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Old 01-02-2013, 12:10 PM   #276
fredzy
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I took a test drive of an ST this past week and it was a blast. The car felt really solid, much better stock suspension than my WRX, and it pulled pretty hard too, just don't forget about torque steer.

I think its just a bit too expensive though, the one I tested was 30k. I'm sure with fewer options and some haggling it could go down a bit, but I think 26-27k would be the sweet zone. I liked it a lot more than the MS3, but not for 6k more.
That car must have had ST3 package (heated seats, xenons etc.) I think ST2 package, no sunroof and some haggling will get you below $27k easily. But about the haggling...

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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
That's the thing.. being sold at Ford dealerships means it is far cheaper than the MSRP would suggest.
What could I expect to get an average Ford dealer to knock off of a loaded ST? And what if I have them order me one - does that pretty much cancel out a chance of getting some mark-up removed?
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:29 PM   #277
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I got my ST2 with roof and nav for $27,700. Heated seats would be nice but I could care less as the car seems to heat up quicker than anything I've had before.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:38 PM   #278
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That's the thing.. being sold at Ford dealerships means it is far cheaper than the MSRP would suggest.
Ford is great as you take the incentives of the month right off the top before you even start negotiating price. When I bought my 2012 Mustang GT it was in February 2011 and got $6k off the car before we even talked money. The only catch is that is that all the rebates are reflected in resale pricing.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:26 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by stanrc View Post
I took a test drive of an ST this past week and it was a blast. The car felt really solid, much better stock suspension than my WRX, and it pulled pretty hard too, just don't forget about torque steer.

I think its just a bit too expensive though, the one I tested was 30k. I'm sure with fewer options and some haggling it could go down a bit, but I think 26-27k would be the sweet zone. I liked it a lot more than the MS3, but not for 6k more.
That would be an ST2...partial leather comes in at 27.7k with sunroof.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:27 PM   #280
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It looks like the incentives might reset tomorrow. There's nothing right now on the ST except I think 0% financing and a $1000 "conquest" thing. Seeing as this was the end of the year big-deal time I doubt there will be better incentives for a while. The ST is still new and (I would think) in-demand, though they've all been sitting on lots around here. Winter, I suppose.

Every day I say "eh, I'll just go buy the ST now " But then I'm reminded that I will have to buy a set of winter wheels/tires and deal with all that... and it's so small inside.. and I just put new tires on my VW and the ST's too juvenile and50otherlittlethings then I say ... "eh, no, I'll wait and see about the next WRX " You're on thin ice, Subaru! Throw me a frickin' bone here!
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:24 PM   #281
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Every day I say "eh, I'll just go buy the ST now " But then I'm reminded that I will have to buy a set of winter wheels/tires and deal with all that... and it's so small inside.. and I just put new tires on my VW and the ST's too juvenile and50otherlittlethings then I say ... "eh, no, I'll wait and see about the next WRX " You're on thin ice, Subaru! Throw me a frickin' bone here!
100%.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:11 PM   #282
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That would be an ST2...partial leather comes in at 27.7k with sunroof.
For that kind'a money I'd wait a few more months and grab a new Forester XT. Really, it's just as fast in a straight line as the ST (per Subaru's 60mph estimates) and you still get AWD and a boatload warm cuddly Subie "love"

I'm kind of tempted to get base model ST to replace my barely alive DD, but I'd only get a base ST since its still just a $24.5k Focus. Even in base trim, I still wince a little at buying a Focus for that much $$$. Too bad the H6 Legacy doesn't come with a stick
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:32 PM   #283
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You ain't having this much fun in a Forrester.

Last edited by BacDoc; 01-02-2013 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:44 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by GetTheLedOut View Post
For that kind'a money I'd wait a few more months and grab a new Forester XT. Really, it's just as fast in a straight line as the ST (per Subaru's 60mph estimates) and you still get AWD and a boatload warm cuddly Subie "love"

I'm kind of tempted to get base model ST to replace my barely alive DD, but I'd only get a base ST since its still just a $24.5k Focus. Even in base trim, I still wince a little at buying a Focus for that much $$$. Too bad the H6 Legacy doesn't come with a stick
A forester vs an ST. Really, not even the same zip code in terms of driving dynamics. The Charger is quick in a straight line as well, but does that mean it is a great driving car.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:48 PM   #285
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I'm definitely going to have to test drive one of these once winter's over. But then I'll probably wash the RS, remember it's running flawlessly and continue driving it into the ground.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:20 PM   #286
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I'm definitely going to have to test drive one of these once winter's over. But then I'll probably wash the RS, remember it's running flawlessly and continue driving it into the ground.
Careful, it's a hoot to drive. If I didn't feel so cramped inside I'd probably be having a harder time resisting one.

But I wasn't in one very long, and im sure I could find a comfortable position. I really shouldn't think about this car again
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:25 AM   #287
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For that kind'a money I'd wait a few more months and grab a new Forester XT.
Me too, but... even though I could sacrifice the driving dynamics for the interior size... what makes these vehicles so different to me is the F-XT is auto-only, the ST is manual.
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:33 AM   #288
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Me too, but... even though I could sacrifice the driving dynamics for the interior size... what makes these vehicles so different to me is the F-XT is auto-only, the ST is manual.
The FXT gives you wheel mounted flappy paddle shifters. IDK, but Subie says 60mph in 6.2s in an FXT, and best 60mph in the ST seems to be very high 5s, like 5.8, 5.9... And the FXT looks like its riding on 215s (in pics I've seen); throw some 235s on and I'd bet 60mph will come a little bit sooner.

