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Old 12-25-2012, 11:21 PM   #101
WRXHillClimb
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I was talking about your "just lower the price a couple hundred grand" logic. Which is completely asinine. To the point where I begin to wonder who pays you so much.
His point was a bit more than that. He said lower price and RAISE production (as in sell more).

They could have probably followed a typical lifecycle, producing and selling the thing for 4 years, moving pretty similar numbers to a GTR (about 1k a year). I bet they would even truly make a profit at that.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:46 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by WRXHillClimb View Post
His point was a bit more than that. He said lower price and RAISE production (as in sell more).

They could have probably followed a typical lifecycle, producing and selling the thing for 4 years, moving pretty similar numbers to a GTR (about 1k a year). I bet they would even truly make a profit at that.
The point is absurd. The car is very expensive TO MAKE (not simple lost R&D and tooling money). You cannot simply say, "oh price it the same as cars that are much cheaper to make, and sell more of them".

Just drop the price a couple hundred thousand per car?


Oh ****, why didn't they think of that!


Compare Apples to Apples, or don't compare at all.

Last edited by REX8; 12-26-2012 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:53 PM   #103
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I just want to cry foul on the knock against the Pagani interior. I would argue that it may be a tad on the garish side, but the quality is beyond reproach and I would further the statement by saying the interior is one of the things that made Pagani what it is today. It certainly was not performance. All supercars are fast... blah blah 600 HP, blah blah 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. A dozen cars match that spec already. Any Joe Blo can drop a supercharged LSX into a light car and get those specs (cough cough Hennesy). Displacement plus FI = mad speed. Been that way since the 1950's. Bored of it.

A new supercar tries to break into the market and make waves every month it seems. Uber cars appear from Spain, Czech., Ukraine, etc. They all try to wow us, but the problem is that you cannot wow anybody with numbers alone. It is just too easy to get into the 500+ HP realm. A 20 year old with a Small Block Chevy can build one outside of his trailer in Louisiana (ask me how I know )

So what is a supercar producer suppose to do to make an impression on a market saturated with wannabe ferraris?

The equation that Pagani discovered in my mind was largely influenced by that interior. It is like nothing else. Radical, but of high quality. Comparing to a civic is not right. THis is what Civics try to emulate. But miserably fail. It is well known that the exterior of supercars are bonkers. It is a requirement of sorts. But Pagani took the very high road and made the interior bonkers as well, and it made them into a well respected super car.

What I am getting at, but taking my sweet time getting to the point is that the LFA has checked all the boxes. It is wicked to look at on the outside, it is VERY nice on the inside, it is immensely fast, it makes a noise like no other car out there. It has aspects that make it unique, and that alone makes it worthy of at least an exotic title, if not super car.
A tad on the garish side? Black or brown leather, a decent steering wheel and hide the speakers and it would be perfect.

Bright red with a Momo steering wheel and speakers that look like a 16 year olds stereo install? Pass.

But hey, that's what makes buying a super car fun. Want your Lamborghini with a whale penis leather interior dyed neon pink? No problem sir!
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:11 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Hondaslayer

A tad on the garish side? Black or brown leather, a decent steering wheel and hide the speakers and it would be perfect.

Bright red with a Momo steering wheel and speakers that look like a 16 year olds stereo install? Pass.

But hey, that's what makes buying a super car fun. Want your Lamborghini with a whale penis leather interior dyed neon pink? No problem sir!
Yep. Pretty sure that no 2 Zonda interiors are the same. They are all bespoke.

And anyone buying the LFA probably already owns at least a few Lambos, Fezza's and Porkers. Just another plaything.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:21 PM   #105
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Anyway, for an amazing interior I always point to Spyker as being the tops. High quality (yes, the Pagani is high quality, it just looks ugly, especially the steering wheel) and beautiful at the same time.

Current (ish) Spyker C8.

Look at the pictures of the interior switches. (note: probably not work safe)

http://www.netcarshow.com/spyker/2008-c8_aileron/

Older Spyker:

A bit garish, but hey it's from 2001. The steering wheel is cool, albeit kind of ugly. The stereo I will admit is way out of place.

http://www.ritzsite.nl/Spyker/09_spyker.htm


Take my opinion with a grain of salt, I think the Volvo 1800ES is the coolest car on the planet (actually any 2 door wagon for that matter)

Last edited by Hondaslayer; 12-26-2012 at 08:26 PM.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:19 AM   #106
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pssst..

come closer

I think the 1800ES is without a doubt one of the coolest cars ever as well..

but dont tell anybody.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:08 AM   #107
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Spyker interiors are outstanding.

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Your argument about pricing is actually... Stupid. Your disdain about the LFA's price could be applied to the SLR and a myriad of cars over 100k because they all don't turn better lap times than an old Viper. But Scrappy put it best - not everyone wants to be a neanderthal with a club.

Again, obsessed with lap times. Let me ask - how many track days per year did you attend per year with your Lamborghini and Viper? How many times have you run the Ring with your personal car? What SCCA class do you run your Lamborghini in?

If lap times are your primary concern, then I imagine that might be the disconnect - you are obviously a frequent trackrat that spends their time racing these cars in competition so every second around the track is important and very consequential. The rest of us aren't tracking Lambos and Vipers - we're coming from the perspective of owning a high-quality sports car and enjoying the feel, the sound, and the drive - not just a YouTube laptime.
I bring up lap times because Lexus named the car after a racetrack. The videos I posted are drag races; which by reading the trap speeds gives a good indication of how a specific car will accelerate at WOT. This is relevant to ownership as many performance car owners go WOT during ownership.

