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Old 01-04-2013, 06:41 PM   #76
Indocti Discant
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hint. its not the materials inside that make the interior of a corvette crappy. its the design.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:41 PM   #77
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Lets see here, a base c6 cost 45-50 k? c6 z06 60-80k. Same crap plastic thats in their truck. Mono leaf suspension=outdated no matter the "refinement" Most performance orientated cars use a coilover spring with double a arms. You can buy a kit to fix this on the vette.

4wdwrx "There is no car that beats the Corvette's performance"
I ****ing loled at this ****. For 80k I could have a 600+whp 09 gtr that would eat a vette or cramaro and **** it out in the shape of a panda.

The cramaro spelling is intentional. Have you rode in one or driven one. You cant see **** out of the back and the short side windows are not that great either. Same truck abs plastic. My ****ing mazda2 has a higher quality plastic. 35k for a "loaded" v6 cramaro?? **** that. The mustang v6 runs circles around that and doesnt feel like your ****ing a fat chick + its cheaper with better plastics (not by much though). They make look good in a brouchue but the feel of the interior makes me feel like I just got ****ed in the ass with the roll of cash I paid for the car with (barf)

The c7z has what looks like the same cramaro tail lights, theres a couple other chevys that have the same exact style also. So porsche price, just a hair less as a gtr but only has very similar performance and a interior design and feel like someone smeered dog **** all over it...but diehard chevy guys wont care because a prodriver was faster by fractions of a second in it than a couple import cars that have a refined interior at a slightly higher cost.

Its not like Im saying put suede on the dash. Im saying theres about a ****ing million and one different types of plastic out there and GM asks, "whats the cheapest **** ya got, Im trying to keep afloat because I make 1million too many trucks in 12 models too many and take a butt rapping at the end of the year clearancing them off, so Im skimping out and putting the same bargin basement crap in everything from the cruz to the flagship vettte."

Really, in the c6 regular vette they have carbon "print" dash pieces...40k..they couldnt get a overlay? Im sure they have a upcharge for that **** too. Remember the 02 wrx factory option "carbon look" dash? That car cost 24k new and youd expect that same garbage in a 40k car?

Like I said before, pretty decent engine "even with push rods" with a plastic turd ontop.

Dont get me wrong, Id take a c6 z06 in sonic blue with their "ultimate z06" package. But the whole interior would go to coachworks.

Last edited by scby rex; 01-05-2013 at 01:00 AM.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:09 PM   #78
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Lets see here, a base c6 cost 45-50 k? c6 z06 60-80k. Same crap plastic thats in their truck. Mono leaf suspension=outdated no matter the "refinement" Most performance orientated cars use a coilover spring with double a arms. You can buy a kit to fix this on the vette.

4wdwrx "There is no car that beats the Corvette's performance"
I ****ing loled at this ****. For 80k I could have a 600+whp 09 gtr that would eat a vette or cramaro and **** it out in the shape of a panda.

The cramaro spelling is intentional. Have you rode in one or driven one. You cant see **** out of the back and the short side windows are not that great either. Same truck abs plastic. My ****ing mazda2 has a higher quality plastic. 35k for a "loaded" v6 cramaro?? **** that. The mustang v6 runs circles around that and doesnt feel like your ****ing a fat chick + its cheaper with better plastics (not by much though). They make look good in a brouchue but the feel of the interior makes me feel like I just got ****ed in the ass with the roll of cash I paid for the car with (barf)

The c7z has what looks like the same cramaro tail lights and theres a couple other chevys that have the same exact style also. So porsche price, just a hair less as a gtr but only has very similar performance and a interior design and feel like someone smeered dog **** all over it...but diehard chevy guys wont car because a prodriver was faster by fractions of a second in it than a couple import cars that have a refined interior at a slightly higher cost.

Its not like Im saying put seude on the dash. Im saying theres about a ****ing million and one different types of plastic out there and GM asks, "whats the cheapest **** ya got, Im trying to keep afloat because I make 1million too many trucks in 12 modles too many and take a butt rapping at the end of the year clearancing them off, so Im skimping out and putting the same bargin basement crap in everything from the cruz to the flagship vettte."

