Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday July 25, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-03-2013, 11:01 AM   #301
Bankie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 37785
Join Date: Jun 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Ohio
Vehicle:
OT hates your car

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Duke View Post
I also remember there being talks about reliability issues of the motor grenading ala' MS3s. the mountain of torque down low combined with low RPMs supposedly put too much stress on the internals and *pop. There was worries the ST showed the same design characteristics and could suffer the same flaw.
The only problems the MS3's had with grenading were due to tuners that had no experience with the engine and a fuel pump that's nearly pushed to it's limits at stock power output.

The early tunes for the ST look promising and I wouldn't be surprised to see 300-400whp examples with bolt-ons running around soon. Ford Racing parts will be sweet but I'm guessing that the cost will make Cobb's prices look cheap.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Bankie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 11:46 AM   #302
GetTheLedOut
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 220305
Join Date: Aug 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rootus View Post
The mere thought of an FXT with enough power to have traction problems in a straight line makes me giggle. It would certainly have it's moments...
I wasn't aware that anyone on NASIOC has driven the FXT with it's 250hp/255lb-ft powerplant. That's the same hp as the ST (less 15lb-ft) and they both weigh approximately the same... ~3200lbs. As I said, tune, tires, and the new FXT will leave a lot of the ST fanboys going in a straight line. Only the FXT doesn't have a 20s timer on its power/torque output like the ST.

By the way, how would the STs numbers look if it had skinny 215s instead of 235s?

From what I hear, the reviews of the CVT "gear box" are great.
GetTheLedOut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 12:24 PM   #303
heavyD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 194216
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Vehicle:
2013 STI Sport-tech

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bankie View Post
The only problems the MS3's had with grenading were due to tuners that had no experience with the engine and a fuel pump that's nearly pushed to it's limits at stock power output.
I don't know about that. I know and have heard people with that engine in Mazdaspeed 6's and CX-7's that grenaded stock. It's never been a particularily reliable engine.
heavyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 01:23 PM   #304
Rootus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 89821
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: A Series Of Toobs
Vehicle:
2015 STI LE

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
I don't know about that. I know and have heard people with that engine in Mazdaspeed 6's and CX-7's that grenaded stock. It's never been a particularily reliable engine.
I can't speak for all of them, but I experienced audible knock on my MS3 with some regularity. Not at high RPM, so it may never have blown up, but not a sound you want to hear when you mash the go pedal. Must have been timing related, because it certainly wasn't running lean . When you can see the black smoke behind you, it may mean you're running a tad rich...

How similar is the new ST engine to the old mill the MS3 has?
Rootus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 02:24 PM   #305
The Duke
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 264877
Join Date: Nov 2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bankie View Post
The only problems the MS3's had with grenading were due to tuners that had no experience with the engine and a fuel pump that's nearly pushed to it's limits at stock power output.

The early tunes for the ST look promising and I wouldn't be surprised to see 300-400whp examples with bolt-ons running around soon. Ford Racing parts will be sweet but I'm guessing that the cost will make Cobb's prices look cheap.
Ah, maybe that's what it was. I know being DI posed some problems, but I didn't realize they had the pump so close to the edge already.

400whp? What's your definition of bolt-ons, everything but headwork/internals? I'm willing to bet 300whp (exhaust/tune. Maybe intake if it's worth it) is going to be the ceiling for the car reliably. Beyond that you're getting into diminishing returns price-for-power, much like our cars beyond a downpipe/protune.

Still, 300whp in a FWD car is too much. You're going to need some sticky tires and some nice pads/rotors for that "diff"

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
I don't know about that. I know and have heard people with that engine in Mazdaspeed 6's and CX-7's that grenaded stock. It's never been a particularily reliable engine.
The weak links from the MS6 were the lack of fresh air to the top-mount (ie, no scoop), turbo seals blowing (not particularly harmful, but more annoying), and the MAFs being trickier then even our cars. (I almost bought on of those too before my STi).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rootus View Post
I can't speak for all of them, but I experienced audible knock on my MS3 with some regularity. Not at high RPM, so it may never have blown up, but not a sound you want to hear when you mash the go pedal. Must have been timing related, because it certainly wasn't running lean . When you can see the black smoke behind you, it may mean you're running a tad rich...

