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Old 01-04-2013, 02:39 PM   #51
dustin213
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Originally Posted by kakarot09 View Post
What are you talking about with the rods breaking before they should? Can you provide some references? Have you actually tested the material? What exactly makes you say it is brittle. I've seen very good results from the few people I've seen actually use their rods, in other words they didn't break. I've also seen good results from their valve springs. No valve float, no broken springs etc. I'm not saying they're perfect but I think people get all crazy about the company because they're cheaper than the competition. I would MUCH rather run a BC I beam than a Manley h beam and those things sell like crazy in comparison.
This is Dustin from BC. If anyone has any questions or concerns with the BC line of products please feel free to contact me direct @ 619-749-9018 or email me at dustin@briancrower.com
We have used the I beam rod is some very high HP builds through the years without any issues. Manley also makes a high quality rod as well as they used to make our rods when we were getting the rod shop started. i have not used the 3MI rod but from what i hear it is a very nice piece as well. You can use any of the rods listed and you won't have any issues.
On our valve train products we use the same cam core as GSC, CROWER and JWT and our springs are wound in michigan by PAC racing who also make them for COMP, KIGGLEY and GSC.
We stand behind our products 100% and if anyone ever has an issue please contact me direct.
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:41 PM   #52
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Well said ^.
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:57 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by KurtP View Post
For reference you have one guy on the first page of this thread that broke a BC rod on a 20g. Other instances can be found through the years by searching back if you are interested. There may be times were BC hits the mark on a particular item. Valve springs seem to be one of them. Their cams are usually another example of failure more often than not, as they usually lose every shoot out they are put in.

That said, if their stuff works for you, then my opinion based on what Ive seen through the years doesn't matter, and you are free to rock on. I don't run their stuff. :shrug:
I saw the one person who broke a rod on this page, however I have no idea any relevant data to put it in perspective either. Was it a Subaru? Piston weight? Rpm? Was it hydro locked? Detonation evidence? I've seen failed Pauters, failed oem rods failed Manley h beams and the only one I see under attack is BC. The h beams fail sometimes at high enough torque/power. So do oem's. the Pauters seem to not like really high rpm's. that's what I've seen based on data that people provided about the failures. Other people are scattered around that never say any details and that is not helpful to anyone.

Any evidence to support the brittle comment? I quoted the revised message you put and not the first one you put that said the rods were high in sulfur and not "likely due to high sulfur" but I saw it. Also you're saying Chinese steel while the BC representative says its American. I would tend to believe the person that works there.
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:59 PM   #54
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Well said ^.
+1...
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:05 PM   #55
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I saw the one person who broke a rod on this page, however I have no idea any relevant data to put it in perspective either. Was it a Subaru? Piston weight? Rpm? Was it hydro locked? Detonation evidence? I've seen failed Pauters, failed oem rods failed Manley h beams and the only one I see under attack is BC. The h beams fail sometimes at high enough torque/power. So do oem's. the Pauters seem to not like really high rpm's. that's what I've seen based on data that people provided about the failures. Other people are scattered around that never say any details and that is not helpful to anyone.

Any evidence to support the brittle comment? I quoted the revised message you put and not the first one you put that said the rods were high in sulfur and not "likely due to high sulfur" but I saw it. Also you're saying Chinese steel while the BC representative says its American. I would tend to believe the person that works there.
In the high performance world engines are pushed to the limits and failures can occur with any product. If any one EVER has an issue with the BC products we stand behind our products 100%. even if somehting happens on an install or anything for that matter our #1 goal is getting the customer back on the road. We pride oursleves on making a high quality product at a decent price and having excellent customer service. If anyone ever needs to contact me my direct line is 619-749-9018 or my email is dustin@briancrower.com
There is so much misinformation on the forums these days it's crazy.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:26 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustin213 View Post

In the high performance world engines are pushed to the limits and failures can occur with any product. If any one EVER has an issue with the BC products we stand behind our products 100%. even if somehting happens on an install or anything for that matter our #1 goal is getting the customer back on the road. We pride oursleves on making a high quality product at a decent price and having excellent customer service. If anyone ever needs to contact me my direct line is 619-749-9018 or my email is dustin@briancrower.com
There is so much misinformation on the forums these days it's crazy.
+1 to that so much misinformation without proof! I'll b putting the I beams in the shortblock I'm building now and will post real world results!
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:31 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustin213 View Post
In the high performance world engines are pushed to the limits and failures can occur with any product. If any one EVER has an issue with the BC products we stand behind our products 100%. even if somehting happens on an install or anything for that matter our #1 goal is getting the customer back on the road. We pride oursleves on making a high quality product at a decent price and having excellent customer service. If anyone ever needs to contact me my direct line is 619-749-9018 or my email is dustin@briancrower.com
There is so much misinformation on the forums these days it's crazy.
I've found that forums, especially NASIOC, are filled with "bandwagon information". People that have never had an experience with the product but will go by what else they heard, or what everyone is saying.

