, yet they have little driving foundation. How about tempering that mod happiness with a bit of work on your car handling skills and using some maturity representing these cars? Definitely a generation gap going on.

I really like the points Harris makes. Nail on the head with the whole "me too" bit. It did use to be exclusive. The experience has been cheapened by the influx of greater numbers. I recall when I was the ONLY WRX south of Anchorage on the Kenai Pennisula. I recall driving all the way up from Homer just to attend meets here in town with about 20 familiar faces. I only see about 5 of those guys who still have those original cars. I can recall not seeing a turbo Subaru on every corner, everyday of the week, but for years now that hasn't been the case. If I waved at every person who flips the deuce, I'd rarely have both hands on the wheel. Time marches on. The only true constant is change. Better get used to it.

Sonny too, makes good points. Experience and Wisdom are better served when doled out in measured doses. There is no one single, solitary handbook in this life. When you are approached to share your own supply, it can often be difficult to know where to halt. Something I'm learning as I go, I suppose.


Everyone isn't going to get along all the time. The differences between us leave room for growth. My wife and I went to a party saturday night with a large crowd of youngsters. We were the only people there over 25. We had a blast and they enjoyed our company as well. It was an enlightening experience.

For the most part, I still enjoy the community and the events. There are gems amongst the new generation. Yawn, I'm an old fart and I am now officially ramblin'. Sorry for the all the many transgressions. There is yin and yang in everyone. I'll do better focusing on the good thing we have.

I do appreciate this forum.

Last edited by Nomadgene; 12-18-2012 at 10:51 AM. Reason: a few adjustments
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:57 AM   #7
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USAF Harris, I agree with what you said there.

I was never one to want to be in the exclusive clubs. So I just sit back and watch for the most part. I've owned a 2.5rs, an STi, a WRX now my Legacy and a handful of other beaters and projects mixed in there. I don't know everything, nor do I claim that I do.

The way I see AKIC is like _davin said, as a bunch of friends. I like to talk to other people with similar interests to learn what they have done, and learn from their experiences. I may add some of my knowledge to the topic if I have something to share. But they are free to learn on their own.

Just like with every group you are going to get the loud-mouths, the braggers, the know it all's, and the haters. These people like to hear themselves talk. Simple as that. If you know basic human nature and have basic communication skills, you just deal with the outbursts and move on.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:29 AM   #8
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Good thread. Good words. Good people.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:46 PM   #9
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I'm new to the forum also and agree with those above. I enjoy good people, good friends, and good cars... And can't forget the good beer!!! I may be considered a youngster at the prime age of 28, I don't know... But one thing I have known in my mechanics on heavy equipment is that I taught my 56 year old boss a few things, but he taught me a whole lot of things. It goes both ways and we as a younger generation may have forgotten some of that and have attained the "I know it all" attitude. I will always be the first to ask for advice and questions from the old guys as I know they have extremely valuable knowledge. Good post and I look forward to getting to know all you guys better! Both the young and old.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:15 PM   #10
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actually people forgot how to have fun an example people will re-learn this winter with ice racing.

now my own personal opinion is people expect to much with little input of their own the whole arrive and drive concept is fine i guess but you look back to 70's 80's 90's before this internet knowledge and couch bitchin family's went out as groups to events and supported each other the wifes and girlfriends would help kids would help it was a big deal to get ready for that event or people would drive hundreds if not 1,000 miles to hit 2 events in one weekend the level of actual dedication is down there's only 6-7 people from all the clubs i know put in 99% of the work just to have others have fun. honestly the hundreds of hours i put into events every year just to get a thank you is not enuff any more i want people to start stepping up so i can work on other things to make Motorsports better in Alaska. i don't know what the answer is i don't know how to make/beg/bribe people go to meetings to support what they like to do which is to race? i don't know any more. people need to support their clubs/ event what ever they are or the **** will just die off after going through the political side of the **** house now they could care less Motorsports are looked at as a disease almost and people don't realize it of course could i go on on on about this damn thing right, i could but every person that likes Motorsports is accountable for doing something.