Will an FXT corner like an ST? No, not with stock suspension bits. Wish I knew Subies plan for the 2013 calendar year and the WRX/STI...
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:54 AM   #289
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you cannot be serious...

I guarantee that the FXT has no issues putting its power to the ground with an automatic...215 is more than enough tire with an AWD turbo AUTOMATIC CAR..
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:45 AM   #290
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you cannot be serious...

I guarantee that the FXT has no issues putting its power to the ground with an automatic...215 is more than enough tire with an AWD turbo AUTOMATIC CAR..
Why can't I be serious? My rex came with skinny 215s and I'd get wheel spin downshifting from 5th to 4th on the x-way in the rain. When I went to 235s, mysteriously - strangely - that phenomena went away. I guess it's a mystery and tires matter not to performance.

Of course I'm not saying a XT will slalom like an ST, but I thought all you guys were looking at the ST as a DD and not a track car. For DD duties, I'd take an XT, and if I wanted it faster than Subies reported 6.2s to 60mph times then I'd tune, get wider tires, and I'd bet in a straight line the XT will leave many Ford fanboys going ???

But really, tires don't matter to putting power to the ground? I'd like to see what the ST does with 215s..............................................

....................
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:47 AM   #291
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Well, all meaningful conversation in this thread is done.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:18 AM   #292
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First of all the ST has 235's.
Second, your WRX was a MANUAL so that tells me you have very hamfisted downshifts and no nothing about cars
Third, putting power down in a straight line is rarely ever a problem for any AWD car. ESPECIALLY one with an automatic
Fourth, do you really think the ST guys do not have a tune coming?

THe mere thought you needed more traction in an Auto FXT to put power down in a straight line is just complete nonsense.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:24 AM   #293
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But Scrappy... you're ignoring the FPF.


Flappy Paddle Factor
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:29 AM   #294
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Oh yeah, I forgot that.

Thanks Calamity, I forgot that makes it EXACTLY like a manual.

the salesman told me that, I do not know why I keep forgetting it.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:35 AM   #295
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I test drove both an ST and a Forester XT a few weeks apart. I'll have a hard time taking anyone seriously that considers them similar beyond having 4 doors and a turbo.

Saying the trans is the main difference...is hilarious.

They both feel quick, but the FXT is a boat in comparison to any smaller hatchback. Maybe this will be fixed in the 2014, but I doubt it. It's getting an increase in size.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:38 AM   #296
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THe mere thought you needed more traction in an Auto FXT to put power down in a straight line is just complete nonsense.
The mere thought of an FXT with enough power to have traction problems in a straight line makes me giggle. It would certainly have it's moments...
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:42 AM   #297
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I test drove both an ST and a Forester XT a few weeks apart. I'll have a hard time taking anyone seriously that considers them similar beyond having 4 doors and a turbo.

Saying the trans is the main difference...is hilarious.

They both feel quick, but the FXT is a boat in comparison to any smaller hatchback. Maybe this will be fixed in the 2014, but I doubt it. It's getting an increase in size.
From a physics standpoint, just because it's larger doesn't neccessarily mean it's going to feel worse. It depends on concentration of mass, center of gravity, suspension, etc.

Though it'll assuredly feel like a boat.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:49 AM   #298
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From a physics standpoint, just because it's larger doesn't neccessarily mean it's going to feel worse. It depends on concentration of mass, center of gravity, suspension, etc.

Though it'll assuredly feel like a boat.
Fair enough. My point was, mainly, that I don't see it being compared to the Focus ST. In the same way that not many people compare a WRX and a V6 Rav4.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:14 AM   #299
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Fair enough. My point was, mainly, that I don't see it being compared to the Focus ST. In the same way that not many people compare a WRX and a V6 Rav4.

Yeah, I was just being pidantic. Or a dick, whichever you choose.

What do these cars have for aftermarket so far? I remember there was a company in Britain (Puma, or Cougar, or something? Some kind of big cat?) that was making a prototype exhaust/intake when I sort of stopped following these cars (was debating on buying one). I know Steeda has stuff coming out (intake?), and COBB is working on an AP for it. I heard Ford Racing should have goodies coming out (which would be welcome as warranties are always a nice thing)
From what I remember there were two supposed bottlenecks of the ST for performance. One was the turbo, which everyone thought was a off-the-shelf K04 unit, but turns out it was something else. The rumor was the turbo was only good for around 300 crank hp before it was really out of the compressor map, and even in stock form wasn't too far from being out of the efficiency range. The other headache I remember was the cast-in-head design of the exhaust manifold. Has that proven to be as big a problem as everyone kept thinking, or is the car still too new to really exploit it as a weakness? I also remember there being talks about reliability issues of the motor grenading ala' MS3s. the mountain of torque down low combined with low RPMs supposedly put too much stress on the internals and *pop. There was worries the ST showed the same design characteristics and could suffer the same flaw.
 
sorry if this has all been discussed before, but I haven't been following the thread very closely. I'm hoping to have some nice time in the seat of one at the autoshow in a month, so maybe I will pick one up. Not sure if I'm sold on the front LSD though, but it works for Volkswagen so far...
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:38 AM   #300
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Pedantic.

AP, SCT, and other tuners have been out. So have most aftermarket exhausts, intakes, and motor mounts. Downpipes have been released recently. So essentially Stage 2 ST's should be coming any day now and I'm curious to see some power numbers. So far TQ gains have been pretty phenomenal with only a 93 tune. Ford Racing should release their stuff by Spring.

The turbo is small and will most likely be the limiting factor outside of the car being a piss poor fwd traction losing machine.
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