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Old 12-31-2012, 10:27 PM   #251
Blitzkrieg
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Regarding the Article,

I just read the actual article. Apparently Car and driver lost the keyless fob before they could actually do a true hot lap in the car. Some Shmoe left it on top of the car during one of the laps and the fob just slid off into oblivion. So the car ended up shutting down and they didn't recover the fob. The time posted was the day before the planned hot laps. (prob the hot laps where done by a paid professional.)

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Old 12-31-2012, 10:59 PM   #252
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I just find it highly amusing because those that rant about the BRZ not having enough power are likely not complaining about the ST's power output. It just highlights that for most car enthusiasts planting your foot on the go pedal is what makes a car fun.

I don't buy cars on track times. My MINI S is unlikely to come close to any of these cars on a track but it is still a blast to drive and it makes me smile. Yup, a portly V8 charger will ape rape my MINI around any given track except for the tightest of auto-x courses, but I'd chose my MINI every single day.

I also find these lap times amusing because the ST is OT's latest hotness. OT keeps telling me that the BRZ is just an underpowered, not-that-light, smaller, RWD Impreza.
My old 5200pb Jeep would dominate that buttercup of yours.
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:30 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post

I just find it highly amusing because those that rant about the BRZ not having enough power are likely not complaining about the ST's power output. It just highlights that for most car enthusiasts planting your foot on the go pedal is what makes a car fun.
To be fair, if the BRZ were putting down ST power/torque numbers, there would be very few complaints, if any.
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:47 PM   #254
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My old 5200pb Jeep would dominate that buttercup of yours.
If the competition was the ability to get single digit mpg, I concede. As far as fun to drive, a small, light responsive, stick shift with an LSD is the winner in my book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shavenyak View Post
To be fair, if the BRZ were putting down ST power/torque numbers, there would be very few complaints, if any.
Given finite R&D money, I'm glad Subaru and toyota put the money where they did. The car is simply a peach. Yeah, more power would make it faster, but if I had to give up some of the handling for more power to keep the price point, I'd take the 200hp version every day of the week. Maybe they'll make a turbo one at some point, but for the extra cost, I'd still pick the one they built. High strung and nimble is how I like it.
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:52 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
Regarding the Article,

I just read the actual article. Apparently Car and driver lost the keyless fob before they could actually do a true hot lap in the car. Some Shmoe left it on top of the car during one of the laps and the fob just slid off into oblivion. So the car ended up shutting down and they didn't recover the fob. The time posted was the day before the planned hot laps. (prob the hot laps where done by a paid professional.)

BlitZ
I'm gonna go ahead and believe you, and say this makes a lot of sense. Especially on a fast track like VIR, there would have to be something seriously wrong with the ST for it to come in behind the BRZ.

Also they should have excluded the time completely. Drama = attention I suppose.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:03 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by fredzy
I'm gonna go ahead and believe you, and say this makes a lot of sense. Especially on a fast track like VIR, there would have to be something seriously wrong with the ST for it to come in behind the BRZ.

Also they should have excluded the time completely. Drama = attention I suppose.
I don't see why you expect the brz to come behind the st.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:01 PM   #257
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Because the ST pulls like a freight train, in all gears with a mountain of torque. I would bet the ST would more than enough car to handle the BRZ on most tracks. That explanation of the ST not getting a real hot lap sounds very reasonable.

The ST is a VERY good handling car, has great tires, and has tons of power. The BRZ has a great chassis, but so so tires, and moderate power. It was not designed for lap times. It was designed for fun.

I found it VERY hard to believe the ST would lose to a BRZ on any track where power can be used. That explanation totally makes sense.
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:09 PM   #258
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Because the ST pulls like a freight train, in all gears with a mountain of torque.
Yes... for 20 seconds. And then the overboost shuts off and the car no longer reaches anywhere near its nominal peak torque for the rest of the lap, as the article explains.

Also the ST's brake-based slip control let the inside front wheel spin coming out of corners, vs. the BRZ with less torque but no waste.
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:24 PM   #259
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Motortrend has Randy Probst run the ST and BRZ back to back and the Focus is faster. Randy always does a nice job of breaking down the cars strength and weaknesses while driving.

http://wot.motortrend.com/2013-ford-...#axzz2GlVM3teK
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:35 PM   #260
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If the competition was the ability to get single digit mpg, I concede. As far as fun to drive, a small, light responsive, stick shift with an LSD is the winner in my book.
That thing would give anyone a run for its single digit mpg money.