i look at the vintage snow machine guys they are more organized and make every showing a big deal and they are out there with old bucket sleds but ya wouldn't know it for the pride they take in their sport. those guys know how to have fun and ya know what they get all the help in the world cause sponsors and other people see it too.

and honestly this mentally translates and get magnified into the forums where accountability is even less

go have fun ya ****s..lol

/rant
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggie 907 View Post
actually people forgot how to have fun an example people will re-learn this winter with ice racing.

now my own personal opinion is people expect to much with little input of their own the whole arrive and drive concept is fine i guess but you look back to 70's 80's 90's before this internet knowledge and couch bitchin family's went out as groups to events and supported each other the wifes and girlfriends would help kids would help it was a big deal to get ready for that event or people would drive hundreds if not 1,000 miles to hit 2 events in one weekend the level of actual dedication is down there's only 6-7 people from all the clubs i know put in 99% of the work just to have others have fun. honestly the hundreds of hours i put into events every year just to get a thank you is not enuff any more i want people to start stepping up so i can work on other things to make Motorsports better in Alaska. i don't know what the answer is i don't know how to make/beg/bribe people go to meetings to support what they like to do which is to race? i don't know any more. people need to support their clubs/ event what ever they are or the **** will just die off after going through the political side of the **** house now they could care less Motorsports are looked at as a disease almost and people don't realize it of course could i go on on on about this damn thing right, i could but every person that likes Motorsports is accountable for doing something.

i look at the vintage snow machine guys they are more organized and make every showing a big deal and they are out there with old bucket sleds but ya wouldn't know it for the pride they take in their sport. those guys know how to have fun and ya know what they get all the help in the world cause sponsors and other people see it too.

and honestly this mentally translates and get magnified into the forums where accountability is even less

go have fun ya ****s..lol

/rant
Amen!!! What can I do to help out? I know I don't got a subie at the moment, but I will and I want to help the club now even without one. Just let me know what I can do.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:46 PM   #12
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Good points by all here...

I have been moderating AKIC for over 8 years now and the forum comes in phases.

The "annoying" guys become the old hands and complain about the new blood that comes in just behind them, when all they are doing is just acting the same way that they did when they discovered AKIC.

This is a car forum in a small community, in a perfect world you would all be respectfull of each other, be open to new members and look at growing the community and Ralph and I would not have to do any moderation.

One rule that I have in my Kitchens is as simple as this "In the kitchen at least 90% of what we talk about should be in regards to culinary and food" Concept being (especially in Denali) that you are trying to provide a better work environment where people learn verses talking about how ****ed up they got the night before.

90% of this board should be about Subarus, the rest needs to stay in Off Topic and we have provided a thread for that.

If you have anything that relates to politics.... Nasioc has an area for that also... nothing destroys a conversation/thread quicker than politics, religion or talking about EVO's.

We have enough of those in our real lives lets try to keep that out of AKIC and focus on "FUN Stuff"
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:38 PM   #13
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Interesting read here. Nice to see this being put up on the table.

AKIC and Nasioc in general has been a tremendous resource for myself and my shop over the years. I also have seen things go up and go down here so to speak.

In the last few months I can say it seems to be on a good uphill streak for the most part. I think that all forums will have their trolls and troublemakers, all forums will have their clicks and cheerleaders, and off course you can't expect a good response on a Subaru forum talking about EVOs unless your bashing them!

I think what gets lost sometimes is peoples willingness to share good positive information for fear of negative response. If a forum gets run down with negative posts and generally negative people then it severely disrupts the balance. When people protect their own personal interest by slandering, discrediting, or spreading misinformation this hurts everyone. Ultimately the ones that attempt such things end up only discrediting themselves.

We all know that everyone has their opinions its how we choose to express them that makes the difference.