How similar is the new ST engine to the old mill the MS3 has?
You know, I've been wondering that too. The Ecoboost engine is a moniker of Ford, but I'd imagine much of that technology originated from Mazda and the MS6/MS3 motors. I can't say how closely in architecture they are, but I do know that are some significant differences on the externals of the engine. As for the ports/cylinder design I don't know.
The Duke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 02:59 PM   #306
The Duke
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 264877
Join Date: Nov 2010
Default

http://blog.caranddriver.com/ford-ra...012-sema-show/

Sounds like some nice parts to throw on there. Only problem is it'll keep knocking that price up...
The Duke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 03:10 PM   #307
heavyD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 194216
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Vehicle:
2013 STI Sport-tech

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rootus View Post
How similar is the new ST engine to the old mill the MS3 has?
Not very similar to my knowledge although I know that the balance shaft assemblies in both engines is made by Ford.
heavyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 03:58 PM   #308
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: in a minefield of caddishness.
Vehicle:
1984 "Skeletor from
"He-Man"

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bankie View Post
Ford Racing parts will be sweet but I'm guessing that the cost will make Cobb's prices look cheap.
I don't know.. usually Ford Racing stuff is very reasonably priced... sometimes cheaper than the (3rd party) aftermarket stuff.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 04:53 PM   #309
fredzy
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 317270
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Erie, PA
Vehicle:
15 WRX, WRB 6MT
14 CX-5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Duke View Post
http://blog.caranddriver.com/ford-ra...012-sema-show/

Sounds like some nice parts to throw on there. Only problem is it'll keep knocking that price up...
Give me the black wheels on the left for summer and the white wheels for winter BRO

But yea it's always bone-chilling to see price tags on stuff like this. More so with premium brands like BMW or the world champion gougers, Porsche. Should be priced $/carat.
fredzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 04:58 PM   #310
heavyD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 194216
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Vehicle:
2013 STI Sport-tech

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
I don't know.. usually Ford Racing stuff is very reasonably priced... sometimes cheaper than the (3rd party) aftermarket stuff.
Sometimes not so much but sometimes less as Borla makes the Ford Racing exhausts for Mustangs and they usually retail for less than the Borla versions. Some of the Ford Racing parts are rebranded GT500 or Boss 302 parts and it's always nice to have OEM fittiment. I know aftermarket Mustang parts are cheaper in general than aftermarket parts for Japanese cars.
heavyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 05:17 PM   #311
mikaust
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7468
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
2002

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BacDoc View Post
Pedantic.

AP, SCT, and other tuners have been out. So have most aftermarket exhausts, intakes, and motor mounts. Downpipes have been released recently. So essentially Stage 2 ST's should be coming any day now and I'm curious to see some power numbers. So far TQ gains have been pretty phenomenal with only a 93 tune. Ford Racing should release their stuff by Spring.

The turbo is small and will most likely be the limiting factor outside of the car being a piss poor fwd traction losing machine.
Thanks I needed that
mikaust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 05:50 PM   #312
The Duke
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 264877
Join Date: Nov 2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredzy View Post
Give me the black wheels on the left for summer and the white wheels for winter BRO

But yea it's always bone-chilling to see price tags on stuff like this. More so with premium brands like BMW or the world champion gougers, Porsche. Should be priced $/carat.
Yeah, that Stoptech kit (Figure it'd be Brembo with Ford) is nice, but **** it's expensive. I wonder though, is something like a BBK would help reel in some of the wheelspin. apply the same pressure via the master cylinder, but with a larger surface area. Should cut down on spin.
The Duke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 08:35 PM   #313
Bankie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 37785
Join Date: Jun 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Ohio
Vehicle:
OT hates your car

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Duke View Post
400whp? What's your definition of bolt-ons, everything but headwork/internals? I'm willing to bet 300whp (exhaust/tune. Maybe intake if it's worth it) is going to be the ceiling for the car reliably. Beyond that you're getting into diminishing returns price-for-power, much like our cars beyond a downpipe/protune.
400whp is a bit much on the stock turbo. Lots of people out there running 300+whp/350+wtq on stock turbo with the standard bolt-ons (intake, turboback, fuel pump, IC, and a tune). I can't speak for longevity since they've not been doing it that long. There's a couple running around with 500whp with a GTX3071 and internals.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f338/
Bankie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 08:36 PM   #314
Bankie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 37785
Join Date: Jun 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Ohio
Vehicle:
OT hates your car

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
I don't know.. usually Ford Racing stuff is very reasonably priced... sometimes cheaper than the (3rd party) aftermarket stuff.
You're probably right as I have no experience with Ford Racing stuff. I was just going by the typical SPT/Mazdaspeed/TRD stuff that's usually 25 to 100% higher than non-OEM.
Bankie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 11:38 PM   #315
delongedoug
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 124113
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: To infinity
Vehicle:
and beyond!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Duke View Post
Still, 300whp in a FWD car is too much. You're going to need some sticky tires and some nice pads/rotors for that "diff"
This. I haven't driven it yet, but I've seen enough reviews to know adding power to this won't be on my list of things to do. Nor would it be my motorsports car. It would be a fun, nicely appointed, utilitarian daily.
delongedoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 08:02 AM   #316
GetTheLedOut
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 220305
Join Date: Aug 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schweezly View Post
Fair enough. My point was, mainly, that I don't see it being compared to the Focus ST. In the same way that not many people compare a WRX and a V6 Rav4.
You are aware that the Forest XT has a WRX motor, transmission, chassis, and AWD components; that in essence the Forester XT is nothing more than a WRX with a taller roofline?

