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Old 12-29-2012, 10:05 PM   #76
chris the man
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I honestyly didn't even look back at who posted that before...glad we're on the same page there at least.

I have done my research also...Except i have done it on Subarus. My car was the mule for the prototype of this turbo. So for several months i was the only one with it. I have spoken to Rob in person and at great length about it during the design process and helped provide data back about the performance of the turbo.

Statements like the one about the compressor cover being the only difference (even if it is on the DSM/EVO) is how things get screwed up and misinformation gets spread. I understand your experience is with DSM's...but this is a Subaru forum, and we all know that DSM's and Subarus respond drastically different to the exact same turbo.

I can tell you from what i have observed on my own car that the Subaru HTA71 is nothing like the Subaru HTA68 on pump gas.
rob is my older brother lol

and im sure he would defiantly agree with this


***kidding lol
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Last edited by chris the man; 12-30-2012 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:08 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by WhatTurboLag? View Post
Because I want a billet ball bearing turbo with an anti surge cover.
You have a billet compressor, but not the surge.

http://www.bptstore.com/Subaru-WRXST...rger_p_25.html

http://www.bptstore.com/Subaru-WRXST...rger_p_16.html
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:43 PM   #78
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Those both are the turbos I want, but in twin scroll.

But I might be able to put an anti surge cover on one of those I gotta do more research.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:53 AM   #79
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Just my 2 cents, but I had a Forced Performance 68hta and HATED it. I have a stroker, so maybe my setup is weird, but until we went with a 10 cm^2 hotside, we had a hard time getting more than 300 whp. Throughout the whole process the customer services was lacking, and worse often incompetent giving bad information.

The moral of the story is that I will never buy a FP product again. Avoid the hype people. Who cares what a maxed out tune with e85 and high boost looks like. It isn't a tune you want to run day to day.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:10 AM   #80
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Just my 2 cents, but I had a Forced Performance 68hta and HATED it. I have a stroker, so maybe my setup is weird, but until we went with a 10 cm^2 hotside, we had a hard time getting more than 300 whp. Throughout the whole process the customer services was lacking, and worse often incompetent giving bad information.

The moral of the story is that I will never buy a FP product again. Avoid the hype people. Who cares what a maxed out tune with e85 and high boost looks like. It isn't a tune you want to run day to day.
My tune isn't close to maxxed out, and doesn't run high boost. I'm only running around 22 psi (originally designed to run 26-27). Have been daily driving the car for months now without a single issue.

I can't speak to the customer service issue, I havn't had any more or less problems dealing with FP than I have with any other high performance vendor.

It's not hype if it works.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:19 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by smadasam View Post
Just my 2 cents, but I had a Forced Performance 68hta and HATED it. I have a stroker, so maybe my setup is weird, but until we went with a 10 cm^2 hotside, we had a hard time getting more than 300 whp. Throughout the whole process the customer services was lacking, and worse often incompetent giving bad information.

The moral of the story is that I will never buy a FP product again. Avoid the hype people. Who cares what a maxed out tune with e85 and high boost looks like. It isn't a tune you want to run day to day.
Read your thread -- obviously I benefited from your experimentation -- Dom wouldn't even install mine without me agreeing to go with the 10cm.

As it is, my setup has been very successful on pump 92, but my motor is a completely different build than yours.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:07 PM   #82
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It's not hype if it works.
"Works" is a very non-precise word. MPS got it to "work" for me and got about 330 whp using the Blouch 10 cm^2 hotside on pump gas, but it was still a laggy turd. Without the 10 cm^2 hotside, that turbo caused a huge restriction. The off boost response was terrible. If I was already cruising a med RPM and then wanted to accelerate it would take for ever to get to my target boost, normally in time to shift. Makes 330 whp and sucks most of the time while driving != works to me.

