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Old 12-28-2012, 09:18 PM   #1
JetFalcon
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Default What Subaru can beat an M3?

So is it possible for any kind of Subaru out there to outperform a BMW M3? Mainly in terms of acceleration and handling turns. I'm not planning to street race because I'm for sure am gonna get a ticket and rather be spending money on stuff I want.

But my dad recently bought a Lime Rock Edition BMW M3 which is really cool. But I still liked Subaru because it has a youthful look and fits someone better like me in their 20s, plus it's cheaper. I was told it was the poor man's race car, but that's fine because I have value in cars that perform well for the money. I see many high school/college kids drive Subaru and modify them with cool exhausts and probably at big fraction of cost of the BMW M3 my dad bought.

Is it possible for someone who heavily modified their Subaru outperform a stock M3? Assuming the money they put in is still significantly less than buying a stock M3. Or buying the best/most expensive car subaru has to offer? Because when I save enough money I'd like to buy a Subaru and modify it, but the only downside is I know nothing about cars and don't want to put money into something I don't know about so how those guys who modify their cars know what they buy and learn how to do it?

Only downside with the new M3 now is that I can't rev the engine above 4500 RPM for the next 12,000 miles so the engine can break in or I may damage it. Not very knowledgeable about cars, but I know I was told something similar when I bought a new motorized 50cc beach cruiser to not full throttle for one tank of gas because the engine needed to break in. Just a random question I'd like to have answered.
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:39 PM   #2
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simplely put yes.
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:46 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFalcon View Post
Because when I save enough money I'd like to buy a Subaru and modify it, but the only downside is I know nothing about cars and don't want to put money into something I don't know about so how those guys who modify their cars know what they buy and learn how to do it?
1.)find circle jerk thread
2.)buy parts
3.)frantically search on wtf it is you just bought
4.)ask in noob section if they will fit
5.)take made tyte angles and enjoy nut huggers
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:49 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFalcon View Post
Is it possible for someone who heavily modified their Subaru outperform a stock M3?
I know a Subaru (originally an STI) that, given the same track, the same level of tires (sizes appropriate for the individual cars), both cars set up well, and both cars driven by me, is faster around a road course than our GT3 RS. And lest you blame the driver, I can actually use the GT3, so this isn't just a case of the easier car being faster. However, this particular Subaru is so heavily modified, it's less practical than the GT3. The Scooby isn't street legal. It has no rear doors (just body panels) leading to no rear seat. The trunk is full of a fuel cell. As the GT3 RS is faster than an M3, it's certainly possible to modify a Subaru to outperform an M3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFalcon View Post
Assuming the money they put in is still significantly less than buying a stock M3.
That's questionable and will depend on a lot of other factors. How streetable would you want the car to be? How much of an emphasis on comfort, on practicality? Are the rear seats important? How much weight reduction can you tolerate (cars get loud and squeaky/rattly/etc. with significant weight reduction)?

Honestly, I'd suggest you follow others' build threads for a while. Watch people build up their Subarus. See what they find useful, what they find not worthwhile, what they find tolerable, what they don't. You'll be able to get a much better idea of what you could do, what you would enjoy doing, from that. You'll also learn a lot about cars in the process, so when it becomes time to consider modifying your car, you'll come from a much more informed position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFalcon View Post
IOnly downside with the new M3 now is that I can't rev the engine above 4500 RPM for the next 12,000 miles so the engine can break in or I may damage it. Not very knowledgeable about cars, but I know I was told something similar when I bought a new motorized 50cc beach cruiser to not full throttle for one tank of gas because the engine needed to break in. Just a random question I'd like to have answered.
12,000 miles? Not, say, 1,200? Or even... 600? Recommended break-in seems to vary depending on manufacturer and country of purchase. Really, what you should do to break in the engine is make sure you vary the revs, and don't make extensive use of the top end (last 1,000rpm or so) for the first few hundred miles (500 to 1000, check your manual to see what's recommended for your car). For other components, either a few tests (pushing the brakes hard to make sure they grip well and ABS engages as it should) or the engine break-in (for things like the transmission) should be fine.
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFalcon View Post
What Subaru can beat an M3?
I'm on vacation from teaching, but this thread makes me feel like I'm at school. ^^ This is the kind of stuff I hear kids say all the time. Can a Corvette beat a Ferrari? Could a lion beat a wolverine in a fight?
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:06 PM   #6
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Because racecar.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:07 PM   #7
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If you don't know the first thing about cars, I wouldn't advise you to mod a car to beat your daddy's m3 Lol. It will take lots of money and a rebuilt motor
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFalcon View Post
Only downside with the new M3 now is that I can't rev the engine above 4500 RPM for the next 12,000 miles so the engine can break in or I may damage it. Not very knowledgeable about cars, but I know I was told something similar when I bought a new motorized 50cc beach cruiser to not full throttle for one tank of gas because the engine needed to break in.
I'd say go out in Daddy's car, rev the LIVING SNOT out of it while doing some mad donuts in the school parking lot (you know, so you can make the rear tires bald) until the engine GRENADES into a million pieces. Make sure somebody gets it on video so you can post it on YouTube.