Therefore it is fair/logical to compare/cross-shop a WRX and Forester. Therefore it is logical to compare a Forester XT to a Focus ST. I'd take a 2014 FXT over the Focus ST anyday as a daily driver. At least the FXT doesn't have a 20s time limit on power & torque, and in the snow or rain the FXT has AWD compared to the STs 1 wheel front drive "sports car" setup. Remember, the ST is heavy, on the order of 3200lbs and more depending on the options you put on it. The FXT weighs about 3200lbs even with sunroof, has paddle shifters to let the drive choose when to shift at what RPM. Just a simple protune and some decent tires and many kids in the STs that mommy and daddy bought are going to be like

That said, I'd consider the ST as daily driver simply because its economical and just fast enough in stock trim to keep up with the V6 Accords and Camrys of the world, and it's 6spd manual.
GetTheLedOut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 08:06 AM   #317
BacDoc
Tone Patrol
 
Member#: 75141
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Default

At least my ST isn't apart of a massive recall.






Yet.
BacDoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 08:41 AM   #318
KC
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 442
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: SE Mass/RI
Vehicle:
2013 Crosstrek XV
00 Honda S2000

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetTheLedOut View Post
You are aware that the Forest XT has a WRX motor, transmission, chassis, and AWD components; that in essence the Forester XT is nothing more than a WRX with a taller roofline?

Therefore it is fair/logical to compare/cross-shop a WRX and Forester. Therefore it is logical to compare a Forester XT to a Focus ST. I'd take a 2014 FXT over the Focus ST anyday as a daily driver. *snip*
You just compared apples to nails. There's is nothing logical in what you just said, at all, when you bring the '14 FXT into the discussion considering...

1) There's no proof that the '14 Forester XT and WRX will be sharing anything because there's a void of info on there being a new WRX.

2) We *do* know the new FXT engine/chassis is different than the older FXTs.

--kC
KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 08:56 AM   #319
schweezly
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 187013
Join Date: Aug 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Buffalo Grove, IL
Vehicle:
2013 ST

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetTheLedOut View Post

You are aware that the Forest XT has a WRX motor, transmission, chassis, and AWD components; that in essence the Forester XT is nothing more than a WRX with a taller roofline?

Therefore it is fair/logical to compare/cross-shop a WRX and Forester. Therefore it is logical to compare a Forester XT to a Focus ST. I'd take a 2014 FXT over the Focus ST anyday as a daily driver. At least the FXT doesn't have a 20s time limit on power & torque, and in the snow or rain the FXT has AWD compared to the STs 1 wheel front drive "sports car" setup. Remember, the ST is heavy, on the order of 3200lbs and more depending on the options you put on it. The FXT weighs about 3200lbs even with sunroof, has paddle shifters to let the drive choose when to shift at what RPM. Just a simple protune and some decent tires and many kids in the STs that mommy and daddy bought are going to be like

That said, I'd consider the ST as daily driver simply because its economical and just fast enough in stock trim to keep up with the V6 Accords and Camrys of the world, and it's 6spd manual.
The ST and Explorer share a motor...are you going to compare those? How about an F150?

Just because they share components doesn't mean that makes them comparable. Sure people will, but the average buyer isn't going to compare a WRX and FXT as they are in different segments.

Comparing an AWD SUV and a hot FWD hatchback is silly. And yes, again, I drove both.

And the WRX and FXT don't share a transmission.
schweezly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 09:27 AM   #320
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

I am convinced that GetTheLedOut is in a postion in life where he must have an SUV and he is trying to justify he is not settling by not getting a hot hatch...

You are settling. Yes the Forester is an IDEAL family car. I may get one next. But have no illusions that it will ever be the drivers car my Golf R is.

Oh and making a big deal out of not getting overboost for more than 20 seconds is just stupid. How often are you on WOT/full boost for more than 20 seconds. Lets not forget, you do not lose all torque, you only drop back to the factor set 250ish ft lbs. So you are hardly without power.

Man, you guys truly like to believe you are race car drivers huh? How many times do I have to tell you, you are just an average joe with average joe driving skills who is about to buy an average car. The big picture is you are not buying a race car and that 20 second overboost limit will NEVER crop up in daily driving.
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 09:32 AM   #321
fredzy
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 317270
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Erie, PA
Vehicle:
15 WRX, WRB 6MT
14 CX-5

Default

Outside of the "protune" for a CVT crossover bit, it seems like everyone picked every statement in that last post apart and I don't need to make an anti-troll post. Thanks.
fredzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 08:52 AM   #322
GetTheLedOut
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 220305
Join Date: Aug 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I am convinced that GetTheLedOut is in a postion in life where he must have an SUV and he is trying to justify he is not settling by not getting a hot hatch...