I have a stroked ej205, so my build may be non-standard, but with my rotated Garrett gtx3071r, the drivability is night an day. I know it isn't exactly the same, but I provide it as a counter point. I have more power everywhere (+100 whp more on top, +20 lbs tq down low), get to peak boost several 100 RPM faster, and there is not much lag off of boost in cursing situations whereas sometime the FP sometimes would not hit the target boost. Making over 400+ whp and being responsive == works.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:25 AM   #83
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i placed an order for my hta71. i will post results in few weeks or so.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:55 AM   #84
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let me see the results .. looking to buy one too for my fozzie
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:14 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by smadasam View Post
"Works" is a very non-precise word. MPS got it to "work" for me and got about 330 whp using the Blouch 10 cm^2 hotside on pump gas, but it was still a laggy turd. Without the 10 cm^2 hotside, that turbo caused a huge restriction. The off boost response was terrible. If I was already cruising a med RPM and then wanted to accelerate it would take for ever to get to my target boost, normally in time to shift. Makes 330 whp and sucks most of the time while driving != works to me.

I have a stroked ej205, so my build may be non-standard, but with my rotated Garrett gtx3071r, the drivability is night an day. I know it isn't exactly the same, but I provide it as a counter point. I have more power everywhere (+100 whp more on top, +20 lbs tq down low), get to peak boost several 100 RPM faster, and there is not much lag off of boost in cursing situations whereas sometime the FP sometimes would not hit the target boost. Making over 400+ whp and being responsive == works.
It's not non-precise. My turbo works great, excellent boost response (better than any other similar sized turbo i have tried) and it makes great power for it's size. I say it works because of my graph and results.

Besides, this thread is about the HTA71, not the HTA68. Many people have had sucess with the 68. I'm sorry that you had issues with getting it to work for your particular application. However, the HTA71 is an excellent turbo and my car is a stellar example of that.

FP turbos have been working well in this segment for years, the sucess of the Green, Red, Black, etc shows that they make good turbos that work well. Your experece with the HTA68 (arguably their most controversial turbo) shouldn't define them as a company or the products they build.

That was the basis of my statement. The HTA71 isn't hype. it really works.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:30 AM   #86
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Off course the HTA71 is a hype to be, it's just a reasonable priced turbo that pushes good torque and power.

But.......to my opnion .......

.....it's just another 71mm compressor with a to small hotside, that comes relatively cheap and will do for 95% of the scooby community that's working in the powerlevels the hta71 could deliver. It fooks with the engine's VE due to the small hotside, so you have to run high boost. And not a **** was given. Because it's all about the pub-numbers......but it performance for what you pay for it, but do not expect miracles. A 71mm compressor should do ca 430hp, and that's just what it does.

Now if you take a decent -non cheap ass turbo-, with a proper hotside (10cm or bigger), and super fancy BB, billet compressor, you will notice you need MUCH less boost for same output (or even more output) and much more toppower. Your AIT will go down drastically, which will able you to push timing more. In the end, when everything matches inside the engine, you will push either bigger numbers, or can step down in compressor size to keep same numbers but gain in spool and response.

For what it's worth, a little info on my setup (08Sti)
I'm running a MDX321T in stock location from Lateral Performance (Turbo Dynamics) which is a hybrid GT3071, with a 68mm billet compressor wheel, and the hotside untouched (only IWG) Result 400Nm/2400rpm 600Nm/3000rpm, 685Nm(500ftlbs) 3250rpm and 430hp from 4200rpm till redline (on a built Cosworth Motor 8,6 CR with std heads). The respons is awesome, pushing all this air through the std Sti 08 Tmic. Yes I stepped down in size, caise my priority was spool, respons, and early torque. I do not say my setup is better than an HTA71, I just would like to point out that there is power and power. Topend is most probably the same, but the area under the graph is unequalled.

A good turbo doesn't come cheap, and the initial feeling with a fresh mounted HTA71 will be freaking awesome, I know that, i've done that

Till the moment somebody with a quality built lines up, hits the throttle, and just rockets off. You will not and cannot believe your eyes at that moment.

But when you talk to the guy that just killed you massively, and start thinking for yourself in stead of following main stream mods that fit your car, but actually do not suit the engine

And to my opinion that's what the HTA71 is and will be, just another mainstream 71mm compressor turbo.