You'll always have your 50cc beach cruiser.......
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:24 PM   #9
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:32 PM   #10
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Love the slow mo noooooooooooo! Lol
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:33 PM   #11
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So look for the highlights of this year's Lime Rock Grand Am series races. The lone STi was heading for a clear win over the 2 Turner Motorsports M3's when one of them pretty much pushed him off track coming into big bend, putting them out of the race. These are both modified cars for racing, but the Subaru was pretty much limited to stage 2 level tuning and suspension mods. The Turner drivers had years more experience as well, so this was a huge accomplishment for the sole Subaru. We were there.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:52 PM   #12
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This should answer your question.



I love that M3 crash video! That sucks that it happened, but he most likely never took an advanced driving course as his skills just displayed.. (not being on throttle while cornering, not braking before going over a crest that you have no idea whats on the other side. his steering inputs were ridiculously sharp and not smooth, good way to upset the chassis.) I'm no pro, but i don't do dumb **** like that in an $80k car.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:56 PM   #13
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Yup, LUMBERZACK i was watching that and even only with a few track days under the belt i was like really...... Even if the video wasn't titled crashed into a rock you could see it coming.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:20 PM   #14
Sir-Knight
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As much as I like best motoring, I find they are very biased against imports (into japan). I would not be surprised if they sandbagged the german cars a little. :P

Tsukuba really favors the lotus (and any other super light/powerful cars) since it's such a small and tight course.


Anywho... back to that noooooooooooooooooo

that guy was so far beyond his skill that he noooooooooooooooooed after the airbags deployed and after the car came to a stop... which meant he had no idea things were even going wrong over the 2nd last crest... he should've felt the brake go to the floor as he pretty much yumped the 2 crests before he went airborne. Talk about not even knowing what was going on with the car.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFalcon View Post
Because when I save enough money I'd like to buy a Subaru and modify it, but the only downside is I know nothing about cars and don't want to put money into something I don't know about so how those guys who modify their cars know what they buy and learn how to do it?
Here is Unabomber's Manifesto... Spend a couple of nights reading each section. This will help you with some basic knowledge, and will help guide you in the right direction when you finally get your Subaru and start modding it. I've been here for a while (not as long as some people), and I still browse here from time to time as a refresher...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533787
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:30 PM   #16
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I can make whatever I want, beat whatever I want it to beat.
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Old 12-29-2012, 01:04 AM   #17
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Yes, fairly easily. Stock m3 is like a 12.6 1/4 mile? You can get low 13s stock. People have gotten 12.6 at only stage 2. Stock m3 gets 0.95g skidpad. STI gets 0.93g. Simple alignment and you're there.

Obviously 1/4 mile and skidpad numbers don't necessarily predict track time outcomes but they're a good predictor.
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Old 12-29-2012, 01:47 AM   #18
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Sorry, wrong thread.
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:22 AM   #19
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According to this, the STi beat out the E92 M3 by 7 seconds on Nurburgring. Note though that the early e46 M3 CSL has a time 5 seconds faster than the STi, with the super rare M3 GTS a couple seconds faster than that.

Keep in mind the STi used was a JDM 2.0 with a larger turbo designed for 320 HP. Whitch is chicken scratch in terms of power gains. Any typical STi can see that type of bump through tuning alone. Add a Stage II type of kit (which will cost about what the first service inspection runs on the M3) and a couple cool stickers and you can spank an M3.

Having owned an E46 M3 I will say this though, the car is extremely quick and flickable. Between the SMGII, the suspension setup, and the power delivery, it is really easy to drive quickly. The STi on the other hand requires a slightly lighter touch, you almost have to let the car wander (sometimes) and it feels a bit looser. Once you're used to the bit of understeer and navigating the transmission so you stay in boost , and sort the DCCD, the STi is just as fun to drive, way cheaper to maintain, and for all intents and purposes, on the same performance level.
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:29 AM   #20
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Oh, and if the roads are wet, the Subaru will eat an M3. There is no amount of tire an M3 wont leave on a wet road. Seriously though, M3 in the wet make you look like a drifting champion even though everything you do will be in slow mo.
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:39 AM   #21
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I think a stage 2 sti with some suspension goodies and stickier tires should beat an m3 around a track.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:10 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFalcon View Post
Only downside with the new M3 now is that I can't rev the engine above 4500 RPM for the next 12,000 miles so the engine can break in or I may damage it. Not very knowledgeable about cars, .
more like clueless about cars. get a nice new hyundai
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:31 AM   #23
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You can't beat the sweet sound of the m3 engine.

The boxer rumble is good, especially with stage 2 exhaust, but the m3 mean business.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:50 AM   #24
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great start by the STI driver there in the vid, very nice driving. I would like to be able to launch like that w/o fear of grenading anything..
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:46 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by mrkyle3 View Post
Yes, fairly easily. Stock m3 is like a 12.6 1/4 mile? You can get low 13s stock. People have gotten 12.6 at only stage 2. Stock m3 gets 0.95g skidpad. STI gets 0.93g. Simple alignment and you're there.

Obviously 1/4 mile and skidpad numbers don't necessarily predict track time outcomes but they're a good predictor.
Look at the trap speed. That's the indicator of power/weight, ET is skewed by the AWD launch.

Two cars with the same trap speed are going to have very similar low speed (20-120) acceleration.
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