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Old 12-26-2012, 09:12 PM   #26
dave07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Back Road Runner View Post
I think people have different perceptions of the rear end kicking out. For some, anything, anything at all is the rear end kicking out. For others, the car has to be quite sideways to really care at all about what the rear end is doing.
You hit the nail on the head. For me, if the tail end does anything I'm not used to then I say it's "kicking out".

I guess after reading these boards it makes you think Subaru's are unstoppable tanks in the snow. But I've come to find out my perceptions don't match reality, haha.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:17 PM   #27
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been driving on snow for several yrs during winter... 1st time i've actually enjoyed doing it today now with a subie+snow tires. cant believe what a HUGE difference it is from a fwd car+all season. i admit i had 'a bit of fun' with the subie (just to test it out) but needless to say a driving tip that comes to mind is 'always keep your distance'.

awd+snow tires can stir overconfidence. resist the temptation and just err on the side of safety.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:18 PM   #28
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On a serious note. Don't brake when you lose traction. Let off the gas and brake and try to regain control
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:37 PM   #29
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This is where the STi tranny/diffs/DCCD really comes into play.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:06 PM   #30
jim_newton
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In traffic I think the most important thing is to always keep way extra distance. Even up a slight hill. Today I was well behind this RWD cadillac .. he was going 2 mph the entire time and I was getting annoyed. Then his wheels start hopelessly spinning and then he slides backwards down the hill before twisting to a rest in the other lane on the curb. When he settled I went around him pretty quickly (but safely) and gave a friendly honk with a nice grin. AWD + snow tires next time bud

I had some fun today ... a solid 6". I live up one of the steepest hills in the world (yes the world). I made it up no problem, now I just have to hope that the trucks get here so I can go down it on my way to work...
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:09 PM   #31
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I'm running 235 Studded General Altimax Arctics, so pretty wide, but I wanted wider summer wheels/tires so I decided to make the OEMs my winters.

The TC does work quite well; keeps things from getting too out of control, but isn't overly invasive, unless you're being obnoxious with your maneuvers.

With the TC off, the rotation of the car feels very loose, but the trajectory is very stable. You can easily throw it right into a 30 degree drift and it just holds beautifully, it will drift all day long. The open differentials don't appear to be causing much grief either, plenty of forward traction, and it feels balanced. You floor it and it just straightens right out.

Would love to try out an STI and see how it differs, with all the wizardry of the DCCD and LSDs.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:13 PM   #32
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dont go drifting. i ****ed up too rims. good thing i was in a s10 not my wrx
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:17 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by funnky View Post
dont go drifting. i ****ed up too rims. good thing i was in a s10 not my wrx
A RWD pickup is not an AWD hatch. And if you're smart about it, you can figure out how not to hit a curb.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:17 PM   #34
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Yeah I've been hating on the TC pretty good since I got this car, but it was very nice to me while on all day today (no crazy drifting yet). I am fan of it in the snow big time .. dry pavement maybe not so much. Would also love to try the STI in the snow .. eeerrg if only it didn't have that wing....
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:31 PM   #35
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What DCCD settings do you guys drive in for snow?
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:38 PM   #36
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The biggest "trick" for driving in snow is not to over-drive for the traction conditions. Leave double your normal following distance. Brake earlier and easier than you would on dry roads. Accelerate half as hard as you normally would. And take corners half as fast as you would on a dry road.

Weight transfer can be your friend. If the front end is plowing wide of your intended turning line, lift off the gas and more weight will transfer forward, giving you more grip there. You can also left-foot brake (LFB that someone referred to earlier) to transfer weight forward and get more grip for turning. Sometimes you may want to deliberately overpower the traction in the rear and make the car drift to get around a corner also. Just be careful, because it's REALLY easy to overdo that one and end up spinning completely around, or going off the road.

You can practice the weight transfer stuff in an empty parking lot. Find a nice open area and start driving in a circle at 15 or 20 mph with the wheel held in one position. Once you find the speed point where you can maintain a nice steady circle, start playing with the gas. If you lift off the gas, your circle should tighten up as the front wheels get more grip. When you add gas, it should get wider as the front end loses some grip. It's a good way to learn how small throttle adjustments can make a big handling difference when you're at the traction limit.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:50 PM   #37
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We have about 4-5 unplowed inches on the roads here in upstate NY and I find I have to make the rear end walk out on me with snow tires but the slush is def the main problem
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:54 PM   #38
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Subaru + Snow = Fun
It's pretty damn easy to drive like normal and watch all the FWD drivers on the road have a hell of a time.

Braking is all you really need to be careful with just like any car. In a spin out situation, quickest way to help get out of it is to put in the clutch to eliminate power to the wheels.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:56 PM   #39
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Mash the gas and cross your fingers.. Or maybe something the other guys said ^^
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:59 PM   #40
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My legacy outback does absolutely awesome in the snow with the general arctimax arctics. The only thing it has occasion issues with is ice but that's cause I'm not running studs so any in studded tire isn't going to do well on ice
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:09 AM   #41
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Be careful of snow drifts, I've had the mis-fortune of being sucked off the road by one, and my own inexperience in my fathers car when I was first learning, even if you drive slow the wind can push you, that coupled with the whiteout conditions and snow on the road can make it disorienting, to me atleast.

I have since started using my GPS if its really bad out and visibility is crap so I have some sense of where turns are.