No trolling intended,

Cheers
Erik (The Netherlands)

Last edited by Dutch Devotion; 03-01-2013 at 05:10 PM. Reason: stupid typo's :)
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:57 PM   #87
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I agree with you that a turbo costing 2x as much with a ball bearing center section, billet whels, etc will be (and damn well should be) better. But trying to compare a $2500 turbo to a $1200 turbo is kinda silly. A $2500 turbo better have more area under the graph. Saying that these are cheap-ass turbos is, IMHO, ignorance. They have not shown to have any longevity problems, and power is power.

Just cause people don't run out and buy the most expensive thing they can doesn't mean they aren't thinking for themselves (actually, it could be said that the 'if it's expensive it must be good' mentality is the definition of not thinking for yourself)...case in point, this turbo didn't even exist in a Subaru variant before my car...it was made for my specific application...it worked so well, they decided to offer it as a standard turbo in their lineup. I havn't been beaten by anyone yet simply because their turbo cost more than mine and there isn't anything wrong with building a powerful, competition proven car on a budget.

I don't think an inexpensive turbo that does what it claims to do is hype. That's my point.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:24 PM   #88
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Thanks for your constructive reply (y)

Power does not equal power
That's my whole point.....
You need area under the graph to be really quick.

And what makes you get a boner is response and crispyness (don't know another word for that feeling).

If you combine this area, spool, response and crispyness, I think we're talking "quality of power" or something.

The 71hta is not a cheap ass turbo, sorry for my bad insinuation, it will become a mainstream mod, same like the super evoIII td05-16G once was. And that's nothing to be ashamed of, it might hype, or not, isn't even important I would say, what it could be, most probably, is a hughe money machine for FP, and for that I will take my hat off and salute FP again. They manage to do it every time again and again. super evo3 16G / 68hta / 71hta

Last edited by Dutch Devotion; 03-01-2013 at 02:26 PM. Reason: taking the Dutch vibe out of the English LOL
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:35 PM   #89
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And what makes you get a boner is response and crispyness (don't know another word for that feeling).

Best quote ever! I love this guy.

Seriously though, i completely agree. The HTA71 will become (or already is) a mainstream turbo for those on a budget...and i don't think there is anything wrong with that. You can still make serious power with them, and have a car that is very fast. I also agree that more expensive turbos with fancy covers and BB centers, and Billet wheels, will perform better...ball bearing over journal bearing?

I mean come on...that's just physics.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:39 PM   #90
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Erik, the 71HTA works PERFECTLY just as it comes with 8cm turbine housing and even with small compressor housing, it's amazing! It can't compete with the turbo you have, but at the price it's a VERY nice little turbo. It delivers what the 68HTA couldn't deliver, spools about the same as the former, but with LOTS more power.

But to be honest, a TD05H 20G with 8cm turbine housing is quite similar... I couldn't compare both in the same car and neither was I able to push the 71HTA to it's limits (because running out of injector), but even when ABSOLUTELY not pushed the 71HTA outperformed the 68HTA quite easily.

The turbo you have is not comparable with a GTX3071R as yours is noticable smaller, it has the "normal" GT3071R turbine wheel, combined with a 68 mm billet compressor which flows about the same as the Garrett 71 mm compressor. Because of the smaller and lighter compressor the response of your turbo is better than the non-billet version. It's an amazing turbo! (as you have discovered)

And the HTA71 isn't a super "boner" type of turbo (to take your words), but it does a lot of things very well.
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Old 03-01-2013, 03:24 PM   #91
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Hi Mark thanks for jumping in.
So we agree, I should redefine;
the HTA71 gives a pretty good boner,
the MDX321T gives instant and continuous orgasm.
Case closed.


To be serious, what I like to point out, the 71hta will work for 99% of the guys. It's not a bad turbo, not at all. I think it's a very clever move of FP to put it on the market
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:18 AM   #92
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This is a decent description Erik!

