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Old 12-26-2012, 10:30 PM   #1
scootarida1
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Default Power Wagon Build Thread

I figured I should put some pictures of the setup I am running.



[Original Post Detail]
So I recently did a compression test since my 05 FXT was consuming about a qt of oil every 500 miles or so.

Here are the results (completed within 30 min of shutdown)

3---134 psi 4---125 psi
1---129 psi 2---121 psi


Unfortunately I was not able to run a leak down test because I couldn't find a socket for the crank. But from the compression test, it looks like its time for a rebuild. Let me know what everyone one else thinks.

My plan so far for the motor is:

Manley 8.5:1 99.75 Pistons
Manley H Rods or Eagle H Rods (Not Sure Yet)
King Race Bearings
ARP Head Studs

I am also looking to convert to top feed injectors. Im looking at the Five-O Black Ops 1400cc injectors.

The car is a DD and am looking for about 425-450 WHP on 93. So I plan on running tighter clearances since the car will only see a spirited pull here and there.

I'm thinking around 0.0028" for the PW clearance and I'm not sure for the rod and main clearances yet.

Anything I'm missing?
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Last edited by scootarida1; 01-05-2013 at 08:14 PM. Reason: Add pictures
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:54 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scootarida1 View Post
So I recently did a compression test since my 05 FXT was consuming about a qt of oil every 500 miles or so.

Here are the results (completed within 30 min of shutdown)

3---134 psi 4---125 psi
1---129 psi 2---121 psi


Unfortunately I was not able to run a leak down test because I couldn't find a socket for the crank. But from the compression test, it looks like its time for a rebuild. Let me know what everyone one else thinks.

My plan so far for the motor is:

Manley 8.5:1 99.75 Pistons
Manley H Rods or Eagle H Rods (Not Sure Yet)
ACL Race Bearings
ARP Head Studs

I am also looking to convert to top feed injectors. Im looking at the Five-O Black Ops 1400cc injectors.

The car is a DD and am looking for about 425-450 WHP on 93. So I plan on running tighter clearances since the car will only see a spirited pull here and there.

I'm thinking around 0.0028" for the PW clearance and I'm not sure for the rod and main clearances yet.

Anything I'm missing?
For 93 on a dd with forged pistons and no constant beat, but with 400-425 awhp I would do:

PWC minimum .003 with a happy spot of .0035
mains at .0012-.0014
rods at .0002 more than the mains.

top rings at .014-.015
second at .017 - .018
OCR rails at min spec of .015

At least that would be my starting point.

Just do the manley rods - there's a thread on this very subject going right now.

If you were burning that much oil you WILL have to at least clean the valves, and you will have to check the seats as I'm betting you have a good bit of carbon buildup going on with those.

Last edited by Turn in Concepts; 12-27-2012 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:16 PM   #3
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Yeah I've been reading that thread on the manley's. I will get the heads checked out for sure. Thanks for the input on the specs. I will take them into consideration when I am assembling the block.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:25 PM   #4
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Is your current engine stock internals?
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:26 PM   #5
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yes current is stock
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:46 PM   #6
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Gotcha. I figured. My compression numbers are pretty close to yours, but my engine is built.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:49 PM   #7
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Yeah I felt that they were kind of low. Fairly consistent but Cyl 2 is to low for my liking.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:55 PM   #8
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Look into the Manley Turbo Tuffs. A bit on the heavier side but! Very strong.

I know for my build we are running .0038-.0041. From the research we've done that was a good happy median for a forged piston I am using.

I also plan to do a little more than just a few pulls here and there.

To add onto what TiC said. I was burning quite a bit of oil before my engine failed (seized ring). I had to get my heads at least refreshed and cleaned, but decided to just get them rebuilt for the extra bit of cash. I had ALOT of build up on the exhaust side, I mean ALOT.