Really, in the c6 regular vette they have carbon "print" dash pieces...40k..they couldnt get a overlay? Im sure they have a upcharge for that **** too. Remember the 02 wrx factory option "carbon look" dash? That car cost 24k new and youd expect that same garbage in a 40k car?

Like I said before, pretty decent engine "even with push rods" with a plastic turd ontop.

Dont get me wrong, Id take a c6 z06 in sonic blue with their "ultimate z06" package. But the whole interior would go to coachworks.
****, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:13 PM   #79
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So the more modern GTR always outperforms the leaf spring, cheap interior, C6Z06? Hmmm...pretty much all race results from either stock or slightly modified road race class says otherwise. No, there is no penalty given for AWD and the PW/WT ratios are the same for both.

The GTR is a phenomenal grand tourer, but the Z06 really shines at speed, and especially on track.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:00 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by scby rex View Post
Lets see here, a base c6 cost 45-50 k? c6 z06 60-80k. Same crap plastic thats in their truck. Mono leaf suspension=outdated no matter the "refinement" Most performance orientated cars use a coilover spring with double a arms. You can buy a kit to fix this on the vette.

4wdwrx "There is no car that beats the Corvette's performance"
I ****ing loled at this ****. For 80k I could have a 600+whp 09 gtr that would eat a vette or cramaro and **** it out in the shape of a panda.

The cramaro spelling is intentional. Have you rode in one or driven one. You cant see **** out of the back and the short side windows are not that great either. Same truck abs plastic. My ****ing mazda2 has a higher quality plastic. 35k for a "loaded" v6 cramaro?? **** that. The mustang v6 runs circles around that and doesnt feel like your ****ing a fat chick + its cheaper with better plastics (not by much though). They make look good in a brouchue but the feel of the interior makes me feel like I just got ****ed in the ass with the roll of cash I paid for the car with (barf)

The c7z has what looks like the same cramaro tail lights and theres a couple other chevys that have the same exact style also. So porsche price, just a hair less as a gtr but only has very similar performance and a interior design and feel like someone smeered dog **** all over it...but diehard chevy guys wont car because a prodriver was faster by fractions of a second in it than a couple import cars that have a refined interior at a slightly higher cost.

Its not like Im saying put seude on the dash. Im saying theres about a ****ing million and one different types of plastic out there and GM asks, "whats the cheapest **** ya got, Im trying to keep afloat because I make 1million too many trucks in 12 modles too many and take a butt rapping at the end of the year clearancing them off, so Im skimping out and putting the same bargin basement crap in everything from the cruz to the flagship vettte."

Really, in the c6 regular vette they have carbon "print" dash pieces...40k..they couldnt get a overlay? Im sure they have a upcharge for that **** too. Remember the 02 wrx factory option "carbon look" dash? That car cost 24k new and youd expect that same garbage in a 40k car?

Like I said before, pretty decent engine "even with push rods" with a plastic turd ontop.

Dont get me wrong, Id take a c6 z06 in sonic blue with their "ultimate z06" package. But the whole interior would go to coachworks.
I'm glad you did not LOL for real, because it would have been embarrassing.

600hp 09 GTR in comparison with a New Z06? I'll let you take that back.

$24k 02 WRX vs $40k Corvette comparison is poor comparison and logic. But you did pick two performance with poor interiors, which I shall explain the differences...

A $40k Corvette has much more performance than a 24k WRX, how would they be able add a high end interior and all that performance for 40k. An entry level BMW 328 cost more than 40k and includes a nice interior, but.... of much lower performance than the Vette.

A $40k WRX (not STi performance) would be a very nicely built WRX --or the Audi S3.

Bottom line is, the Corvette has performance like no other in the price range. The BMW M3 is $80k with less performance than the Z06, but because the high price allowed for BMW's luxury features to be included.

Just to compare with European sport cars with nice interiors, they are always of much higher cost.