I have also had another bout of inexpierence during that same winter about two years ago, came over a crest with a slight right hand turn felt the ass end go completely sideways panicked again and tapped the brakes ended doing a complete 360, and again got lucky and didn't hit anything. Slight and smooth gas to correct a fish tail, not brakes.

As many others have said pay much greater attention than normal, if you're like me and have to traverse back roads you'll find out very quickly how the conditions change from one stretch to the next.

The best piece of advice I can give you, especially if you're out in the country on back roads, or are traveling on road like that. Don't assume just because your road is clear that the rest of the "main" roads are clear, both of my incidents were caused partially due to that thought, I live on a somewhat major road, and the roads I was traveling on were main roads/ state routes. Both of them got about halfway between home and my destination and it turned into a completely different world.

If the weather is bad and you don't have to go anywhere, then don't. That being said go to a big open parking lot near you and practice braking correcting if the car slides and learning how the car behaves, that way if you are out you have a sense of how the car will react on you.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:13 AM   #42
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Slush is very bad no matter what tires your running. Get in that stuff at speed and it can be bad
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:31 AM   #43
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Countersteer with throttle modulation if you're getting sucked into a pile of slush. I had that happen on my way to work and my steering wheel was turned 90 degrees to the left so I could get out of the slush. I felt like a rally car driver
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:40 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXSteye20008 View Post
I use all seasons in PA as snow tires would go to waste as we only see snow here and ther and do fine. Throttle if you feel the car kick out as discussed, it sounds odd to push the gas when feel you are losing control, but it works. Most of us here, do it for fun when given the opportunity. We got about 2 inches today and I still have on my high performance tires (need to switch to winters asap) and came out of the gym and saw snow on the roads and thought ****. Drove home and slid a lot, but LFB and trottle and home safe. I also pulled my ABS fuse ages ago as well.
And you live in Lancaster? lol I'm in Pittsburgh and have run winter tires for the past 3 years... I'll never go back. Winter tires help, even on cold dry roads.

Even with an inch on the roads, summer tires are completely unsafe. I've driven all seasons in 2-3 inches and although it's do-able and you won't really get stuck with our AWD, it's still much safer and easier to steer and stop with winter tires.
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:44 AM   #45
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WOT and keep your eyes and steering wheel pointed in the direction in which you would like to go. Adjust steering angle if necessary. Dont forget to breathe
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:49 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
try lower pressure in the tires...snow tires usually like 30-33psi range


No

Higher pressure gives you more bite into the snow. Less pressure would have you float on top of snow. This ain't beach sand....you want to bite down to pavement.


You're already on snows in an AWD car, so you do have an advantage in acceleration and a bit in turning.

Drive slower than you think is safe.

Look way ahead. Like you're at a track day. Waaaay ahead.

Brake in a straight line. You have more braking power than turning power in the snow (this is also true in the rain).

Drive as if there's a hole in your brake line that if you push the brake too hard, it'll pop and you'll lose all braking.

Anticipate. Is that idiot on the side street going to "race" to get into traffic in front of you, then sit at 5mph because he's running on bald victoracers on his Mustang GT. Watch for the idiot who hits the guard rail and then doesn't know the phrase "when you spin, both feet in" and tries to recover, shooting across the road.

Remember that there are plenty of idiots out there. Half of them won't exceed 15 mph on the highway and the other half think they can go 80. Either one can get you. Watch your mirrors for the idiot going 80. If you can move into a lane where he isn't, that's good for you. Do it.

Look into ice races. They are a great way to learn how to control a car under extremely low friction surfaces. I know the BMW club does them near me.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:21 PM   #47
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I never understood why people are so adamant about engine braking. You run a lower gear because snow needs more torque. You also run a lower gear because you have better control of wheel speed on throttle. However there is nothing magical braking.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:24 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack ffr1846 View Post
No

Higher pressure gives you more bite into the snow. Less pressure would have you float on top of snow. This ain't beach sand....you want to bite down to pavement.


You're already on snows in an AWD car, so you do have an advantage in acceleration and a bit in turning.

Drive slower than you think is safe.

Look way ahead. Like you're at a track day. Waaaay ahead.

Brake in a straight line. You have more braking power than turning power in the snow (this is also true in the rain).

Drive as if there's a hole in your brake line that if you push the brake too hard, it'll pop and you'll lose all braking.

Anticipate. Is that idiot on the side street going to "race" to get into traffic in front of you, then sit at 5mph because he's running on bald victoracers on his Mustang GT. Watch for the idiot who hits the guard rail and then doesn't know the phrase "when you spin, both feet in" and tries to recover, shooting across the road.

Remember that there are plenty of idiots out there. Half of them won't exceed 15 mph on the highway and the other half think they can go 80. Either one can get you. Watch your mirrors for the idiot going 80. If you can move into a lane where he isn't, that's good for you. Do it.

Look into ice races. They are a great way to learn how to control a car under extremely low friction surfaces. I know the BMW club does them near me.
this is correct
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:50 PM   #49
justice2002
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My wrx loves the snow, does not like braking tho...which means..bigger brankes soon
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:56 PM   #50
Z4M
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I learned from many years of driving RWD cars in the snow (with all-seasons).

edit- just wanted to add that i started with a 1972 plymouth satellite in northern michigan. haha!

Last edited by Z4M; 12-27-2012 at 02:05 PM.
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