Last edited by yetogetanrs2; 12-27-2012 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:22 AM   #9
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Default clearance

to turn in concepts do you really mean .003+ rod clearance or was that a typo or did i read it wrong
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:36 AM   #10
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I think they really meant to say .002 and that it was bigger than the mains. Not mains + .002. They don't need to be that loose.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:38 AM   #11
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TIC it's interesting that you say .0014-.0015 top ring gap. Would you be okay with that for road racing 400whp?
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:53 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by kakarot09 View Post
TIC it's interesting that you say .0014-.0015 top ring gap. Would you be okay with that for road racing 400whp?
Nope. I would go bigger for road racing.

Given what he's doing, and it's the occasional blast to top power, not all the time at WOT that's what I would go with.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldandslowjim View Post
to turn in concepts do you really mean .003+ rod clearance or was that a typo or did i read it wrong
Quote:
Originally Posted by kakarot09 View Post
I think they really meant to say .002 and that it was bigger than the mains. Not mains + .002. They don't need to be that loose.
typo. meant to say .0002 bigger than mains. so if mains are .0014 rods are .0016.

Fixing that now.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:57 PM   #14
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thanks for answer tic jim
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
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thanks for answer tic jim
No prob. Sorry about the typo.
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:27 PM   #16
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Quick question... Were those compression numbers cold or hot?
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:26 PM   #17
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Those numbers were hot.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:48 PM   #18
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Well just an update, this thread is becoming a build thread. I have ordered a bunch of parts and will have pictures in the next few days.
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:36 PM   #19
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Some goodies came in. I received my pistons and rods. I also received a bunch of measuring tools and a scale to balance out the components. Here is a teaser pictures along with many more as I measure and weigh the items.

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Old 01-05-2013, 08:05 PM   #20
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Measuring and Weighing the pistons using a micrometer good to 0.0001". Its been a while since I did some measuring with a micrometer so I took a bunch of measurements until they were consistent.






Piston 1:




Weight: 397.5 g (picture is lying, re-weighed with the piston skirt facing the same as the others)
Diameter: 3.9237 "



Piston 2:




Weight: 397.7 g
Diameter: 3.9237 "



Piston 3:




Weight: 397.6 g
Diameter: 3.9235 "



Piston 4:




Weight: 397.8 g
Diameter: 3.9237 "




So far the pistons seem fairly well balanced and the diameters are within the tolerances I would accept. I will see how the piston pins weigh out to see if I can balance the pistons closer and bring piston 1 closer to the others.

Last edited by scootarida1; 01-05-2013 at 08:06 PM. Reason: add detail/formatting
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:52 AM   #21
scootarida1
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Did some more weighing today:

Pin 1:



Weight: 131.9 g


Pin 2:



Weight: 132.0 g


Pin 3:



Weight: 131.7 g


Pin 4:



Weight: 131.8 g


All of the rings weighed 26.4g. However I think they will change slightly when I need to gap them so I am not taking them into account for picking the correct combination for balancing.






But it looks like my piston weight issue can be solved. The final combinations of pistons and pins are:

Piston 1---Pin 2
Piston 2---Pin 4
Piston 3---Pin 1
Piston 4---Pin 3

This brings all of the pistons+pins to a weight of 529.5 g.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:12 AM   #22
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So I am going to be balancing the rods in the next couple of days. I figure I'll balance the big ends and then do the small ends.

Where is everyone removing material on the big ends? The only area that seems feasible is around the sides by the bolts and just following the contour on a belt sander.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:28 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scootarida1 View Post
So I am going to be balancing the rods in the next couple of days. I figure I'll balance the big ends and then do the small ends.

Where is everyone removing material on the big ends? The only area that seems feasible is around the sides by the bolts and just following the contour on a belt sander.
I talked to one of the tech reps (at the manley booth) at subiefest and he said it was not a good idea to shave or grind any of there rods. It weakens/takes off the strength coating and causes a weak link. Im not a pro motor builder just thats what the guy said.

Im in your same boat rite now. Just did my leak down and found lots of air coming out of the dipstick and oil fill tube.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:47 AM   #24
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Not a pro, but.......


Balances small ends first, then big ends.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:01 AM   #25
scootarida1
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okay thanks.
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