On a note of the rods, I think I'll be giving you a call. Great customer service will sway my position on two comparable parts in a heartbeat.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:42 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by KurtP View Post
For reference you have one guy on the first page of this thread that broke a BC rod on a 20g. Other instances can be found through the years by searching back if you are interested.
No, there is not. I searched EXTENSIVELY before buying their rods, and I found no failure stories. I assumed it was due to the fact that there are less of their rods out there, as well as the fact that they are a quality American made rod. But please...correct me if I am wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02rex62 View Post
+1 to that so much misinformation without proof!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dustin213 View Post
There is so much misinformation on the forums these days it's crazy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckyguy68 View Post
I've found that forums, especially NASIOC, are filled with "bandwagon information". People that have never had an experience with the product but will go by what else they heard, or what everyone is saying.
You guys said it for me...again. It happens to many of us though. I am constantly stopping myself from regurgitating something I heard.

I am particularly interested in the data he has on their metallurgy.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:52 PM   #59
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I have to apologize to BC. their stuff isnt made in china anymore and I was evidently being the times on the change.

as far as the metallurgical test that was done I would gladly post it for you if I had rights to it, but I dont and it was pulled down off of here a long time ago iirc. it was a test done on one of their parts for a specific purpose under specific conditions following a break. based on seeing the part my assumption was that it was brittle consistent with high sulfur content and the test confirmed it. that said, if you dont know that using chinese steel will frequently result in productions runs of too high sulfur content, the effect of sulfur on steel, or how a break in steel looks because its too brittle then the results from the test itself would probably look like chinese to you anyway.

thats moot at this point because their stuff isnt made there anymore.

again, I apologize to BC for the error and thank dustin for reaching out to me. he was extremely professional and accomodating in representing his company and even offered to send me a part to quality test and see the difference for myself. my opinion of BC did a 180 with that.

sent from Galaxy Note 2 with spelling errors
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:35 PM   #60
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Awesome. Even better if the company has simply improved and that was a past issue. Seems everyone always wants to make stuff in China and a move to make stuff in the US is always nice.
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:44 PM   #61
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BC makes a quality rod, I have used their h beams with upgraded rod bolts and their I beams.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:15 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by KurtP View Post

sent from Galaxy Note 2 with spelling errors
I wish I knew how to change my phones message hah!!

I was referring more to the "Chinese steel" part but the point is moot now. You are way nice for this NASIOC arguing thing lol
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:22 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustin213 View Post
This is Dustin from BC. If anyone has any questions or concerns with the BC line of products please feel free to contact me direct @ 619-749-9018 or email me at dustin@briancrower.com
We have used the I beam rod is some very high HP builds through the years without any issues. Manley also makes a high quality rod as well as they used to make our rods when we were getting the rod shop started. i have not used the 3MI rod but from what i hear it is a very nice piece as well. You can use any of the rods listed and you won't have any issues.
On our valve train products we use the same cam core as GSC, CROWER and JWT and our springs are wound in michigan by PAC racing who also make them for COMP, KIGGLEY and GSC.
We stand behind our products 100% and if anyone ever has an issue please contact me direct.
Thank you for sharing Dustin. TIC and my biggest competition on track, GST Motorsports, runs BC I-beams. I know that Mike has been quite happy with them...I'm trying to think of where I had talked about this recently

Quote:
Originally Posted by dustin213 View Post
In the high performance world engines are pushed to the limits and failures can occur with any product. If any one EVER has an issue with the BC products we stand behind our products 100%. even if somehting happens on an install or anything for that matter our #1 goal is getting the customer back on the road. We pride oursleves on making a high quality product at a decent price and having excellent customer service. If anyone ever needs to contact me my direct line is 619-749-9018 or my email is dustin@briancrower.com
There is so much misinformation on the forums these days it's crazy.
Having run BC in the past, I can say that Dustin has always been there to help in a pinch. I actually need to call him about some cams that a customer has on his drag set up....and some springs

-Micah
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:15 AM   #64
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There is so much misinformation on the forums these days it's crazy.
"these days?"

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Old 01-07-2013, 08:06 PM   #65
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:24 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
Thank you for sharing Dustin. TIC and my biggest competition on track, GST Motorsports, runs BC I-beams. I know that Mike has been quite happy with them...I'm trying to think of where I had talked about this recently
Right here
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2397325


Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
Having run BC in the past, I can say that Dustin has always been there to help in a pinch. I actually need to call him about some cams that a customer has on his drag set up....and some springs

-Micah
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Originally Posted by aboothman View Post
So aside from "looking" cheaper, does anyone have any experience with the BC rods?
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Not since they were obviously Crowers and came in the black Crower boxes circa 2006 and Brian answered the phone.
Micah sometimes I worry about your memory lol.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:59 AM   #67
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On an engine where you're not going silly on the boost Crower I-Beams are just fine. They're certainly LOTs better than cheapish H-Beams. However as many said earlier the Manley TT I-Beam is certainly a lot beefier than the Crower but not necessarily a necessity. If your engine is higher revs, lower boost then Crower is nice. If your engine is lower revs, higher boost than beefier CAN be better.....