Therefore in conclusion, Chevy would have to charge $80k+ for the standard Vette, $110k+ for a standard Z06, maybe $200k for ZR1 to put in expensive interiors, the latest cutting edge technologies, and such. The Corvette is a great performance bargain.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:53 AM   #81
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Im not saying put baby leapord seal hides and bald eagle beaks in the corvette interior, but for **** sake, just that my 13k$ mazda2 has a better quality plastic.

and yes, you or I could go buy a 09 gtr and add the parts to be reliable at 600 whp and stay under the price of a c6z06 and walk all over that ****. seriously, do you **** bowties or what ?
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:49 AM   #82
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Im not saying put baby leapord seal hides and bald eagle beaks in the corvette interior, but for **** sake, just that my 13k$ mazda2 has a better quality plastic.

and yes, you or I could go buy a 09 gtr and add the parts to be reliable at 600 whp and stay under the price of a c6z06 and walk all over that ****. seriously, do you **** bowties or what ?
Or I could also buy a $1000 dollar 1st Gen Miata and put the remaining $79K in mods and outrun your GT-R and a Space Shuttle. Why build a 2009 GT-R to 600hp to beat a new C6 Z06, when you could buy a 2006 C6 for $40K and spend $40K boosting the everloving goat cheese out of it and annihilate both? That's why comparing new cars to used cars with mods is retarded. It's ricer math.

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Old 01-05-2013, 02:08 AM   #83
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it would still be a hair dresser miata.

I was comparing the same year model cars. And really just razing 4wdwrx./
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:30 AM   #84
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I was comparing the same year model cars. And really just razing 4wdwrx./
You were comparing a 2009 GT-R with mods to a new Z06.

And 4wdwrx is right. The Corvette is the number one price/performance machine. Nobody is saying it's interior is fantastic, everyone has acknowledged that it isn't. For the C7, GM is aware of that and will make improvements (hell, they already started by leather-wrapping the dash on the updated C6's). Let's wait and see how it turns out instead of coming into a perfectly good thread and spewing ignorant fanboy domestic-hate vitriol for no reason. I've seen some of your other posts, you're a knowledgable guy.

I still find it ridiculously ironic that WRX/STI owners who bought a car with a crappy interior because it performs like a sports car, claim not to understand why someone would buy a car with a crappy interior that performs like an exotic/supercar.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:50 AM   #85
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Like I said, I would still own a c6z06. Great car..but come on GM I hope to god the new version has a interior worth a damn and makes owners say, WOW holy **** they got it right and stayed in their buyers price range.

I bought my wrx to be a daily...with full intentions of changing it into a track whore. No denying it.

The sad thing, if you see it that way, there really are no "domestics" anymore. The most domestic vehicle your going to find is the toyota tundra, but thats another thread.


As for the c7, thank god all those drawings of the rear split window are dead, like GM needs to concept that every model change. Im also not a fan of the rear quarter window and narrow rear glass. Not like your going to look out that side window anyway.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:18 AM   #86
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I am still not sold a nice interior will drive up costs that much. Lets say the base car costs 45000 dollars. Now, this is a complete car. Lets say we all agree that the suspension, boat anchor pushrod engine (had to get that in their, lol), and exterior are fine the way they are and all we have to change are seats, steering wheel, and dash.

Having said that, we have already spent the money on the existing seats, steering wheel, and dash. So out of the 45000, lets say the seats, steering wheel and dash account for 5000 dollars, I doubt it, but lets go with that math. So the only increase would be the DELTA cost between the old stuff and the new stuff. I would bet you could get a hell of a big improvement for 2500 dollars more. Especially if you left the design alone and just improved the tech, and material quality.

So in a nutshell, you could drastically alter the cabin of the Vette without making the base vette jump from 45k to 80k.

There I am done, make me CEO of GM and I will make it so..

LOLOLOL
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:32 PM   #87
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You are correct, theoretically...

True, you can upholster the interior for a good price from a custom car shop.

Remember, this is factory OEM we talking about here --additional engineering, R&D, marketing they will factor in.

Just look at options for cars --over $100 for a replacement key, $3000 for Nav. The racing stripes option for the Viper is $5k and the better interior package (GTS) is $20k more (of coarse with other gadgets).

The MSRP of the current base corvette is $50k, maybe not quite $80k, but $70k is not far-fetched.