It's not (only) a clever move from FP, but one which was needed, as the HTA68 didn't deliver what was promised... (which wasn't really a problem for me, as I have used this turbo with other goal in mind and it's response was amazingly good for the power it could make) I don't know if this one (71HTA) does exactly what is promised, but what I DO know from experience with this turbo, that is DELIVERS what I expect it to do and MORE! It makes very good power at quite low boost levels, I maxed out the injectors and couldn't (and didn't want to, as the car already had quite a bit more power as I had promised the customer) test what it did at even higher boost. But I will test this sooner or later.
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:22 AM   #93
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I disagree, a 16g will have same overall performance. a good tune will make a vf 39 not drop off up top.
Incorrect sir. My evo3 16g on 91oct and 19.3psi outperformed my buddy's vf39 on E85 and 19.5psi. Especially in the top end. It also outperformed another buddy's vf48 on E85 and 22psi.

A small 16g might perform the same as a vf turbo...
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:07 AM   #94
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Incorrect sir. My evo3 16g on 91oct and 19.3psi outperformed my buddy's vf39 on E85 and 19.5psi. Especially in the top end. It also outperformed another buddy's vf48 on E85 and 22psi.

A small 16g might perform the same as a vf turbo...
That's about what I would expect. A small 16g will still outperform a vf, at least on the top end.
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:44 PM   #95
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That's about what I would expect. A small 16g will still outperform a vf, at least on the top end.
On the other hand, VF39's on E85 have run 11.5's. I'm not sure any 16g could match this. I'll search a little and edit if necessary.

Edit -- Ok, here's a long thread on 18g and 16g 1/4 mile times. Looks like 16g's can run into the 11's, and 18g's can even break into the tens:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1058200

Last edited by Dave D.; 09-12-2013 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 09-13-2013, 12:57 AM   #96
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On the other hand, VF39's on E85 have run 11.5's. I'm not sure any 16g could match this. I'll search a little and edit if necessary.

Edit -- Ok, here's a long thread on 18g and 16g 1/4 mile times. Looks like 16g's can run into the 11's, and 18g's can even break into the tens:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1058200
The only vf39 cars running 11's are highly modified. Your average stage 2 sti on E85 won't touch 11's.

The reason why you don't see a lot of fast 16g wrxs or stis is because nobody pushes the turbo the way it's meant to be pushed. And evo3 16g doesn't really even wake up till 18-20psi. Dsm guys run these turbos into the 28-30psi range.

A 16g isn't popular on the ej25 because people say that it's too small. Thus, there aren't a lot of people with built a bottom end pushing 28-30psi on E85 to really turn up any results. A bug eye went 10.80 with an 18g... an 18g only flows 25cfm more than an evo3 16g 8cm.
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Old 09-13-2013, 01:14 AM   #97
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On the other hand, VF39's on E85 have run 11.5's. I'm not sure any 16g could match this. I'll search a little and edit if necessary.

Edit -- Ok, here's a long thread on 18g and 16g 1/4 mile times. Looks like 16g's can run into the 11's, and 18g's can even break into the tens:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1058200
Thanks for the edit. Good to know. Aren't the fast vf39 cars using a lot of weight reduction too? I'm sure some the 16 and 18gs are as well.
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Old 04-13-2014, 10:14 AM   #98
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Anyone else have new information about results with this little guy?
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Old 04-13-2014, 02:59 PM   #99
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Anyone else have new information about results with this little guy?
Requires bigger than 1000cc injectors on e85. Capable of 500wtq on e85. And high 400's whp.
Pk tq around 4500rpm. 500whp could probably be reached with more boost at redline. But 475ish whp is with tapered boost 20psi at redline. 28psi peak
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:07 PM   #100
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Requires bigger than 1000cc injectors on e85. Capable of 500wtq on e85. And high 400's whp.
Pk tq around 4500rpm. 500whp could probably be reached with more boost at redline. But 475ish whp is with tapered boost 20psi at redline. 28psi peak
When you say more than 1000cc's, do you mean at stock base pressure?

Peak torque at 4500 meaning peak boost right around there as well? Was that a stock 2.5 motor or a built something?

Pretty exciting to hear the WHP possibilities!
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