Having said that whilst Manley TT I-Beams are beefy they aren't quite as beefy as the PAR I-Beams I had in my hand once Those weighed somewhere around 700 gr. and must have been the chunkiest rods I've seen so far. TRP used to use them before but I've always been put off by the fact that you need to hone the bigends exactly to your desired clearances which isn't very user friendly. Small end bore size/quality also hasn't always been great hence I stopped using them.

So far Manley TT I-Beams have been holding up very well. I've also used them on our shop EVO running a custom piston setup with longer rods (156mm vs. 150mm) on a 94mm stroke crank and puts out over 700 BHP at the wheels UNcorrected with around 750 lb/ft of TQ and has been revved to 9500 rpm despite the weight of the rods it wasn't any issue.

I am however VERY tempted to try some 3MI rods to see how those work as well as finish/quality, etc.

Cheers,

Jasper Kopinga
CS Racing
Taiwan.

Last edited by jkopinga; 01-08-2013 at 04:49 AM.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:56 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by jkopinga View Post
On an engine where you're not going silly on the boost Crower I-Beams are just fine. They're certainly LOTs better than cheapish H-Beams. However as many said earlier the Manley TT I-Beam is certainly a lot beefier than the Crower but not necessarily a necessity. If your engine is higher revs, lower boost then Crower is nice. If your engine is lower revs, higher boost than beefier CAN be better.....

Having said that whilst Manley TT I-Beams are beefy they aren't quite as beefy as the PAR I-Beams I had in my hand once Those weighed somewhere around 700 gr. and must have been the chunkiest rods I've seen so far. TRP used to use them before but I've always been put off by the fact that you need to hone the bigends exactly to your desired clearances which isn't very user friendly. Small end bore size/quality also hasn't always been great hence I stopped using them.

So far Manley TT I-Beams have been holding up very well. I've also used them on our shop EVO running a custom piston setup with longer rods (156mm vs. 150mm) on a 94mm stroke crank and puts out over 700 BHP at the wheels UNcorrected with around 750 lb/ft of TQ and has been revved to 9500 rpm despite the weight of the rods it wasn't any issue.

I am however VERY tempted to try some 3MI rods to see how those work as well as finish/quality, etc.

Cheers,

Jasper Kopinga
CS Racing
Taiwan.
Ever had any problems performance wise from any of those? Like broken or bent rods? I contacted PAR just to get a quote. They quoted me on their middle of the line rod okay for 8k rpm and approximately 600hp. For the price of those I would pick something else.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:49 AM   #69
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On an engine where you're not going silly on the boost Crower I-Beams are just fine. They're certainly LOTs better than cheapish H-Beams. However as many said earlier the Manley TT I-Beam is certainly a lot beefier than the Crower but not necessarily a necessity. If your engine is higher revs, lower boost then Crower is nice. If your engine is lower revs, higher boost than beefier CAN be better.....

Having said that whilst Manley TT I-Beams are beefy they aren't quite as beefy as the PAR I-Beams I had in my hand once Those weighed somewhere around 700 gr. and must have been the chunkiest rods I've seen so far. TRP used to use them before but I've always been put off by the fact that you need to hone the bigends exactly to your desired clearances which isn't very user friendly. Small end bore size/quality also hasn't always been great hence I stopped using them.

So far Manley TT I-Beams have been holding up very well. I've also used them on our shop EVO running a custom piston setup with longer rods (156mm vs. 150mm) on a 94mm stroke crank and puts out over 700 BHP at the wheels UNcorrected with around 750 lb/ft of TQ and has been revved to 9500 rpm despite the weight of the rods it wasn't any issue.

I am however VERY tempted to try some 3MI rods to see how those work as well as finish/quality, etc.

Cheers,

Jasper Kopinga
CS Racing
Taiwan.

Manley makes a very nice rod and Micah from PMI has been in the business long enough and has a very good reputation so i'm 100% the 3MI rod is designed for abuse as well. We use the BC rod in some very high HP builds as well. Competition is good for everyone as all of the rods mentioned here are more than enough rod for the application.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:59 PM   #70
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We shall see if my turbo tuffs like the 95 pound turbo and 8k.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:13 PM   #71
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Micah sometimes I worry about your memory lol.
me too

Really it's between this account, my 3MI Racing account, multiple forums, my email accounts and then facebook...I can never recall where I had said something!!

I need to narrow my points of contact Guess I need to retire Homemade WRX.

Oh yeah and then phone calls and texted conversations with customers.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:14 PM   #72
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:0 end of an era!
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