When members here feel free to post their ideas, opinions, questions, etc freely without others jumping on them for being right, wrong, or whatever then we have a good forum. We have a good community.

Most of us here I feel from who I have seen over the years posting and met are generally good in nature. I think sometimes its hard to hold back the key board warrior or one too many beers leads to some bad posts, it happens.

It is very easy to misunderstand one another via this media. It can be hard to tell sarcasm from seriousness for instance. It can be hard to tell fact from fiction. It can be hard to tell friend from troll.

I like what Kiwi had said about keeping 90% of the chatter to on topic. I very much agree with this.

In the end only a few points here:

1. The world doesn't revolve around this forum, but more of it will if we make it a friendly place. A VERY large amount of Subaru owners both performance and non-performance have no idea this forum exists. Spread the word and make new people welcome.

2. It seems like its easier for people to post negative, so take the harder route and try to be open and objective with your posts.

3. If you just really feel the need to call someone out try doing it directly to them via private message, in person, email, phone, text, etc. Calling people out in a public forum only provides evidence you have an agenda or an ego problem..lol

4. Try harder to stay on-topic!!! I don't even think we should have an off-topic thread but if it helps some of us then that is ok.

5. Nothing wrong with supporting your shop, tuner, person, etc just do it in a positive way. You will gain far more credibility, and keep dialog open. By the way on personal note, behind the scenes all of the performance shops around here are on fine speaking terms and we actually help each other out from time to time.

Great people here! I'm looking forward to a great new year here!
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _davin View Post
AKIC gave me the only friends I have in this city, and I'm very thankful for that.
I can relate completely with this, and am thankful for those beginning AKIC/AKDSM/AKMS years for creating some wonderful friendships that are still going strong today, and helping to form some great memories that forge that nostalgic yesteryear image.

I think USAF Harris is pretty spot on. AKIC has grown, and with it has endured some growing pains. In those found-of “good ole days”, we were more like that 30 person church, where everyone knew everyone, knew of each others family, was personable and everyone was more than willing to help out on any occasion. We met regularly it seemed, at least monthly, rain sleet sun or snow. The few new WRXs, the RSs, a Legacy, and a few non-Subie owners. All gathered and BSd, then drove or went to some place to eat. Just people into cars hanging out. No drama, no haters, …
Having grown like a large family, we now have much more than those original members, and like your big church analogy, or even a large family reunion, we nod at each other, smile, maybe say “hey”, but never really make it a point to know each other outside our little click.

I think what Sonny and Ralph elude to has a lot of merit. What seems to be missing, but is coming back is the meets. AKIC used to meet monthly at least back in the day, AKMS met nearly every week. Regardless timing, it allowed people to gather if they wanted, put a face and real name to the screen name, have conversations face to face regarding cars, girls, sleds, homes, the races, someone’s upcoming bday bash or just how whacked the drunk looked that just walked past the group. Whatever the convo, it was in person so you could better discern the context of the comment and their manner. You might even learn something new from people when in a group setting and find how small Alaska really is. Plus… look at Rusty, anyone that met him realized he wasn’t really that big an ass.

I see some meets starting back up, and maybe will try to make a few. I know I had opened my house up to ALL this past summer for an end of summer/deck BBQ (which wound up being one helluva windy night). Some good ole faces showed up like Jake, Mike, Shag and Tiger, but also some new faces showed like Kaitlyn, Seth and Kyle. I think everyone had fun and got along quite well despite “old vs young” or “new vs old”. BTW, shameless plug, I think we are planning to have a big new years bash.

I think this human interaction, the face to face portion that is missing, whether at meets, sporting events or parties is affecting peoples respect for one another. When we are all usernames, it is easy to get emotional and rant and rave, yet if we actually know that person, we may not be as harsh on them, and actually show them some respect. Which, in reality we should show respect REGARDLESS.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:19 PM   #15
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I've certainly changed since I first joined. I stumbled across this board before I knew how to do my own oil change to give you some perspective. When Paul Carter urged me to actually sign up and stop lurking, I bit the bullet and signed up. Since then, I've met a lot of cool people who I am I friends with outside of the "car scene".