You are settling. Yes the Forester is an IDEAL family car. I may get one next. But have no illusions that it will ever be the drivers car my Golf R is.

Oh and making a big deal out of not getting overboost for more than 20 seconds is just stupid. How often are you on WOT/full boost for more than 20 seconds. Lets not forget, you do not lose all torque, you only drop back to the factor set 250ish ft lbs. So you are hardly without power.

Man, you guys truly like to believe you are race car drivers huh? How many times do I have to tell you, you are just an average joe with average joe driving skills who is about to buy an average car. The big picture is you are not buying a race car and that 20 second overboost limit will NEVER crop up in daily driving.
Actually I'm contemplating 2 or 3 scenarios: 1) ST as a daily driver and keep the WRX as a fair weather car, 2) Slightly used 370Z as a fair weather car and turn the Rex into a DD, and 3) Sell the DD, make the Rex my all purpose car and buy Bonanza (airplane)

But I don;t get the infatuation with with ST. It's a quick car, and nothing more. An SI is nearly as fast in a straight line and is cheaper and has a helical LSD. A MS3 is faster in a straight and in the twisties. The ST is simply (to me) a cool DD.

Last edited by GetTheLedOut; 01-05-2013 at 11:29 AM.
GetTheLedOut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 09:06 AM   #323
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

THe ST is a great car because of the amount of fun you can have for the money. If you load it up with every option imaginable it will come in less than a loaded WRX while giving you much more interior refinement, and technology. The only thing missing would be AWD and truthfully to most people that does not matter one bit.

Not sure I understand your post about the STI nearly as fast. It is faster, but a loaded STI costs 10k more than the ST, and your still stuck with a car that looks 10 years old on the inside. I have not seen a comparison between the MS3 and ST, but I would bet it would be super close in both a straight line and 'in da twisties'. Plus the Ford Looks 100% better on the inside and out side (in my humble opinion).

All your options sound like good ones. Good luck with whatever you choose.
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 10:00 AM   #324
schweezly
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 187013
Join Date: Aug 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Buffalo Grove, IL
Vehicle:
2013 ST

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetTheLedOut View Post

Actually I'm contemplating 2 or 3 scenarios: 1) ST as a daily driver and keep the WRX as a fair weather car, 2) Slightly used 370Z as a fair weather car and turn the Rex into a DD, and 3) Sell the DD, make the Rex my all purpose car and buy Bonanza (airplane)

But I don;t get the infatuation with with ST. It's a quick car, and nothing more. An STI is nearly as fast in a straight line and is cheaper and has a helical LSD. A MS3 is faster in a straight and in the twisties. The ST is simply (to me) a cool DD.
Are you sure were talking about the same car? An STI should be faster and is about $10k more.

Either way it sounds like you've got good options.

Last edited by schweezly; 01-05-2013 at 10:09 AM.
schweezly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 12:33 AM   #325
Blitzkrieg
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 14913
Join Date: Feb 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Vehicle:
2003 Lock Stock and
2 Smoking Barrels "wrx"

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
No, that is not what the article said. You claimed to have read it?

They ran hot laps with all cars over the course of 2 days, with the same drivers. They ran hot laps day 1 in the ST, but didn't get a chance to run a hot lap day 2 with the ST.

The drivers were the same on day 1 and day 2, and while the majority of cars set a faster day 2 time compared to their day 1 time, not all of them did.

They noted the slow lap time on the hotlaps they did run had much to do with the car cutting boost.

I figured I would at least copy the article word for word and allow everyone to make their own conclusion and just not my words for it.

Quote:
This car should be quicker. What held back the Focus ST, ultimately, was not any performance or design limitation, but a key less ignition system that allowed one of us to drive off with the key left on the roof. The fob fell off and ended its life in several small pieces, so the St missed the second day of lapping when we often log the quickest lap times. The perpetrator has been....
(my camera phone sucks so I'm going to just spew mindless antics that prove i didn't read the article) So basically they said he was sent off to drive a Taurus that had a window broken... They mentioned that the Electronic LSD went had issues on the track and ended up spinning the inside tire after a while and they thought the car would do better with a real LSD. The talked about how the car only has 20 seconds of peek boost and that it spent... (this is where i can read from my phone).

Quote:
Most of the time with lower mid range power that results in slower acceleration than its peak output. ratings suggest. Taken all together, we believe the ST's ultimate potential is at least a few seconds quicker, Maybe next year...
Blitzkrieg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.