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01-05-2013, 10:56 PM | #26 | ||
Scooby Specialist
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: Massachusetts
Vehicle:02 WRX 05 LGT Slow Automatics |
Quote:
I can tell you though, the auto has much more torque in the stall speed range than a manual does, whether you want to beleive it or not. Quote:
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01-05-2013, 11:20 PM | #27 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 323379
Join Date: Jun 2012
Vehicle:1992 Trans Am |
Quote:
This community is so ignorant. I can tell you've never owned a stalled automatic. Guess who has? |
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01-05-2013, 11:29 PM | #28 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 323379
Join Date: Jun 2012
Vehicle:1992 Trans Am |
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01-05-2013, 11:38 PM | #29 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 323379
Join Date: Jun 2012
Vehicle:1992 Trans Am |
Quote:
The dyno will show it in a torque spike. The driver feels it in a stronger launch. The torque output in actuality is not any higher. The true reason a stall drops ET is due to getting you into your powerband immediately ...just like a clutch drop. |
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01-06-2013, 09:40 AM | #30 |
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Member#: 180033
Join Date: May 2008
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Queens, NY, 11385
Vehicle:2005 WRX PSM |
Wow, got alot more responses then I thought it would.
No need to argue over every thing, I know the auto in 2nd will skew the numbers ever so slightly, but regardless, the car is running perfect and on the highway this thing is a blast. Going to be getting a FMIC this upcoming week and a bigger turbo later on down the road. |
01-06-2013, 01:30 PM | #31 | |
Scooby Specialist
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
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Vehicle:02 WRX 05 LGT Slow Automatics |
Quote:
Now tell me, how does the dyno measure torque? |
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01-06-2013, 01:31 PM | #32 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 268354
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region:
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Vehicle:02 WRX 05 LGT Slow Automatics |
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01-06-2013, 02:51 PM | #33 | |
Former Vendor
Member#: 26933
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region:
BAIC
Location: Fairfield, CA
Vehicle:2006 STI CGM |
Quote:
Load bearing dynos also measure the load being applie by the eddy brakes and add that back into the calculated power. -- Ed |
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01-06-2013, 04:51 PM | #34 |
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Vehicle:2002 WRX 4EAT WRB Stage 2 |
People bash on the auto til they ride in it. Nothing feels better than leaving the line at full boost and holding it thru every shift. low rpm lag is helped greatly with a 3800 rpm stall. Stock is 3000
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01-06-2013, 05:31 PM | #35 |
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Vehicle:2005 Subaru STI 2003 EJ207 S204 Wagon |
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01-06-2013, 05:35 PM | #36 | |
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Vehicle:2006 Wrx sti Black pearl |
Quote:
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01-06-2013, 07:07 PM | #37 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 268354
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
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Vehicle:02 WRX 05 LGT Slow Automatics |
Quote:
Also, I looked through Airboy's posts on his website, they are very informative. It makes sense now seeing it like he put it. The torque bump occurs due to the non-linear function of the rpm vs. road speed curve in an automatic, and how the dyno goes about calculating at what engine rpm a certain torque is made when using the "calculate from road speed" function. |
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01-06-2013, 10:45 PM | #38 |
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NWIC
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Vehicle:06 Red Ltd.Wagon Dom 1.5xtr JJ tuned |
I don't see what everyone's pissing about. The proper TC makes a huge difference at the track. What's not real about this? Of course it would show up on a graph.
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01-06-2013, 11:15 PM | #39 |
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Muahaha! 390wtq will be a blast to drive in the highway.
Beep.Beep.Beep... Other guy will be like wtf? |
01-07-2013, 12:08 AM | #40 |
Former Vendor
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Join Date: Oct 2002
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Vehicle:2006 STI CGM |
The gains from a good high stall TC are very real at the wheels, which is what the dyno is measuring. It doesn't mean that the engine is actually making that torque at that RPM, but the real world performance gains are definately real and accurately displayed by the dyno. As long as people understand what the graph is displaying and the tuner isn't taking credit for magic torque tuning, there's nothing wrong with it.