As for the comparison of the BRZ and ST, these two cars delivery fun in totally different ways that's all. The BRZ is a purest in terms of track while the ST is surprising well designed for any previous FWD car, and they both also have their flaws.
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:05 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
Motortrend has Randy Probst run the ST and BRZ back to back and the Focus is faster. Randy always does a nice job of breaking down the cars strength and weaknesses while driving.

http://wot.motortrend.com/2013-ford-...#axzz2GlVM3teK
good review. i just watched this. hard to believe that the stability control cant be turned off in the golf r. what a killjoy.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:55 PM   #262
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It can be...in less than 30 minutes..
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:57 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by bblacha View Post
Yes... for 20 seconds. And then the overboost shuts off and the car no longer reaches anywhere near its nominal peak torque for the rest of the lap, as the article explains.

Also the ST's brake-based slip control let the inside front wheel spin coming out of corners, vs. the BRZ with less torque but no waste.
How often are you on WOT for more than 20 seconds! HAHA

And after 20 seconds it has a HUGE drop off form 270 ft lbs to 250 ft lbs.

OH yeah, NO where near its peak numbers. HAHA
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:01 PM   #264
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I don't see why you expect the brz to come behind the st.
For the reasons Scrappy mentions, and I emphasize the fact that the track is fast. The 50 hp surplus in the straights would more than make up for the added weight and wheelspin in the corners. The torque wouldn't hurt to get that mass moving out of the corners, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
Motortrend has Randy Probst run the ST and BRZ back to back and the Focus is faster. Randy always does a nice job of breaking down the cars strength and weaknesses while driving.

http://wot.motortrend.com/2013-ford-...#axzz2GlVM3teK
It was really close. Not sure what track it was, but it seemed tighter/slower than say VIR, so the BRZ wasn't at a disadvantage.

I love how little work he has to do in the BRZ, just gently guide it along. So smooth.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:03 PM   #265
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See the price difference too? Wowzers!
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:04 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
Regarding the Article,

I just read the actual article. Apparently Car and driver lost the keyless fob before they could actually do a true hot lap in the car. Some Shmoe left it on top of the car during one of the laps and the fob just slid off into oblivion. So the car ended up shutting down and they didn't recover the fob. The time posted was the day before the planned hot laps. (prob the hot laps where done by a paid professional.)

BlitZ
No, that is not what the article said. You claimed to have read it?

They ran hot laps with all cars over the course of 2 days, with the same drivers. They ran hot laps day 1 in the ST, but didn't get a chance to run a hot lap day 2 with the ST.

The drivers were the same on day 1 and day 2, and while the majority of cars set a faster day 2 time compared to their day 1 time, not all of them did.

They noted the slow lap time on the hotlaps they did run had much to do with the car cutting boost.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:34 PM   #267
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They noted the slow lap time on the hotlaps they did run had much to do with the car cutting boost.
This cutting boost - is this something the car doesn't normally do? Or are they talking about the normal drop in torque after 4500 rpm or so?
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:56 PM   #268
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This cutting boost - is this something the car doesn't normally do? Or are they talking about the normal drop in torque after 4500 rpm or so?

Overboost technology. Get a tuner.

http://www.slashgear.com/ford-talks-...logy-15234112/
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:52 AM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
Motortrend has Randy Probst run the ST and BRZ back to back and the Focus is faster. Randy always does a nice job of breaking down the cars strength and weaknesses while driving.

http://wot.motortrend.com/2013-ford-...#axzz2GlVM3teK
BRZ- 1:30:32
ST - 1:29:27

That's a very close 0.7s/minute... and I would wager the BRZ would be faster on the ST's tire compound.

That said, the ST should still be faster around VIR given the same tires.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:40 AM   #270
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That said, I bet no one here can get either car around VIR within 10secs of Probst's times.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:19 AM   #271
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All these reviews make me really want to test drive one... That guy in the Motor Trend one was practically giggling while he drove the ST.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:23 AM   #272
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good on you man. THE test drive is the single most important thing... if it makes you smile buy it.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:28 AM   #273
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All these reviews make me really want to test drive one... That guy in the Motor Trend one was practically giggling while he drove the ST.
That's why I said (in the other thread I think) that was a pretty good idea of how the ST makes you feel. I also said I drive like I'm 16 again.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:37 AM   #274
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I took a test drive of an ST this past week and it was a blast. The car felt really solid, much better stock suspension than my WRX, and it pulled pretty hard too, just don't forget about torque steer.

I think its just a bit too expensive though, the one I tested was 30k. I'm sure with fewer options and some haggling it could go down a bit, but I think 26-27k would be the sweet zone. I liked it a lot more than the MS3, but not for 6k more.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:50 AM   #275
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That's the thing.. being sold at Ford dealerships means it is far cheaper than the MSRP would suggest.
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