The LFA markets the crap out of its performance tech, such as: fast revving V10, carbon construction, digital dash, Yamaha exhaust, Nurburgring model, etc. But for some reason it performs at the same level of a GT car and on the track that it is named after, looses to a very basic V10 powered car.
The other, current, $400k car that comes to mind is the Aventador, which also has a carbon chassis, automated manual trans, and an ugly techy interior. But the Aventador shoots flames and RUNS away from the LFA. Where is the result of all the work Lexus’ put into high tech performance?

If I'm spending $400k+ on a "supercar", performance is going to be VERY high on my list of the car's accolades. So how a car performs in comparison to others is important to me. On the other hand, if I was in the market for a Phantom coupe, I wouldn’t care that a Bentley CGT Supersport is faster and cheaper. But there is the difference, the Phantom doesn’t claim to be a fast car, where the LFA does.

IMO the Lexus has made a lot of claims about how great the car is and aside from breaking glass with the exhaust, it hasn’t actually achieved anything great. It is, however, the most expensive Toyota available, aside from the 2000GT. Therefore, the LFA does not have one aspect that I find impressive.

Yes, I do take my cars to the track. I do not participate in the SCCA.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:29 AM   #108
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The other, current, $400k car that comes to mind is the Aventador, which also has a carbon chassis, automated manual trans, and an ugly techy interior. But the Aventador shoots flames and RUNS away from the LFA. Where is the result of all the work Lexus’ put into high tech performance?
Car Magazine UK: Lexus LFA vs Lamborghini Aventador

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In November 2011, Car Magazine conducted a comparison test between Lexus LFA and Lamborghini Aventador. The Aventador had a 139 HP advantage over the Lexus LFA. However, Lexus LFA weighs almost 230 KG less. The magazine had established the Lexus LFA engine as the better of the two going as far as saying that "[LFA] is powered by the best engine this side of Paul Rosche’s masterpiece in the back of a McLaren F1."Regarding the exterior look of the Lexus LFA, editor commented "To me LFA is a glorious looking car - beautifully proportioned and meticulously finished and with drama in every crease and curve". Once the editors had the cars on mountain roads, clearly Lexus LFA seemed make a very positive impression on the editors as they commented "The way the Aventador quickly reverses in my rearview mirror, my guess was not far off". "The LFA zings between hairpins and then peels cleanly into them, front end assured, but never artificially pointy and the rear noticeably wants to edge just a few degreess wide as the V10 feeds the rear tires with its buzzsaw power". In the end in terms of sheer driving enjoyment, the editors were clear that Lexus LFA was the more enjoyable car of the two.
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:13 AM   #109
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Car Magazine UK: Lexus LFA vs Lamborghini Aventador



But...but...Ring Time Yo'!

Driving enjoyment doesn't matter. Only laptimes and ETs matter.

Remember folks...no trophies for the guy that gets to Starbucks second every morning.
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:50 AM   #110
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But...but...Ring Time Yo'!

Driving enjoyment doesn't matter. Only laptimes and ETs matter.

Remember folks...no trophies for the guy that gets to Starbucks second every morning.
I'm starting to agree with James May about developing a car on the 'Ring ruins the car. I'm wondering what the next trend will be for cars though. Maybe something like the Isle of Man TT course?
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:55 AM   #111
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Not suprising to hear this...I'm really not sure who Lexus was trying to get with this car since most peole are luxury car owners not "super car" drivers? People in there 40-60's range.. I know they are trying to move down with "youth" movement and the to Fsport and IS300 and 250 but, reallly ..who in there right mind is going to go out and say..Lets go buy a LFA today?? Only the insanely rich!!! ($375,00 for base model) So suprise its being discontinued..not at all..

More of a car that should have stayed a "concept".

just my opinion..
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:43 AM   #112
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Not suprising to hear this...I'm really not sure who Lexus was trying to get with this car since most peole are luxury car owners not "super car" drivers? People in there 40-60's range.. I know they are trying to move down with "youth" movement and the to Fsport and IS300 and 250 but, reallly ..who in there right mind is going to go out and say..Lets go buy a LFA today?? Only the insanely rich!!! ($375,00 for base model) So suprise its being discontinued..not at all..

More of a car that should have stayed a "concept".

just my opinion..
Except where you apparently missed every post of this thread that discussed that only 500 were planned from the beginning and they all sold.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:53 AM   #113
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I'm starting to agree with James May about developing a car on the 'Ring ruins the car. I'm wondering what the next trend will be for cars though. Maybe something like the Isle of Man TT course?
Isle of man TT course...where ancient architecture and human bones meet once a year

personally I think the isle of man TT is one of the most insane things you can do in a motor vehicle aside from driving a dozen nitro glycerine filled ford pintos around a figure 8 dirt track in the rain at night.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:55 AM   #114
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Are we seriously still talking about this?!
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:08 AM   #115
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Are we seriously still talking about this?!
Get outta here, jerkwad!

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Old 12-28-2012, 11:09 AM   #116
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Get outta here, jerkwad!

Awesome car that is a technical marvel. Sold all 500. Some people here don't like it based on performance figures. CLOSE THIS THREAD NAO!
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:53 AM   #117
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Awesome car that is a technical marvel. Sold all 500. Some people here don't like it based on performance figures. CLOSE THIS THREAD NAO!
Speaking of weak performance...how's that BRZ doing?

What a joke of a car(!).
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:02 PM   #118
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Speaking of weak performance...how's that BRZ doing?

What a joke of a car(!).
Reminds me of a similar joke:

How's that M3 doing?
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:10 PM   #119
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Speaking of weak performance...how's that BRZ doing?

What a joke of a car(!).
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:34 AM   #120
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personally I think the isle of man TT is one of the most insane things you can do in a motor vehicle aside from driving a dozen nitro glycerine filled ford pintos around a figure 8 dirt track in the rain at night.
I mean this in the most heterosexual way possible:

I love you.
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