The new Corvette will have a nicer interior, but not current 911 quality, probably 996 quality. For that value, they would always have to compromise.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:31 PM   #88
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you are talking about what they can charge for it, not what it actually costs.

Those racing stripes do not cost 5000 dollars. But they can charge for them. The nav system does not cost anywhere near 3000 dollars, but they can charge that much for it.

adding options to make more profit is not what I am talking about. I am talking about adding more options to make the car competitive against the interiors of the competition.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:43 PM   #89
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well they could save alot of cash to put towards the quality of materials if they ditched the nightrider indiglow blue heads up display. Really, do you need a HUD 1inch above the 6inch tach and speedo?
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:40 PM   #90
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well they could save alot of cash to put towards the quality of materials if they ditched the nightrider indiglow blue heads up display. Really, do you need a HUD 1inch above the 6inch tach and speedo?
But I'm sure they do a lot of market research, and they probably found out that a typical Vette buyer would prefer the HUD over nicer interior material. The opposite is probably true for a typical 911 buyer. Different markets, different products.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:13 PM   #91
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you are talking about what they can charge for it, not what it actually costs.

Those racing stripes do not cost 5000 dollars. But they can charge for them. The nav system does not cost anywhere near 3000 dollars, but they can charge that much for it.

adding options to make more profit is not what I am talking about. I am talking about adding more options to make the car competitive against the interiors of the competition.
I'm not understanding you completely. I don't think anyone will charge for a product at cost. That would be super good deal, probably cost Chevy only $20k to build each Corvette.

The primary focus of Chevrolet (as with any company) is to make profit, not to fulfill dreams. That is why there are exotic cars that can fulfill dreams with a good fortune.

Chevy is without doubt capable of making interiors like an Audi or Porsche, but they can't charge that kind of money due to the brand target and demographics.

I believe any efficient lean car manufacturer will have very similar production cost if they all built the same quality car --it all comes down to their business model and strategy.

No way is Chevy going to produce a 911-like quality Corvette, because they would have to charge 911-like prices and Chevy knows there is no way they can sell a Corvette that is of same price as a 911.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:59 AM   #92
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I really, really, really hate the C7 at this point.

C6LS3 & C5 are the BEST bang for the buck. Hands down.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:23 AM   #93
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I'm not understanding you completely. I don't think anyone will charge for a product at cost. That would be super good deal, probably cost Chevy only $20k to build each Corvette.

The primary focus of Chevrolet (as with any company) is to make profit, not to fulfill dreams. That is why there are exotic cars that can fulfill dreams with a good fortune.

Chevy is without doubt capable of making interiors like an Audi or Porsche, but they can't charge that kind of money due to the brand target and demographics.

I believe any efficient lean car manufacturer will have very similar production cost if they all built the same quality car --it all comes down to their business model and strategy.

No way is Chevy going to produce a 911-like quality Corvette, because they would have to charge 911-like prices and Chevy knows there is no way they can sell a Corvette that is of same price as a 911.
You know what, I absolutely doubt Chevy could make interiors or overall vehicles with the quality of Audi or Porsche. Nothing I have seen from them suggests otherwise.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:07 PM   #94
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You know what, I absolutely doubt Chevy could make interiors or overall vehicles with the quality of Audi or Porsche. Nothing I have seen from them suggests otherwise.
How so? There is a difference between capability versus what they can manage.

You really think Audi or Porsche can make those interiors without hiring good interior designers. How is Chevy not capable of producing high quality interiors if their funding allowed for hiring high profile interior designers.

Think about it.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:58 AM   #95
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How so? There is a difference between capability versus what they can manage.

You really think Audi or Porsche can make those interiors without hiring good interior designers. How is Chevy not capable of producing high quality interiors if their funding allowed for hiring high profile interior designers.

Think about it.
I get it, but that is just essentially making a broad statement that anyone can do anything, if they really wanted to, in a perfect world, if they just did it.....That is like saying that I could be an astronaut if I wanted to. Sure, I might be able to some day, in a perfect world, but as it stands today, there is no reality of me being able to do that or history to support I would/could......