It's been fun - I've learned A LOT - enough so that I try to give back to the people in this community when I get the chance... I like the idea of "paying it forward" as Kiwi likes to say. I know some people on this board don't see eye to eye with me - but that hasn't discouraged me.. I will continue to be an active member and hopefully I will get the opportunity to give back more to the future AKIC much like certain members on here have helped me out.

So thanks Paul (retrac) - I would have never signed up without you! :-P
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:09 PM   #16
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:21 PM   #17
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I'm a 'newbie' I suppose, but I mostly lurk. I like to just read, and maybe it's being from Fairbanks, when stuff gets de-railed, or 'personal', I just don't read it an move on.

Seams as if the last year or more there's been alot of drama that just passes over my head... But I have also read alot of 'HELP ME!!' type threads, and the OP gets a good responce with help.

I've got alot of good info buy 'lurking' or just reading what people have to say.


As an 'outsider' (Fairbanks) to the majority of the people in this section of the forum, I envy you guys down there having the community you do.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:37 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseL View Post
I'm a 'newbie' I suppose, but I mostly lurk. I like to just read, and maybe it's being from Fairbanks, when stuff gets de-railed, or 'personal', I just don't read it an move on.

Seams as if the last year or more there's been alot of drama that just passes over my head... But I have also read alot of 'HELP ME!!' type threads, and the OP gets a good responce with help.

I've got alot of good info buy 'lurking' or just reading what people have to say.

As an 'outsider' (Fairbanks) to the majority of the people in this section of the forum, I envy you guys down there having the community you do.
Pull a Davin and come join in on the fun! :-D
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:06 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Fella View Post
nothing destroys a conversation/thread quicker than talking about EVO's.

We have enough of those in our real lives lets try to keep that out of AKIC and focus on "FUN Stuff"
Well I'm screwed
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:39 AM   #20
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Well I'm screwed
Lol!!!
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:47 AM   #21
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Talking

ok, everyone join me in a good old, fire side, rendition of Kumbaya, My lord.



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Old 12-19-2012, 03:00 AM   #22
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:01 AM   #23
Tractorak
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Member#: 142424
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Anchorage
Vehicle:
02 WRX Wgn Silver
07 Jeep Commander, 13 SHO

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I have been lurking for a while since I have swapped car manufacturers however I still kept my WRX. I have been to a Bartlett meet with my new car and it was flipping cold so I didn't get to talk to a lot of people but it was a good turn out. I would like to see what the car does in rally cross this summer so looking forward to seeing familiar faces there. I have spoken out about the "toxic" overtones of this forum and stuff likes this is great to see. I was never deeply intrenched in AKIC however I have been to a few events through the years and I have had good advice and met good people. It's hard for me though as I don't have my WRX in town to show up for cruises and to participate in meets other than the occasional Taco Bell hang outs. So I will see you when I see you.
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Old 12-24-2012, 05:46 AM   #24
KapaFool
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Member#: 2679
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Anchorage ALASKA
Vehicle:
2010 WRX4FD
White

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Its nice to see the forum still going strong. Ahm not on here as much as the early days but lurk in the background still reading posts. Stay classy AKIC.
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Old 12-24-2012, 06:18 AM   #25
Wes_FSTGDB
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Member#: 59400
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Anchorage, AK
Vehicle:
2013 335XI MSport
2008 BMW 335XI Space Grey

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KapaFool View Post
Its nice to see the forum still going strong. Ahm not on here as much as the early days but lurk in the background still reading posts. Stay classy AKIC.
Well I be damn, KapaFool, will never forget you man. And I'll never forget the "good old days." Will have to read more of this later, but I think it is good that it is brought up and kick around thoughts and ideas.
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