So that stuff doesn't really work, imo, because Chevy does not hire this person or that person, Chevy doesn't put the time, energy, or money into certain aspects of vehicles, Chevy doesn't have the internal motivation to make certain elements of vehicles a priority, Chevy does not have a brand identity or history of making great quality cars or interiors..........so I do not see them as capable of making interiors or vehicles at the same level of quality as Audi or Porsche.
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:28 PM   #96
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If they could have already produced German quality interiors wouldn't they with Cadillac? Wasn't Cadillac once the industry leader in technology and luxury? They definitely aren't now.

Producing an interior at the level of Audi, Porsche, or BMW isn't as simple as just hiring a designer. The most difficult part is sourcing/ mass-producing the parts and assembling them with more precision than GM has shown they are capable of for quite some time.
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:50 PM   #97
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You know what, I absolutely doubt Chevy could make interiors or overall vehicles with the quality of Audi or Porsche. Nothing I have seen from them suggests otherwise.
Are you kidding me? GM is an engineering powerhouse. The technology and engineering they experiment with is amazing. The problem is they show off bits and pieces of it far in advance, then another company breaks into the market 6 years later with something similiar and GM has to play catch-up for the next decade. When they don't have upper-management to squander their creativity, GM can build marvelous vehicles. When it comes to production, they constantly shoot themselves in the foot. It makes my head hurt.

My friend and I have a saying: "It Got GM'd". Fantastic ideas/thinking, but the outcome is just terrible and completely misses the point of the original.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:34 PM   #98
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I get it, but that is just essentially making a broad statement that anyone can do anything, if they really wanted to, in a perfect world, if they just did it.....That is like saying that I could be an astronaut if I wanted to. Sure, I might be able to some day, in a perfect world, but as it stands today, there is no reality of me being able to do that or history to support I would/could......

So that stuff doesn't really work, imo, because Chevy does not hire this person or that person, Chevy doesn't put the time, energy, or money into certain aspects of vehicles, Chevy doesn't have the internal motivation to make certain elements of vehicles a priority, Chevy does not have a brand identity or history of making great quality cars or interiors..........so I do not see them as capable of making interiors or vehicles at the same level of quality as Audi or Porsche.
Exactly, some people here expect a Chevy "R8" for $50k.

Don't talk down on Chevy though, the Cadillac ATS caught up to the 3 series big time.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:49 AM   #99
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GM has some very talented engineers with some fantastic ideas. Unfortunately it comes down to upper management putting a target on the vehicle cost and a lot of the nice features cost more and when the estimated production cost comes in over budget things get axed.

This isn't just interiors. There are a lot of products the GM suspension engineers would like to outfit with the fancy MagnetoRheological shocks they use on the Corvette and Caddy's, but when costs need to be cut that's one of the first things to go. I'm sure the driveline teams want to use fancy active differentials and torque vectoring, but when cost limitations are applied a lot of desired technologies get axed. NVH performance could be improved in a lot of vehicles if someone would approve a more expensive active engine mount instead of a basic rubber puck. But spending $10/part vs. $40/part counts for a lot over 400k vehicles.

Porsche, BMW, Audi, Mercedes all have a history and reputation for luxury. GM (outside of Cadillac) has always been a more mainstream, budget-minded, "normal people" brand. While we all want the fancy features in the BMW we can't afford them. This is why we buy a Ford or a Chevy. They still get us from point A to point B, and they do it well, but they don't have a nice an interior. But then they cost 30-50% less.



It really isn't a question of talent. It's a question of funding and approval. It doesn't matter what the designers think and draw up. If management doesn't see it fitting with the corporate direction it gets dismissed and they go back to the drawing board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4wdwrx View Post
Exactly, some people here expect a Chevy "R8" for $50k.

Don't talk down on Chevy though, the Cadillac ATS caught up to the 3 series big time.
I would say the ATS surpassed the 3 series in appearance. BMW has gotten fugly in recent years. Interior and performance are still up for debate, but I'd much rather look at an ATS than any of BMW's products currently. They've gone downhill since the E46.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:35 AM   #100
skywaffles
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Jalopnik has production C7 pictures up:
http://jalopnik.com/5975352/the-2014...tte-this-is-it

(I don't know if we're still disallowed from posting images like those)
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