-- Ed |
01-07-2013, 12:10 AM | #41 |
Former Vendor
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Vehicle:2006 STI CGM |
I'll have to look it up, but I had a crazy Chevy nova drag car on the dyno a while back. It was a high comp NA V8 with a high stall TC. The resulting power curve looked like a turbo car with a very flat WHP curve because the TC was keeping the engine in the powerband through the majority of the pull. That's how those cars can run some crazy ET's without a ton of peak HP.
-- Ed |
01-07-2013, 06:40 PM | #42 | |
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Member#: 323379
Join Date: Jun 2012
Vehicle:1992 Trans Am |
Quote:
He doesn't have 390wtq. From a highway roll the stall helps very little. It'll be a slouch from a roll in comparison to a launch. I came from the world of stalled automatics. This bench/dyno talk is funny because there's so much misinformation. |
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01-07-2013, 07:03 PM | #43 | |
Scooby Specialist
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Vehicle:1992 Trans Am |
Quote:
Nobody is arguing that the ET will show improvement. But guess what? ET is never proof of power made. If he was swapping converters then sure there's a bit of things to look at, but there's no talk of it. The dyno is wrong. That's all I'm getting at. You can all say otherwise but it's really fanboy leg humping ignorance. Sorry. |
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01-07-2013, 07:19 PM | #44 | |
NASIOC Supporter
Member#: 130990
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Menzel Lake, WA
Vehicle:06 Red Ltd.Wagon Dom 1.5xtr JJ tuned |
Quote:
The graph at least indicates that. |
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01-07-2013, 07:32 PM | #45 | |
Scooby Specialist
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Vehicle:1992 Trans Am |
Quote:
The power isn't changed. The time it took to get there did. There's the ET improvement. Now, a GOOD TC can (CAN NOT does) also net a few mph due to its efficiency and lighter rotating mass. But this is usually minimal if at all. A proper stalled auto will trounce a manual of equal modification in a drag race. Not due to power being more, but optimizing the amount of time spent at or around peak power. Gearing is significant as well. Take two identical cars, gear one to run out of rpm at the 8th mile. It will destroy the other. Now run them down the quarter mile and watch the "faster" get obliterated. It didn't make more power, it just uses it better. It won't dyno any higher, but you can feel it too. Same thing going on. ET is far from the total picture. Traps are far from the total picture. Dynos are far from the total picture. There's way more to racing than numbers. And a dyno graph is the last thing I'd bench race with. Random info: My previous car at one point dynod a pitiful 325rwhp. It had a small 3200 stall and 3.42 gears (which were no longer right for the car) It ran 12.5@108 one night. With a proper stall getting the car to its powerband and the gearing it needed (4000 stall/4.33 gears) it would have dropped to around 11.8 with all else being equal. And still only 325 whp. The dyno wouldn't reflect any changes except for a possible slight efficiency shift. I know this because I had it dynod and used the dyno for what it is. A tuning TOOL. I knew exactly where my shifts needed to be, I knew exactly where I needed to stall up to. Peak power was at 5950rpm. No reason to shift any higher than 6700 rpm in 2nd gear. It's only slower to go to any closer redline with where third gear started at wot. 4.33 gears would have topped me out of third gear at the 1/4 with 26" tires. I knew 28" tires would have gotten me about 10 mph more before I needed 4.10s. That car would have run mid-low 11s this year had I not sold it. And mostly just in optimizing power already made. (And adding some for fun.) Last edited by ProfessWRX; 01-07-2013 at 07:56 PM. |
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01-08-2013, 07:02 PM | #46 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 180033
Join Date: May 2008
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Queens, NY, 11385
Vehicle:2005 WRX PSM |
Im so lost here as fast as torque converter messing with numbers etc etc.
Someone please explain how i would get the closest to "real" numbers. |
01-08-2013, 07:06 PM | #47 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 323379
Join Date: Jun 2012
Vehicle:1992 Trans Am |
Have the dyno operator LOCK the torque converter clutch. The TCC has nothing to do with the gear the car is in. Unless that is an aftermarket stall with no clutch. That is the only way to get an accurate dyno.
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01-08-2013, 07:14 PM | #48 |
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Well i was reading up on the TC lock switch things.
So basically right before the run he would lock it, do the pull, and then unlock before slowing down again correct? And this is all done in 2nd gear. Do you know of anyway to lock the trans into 3rd without it downshifting it self? |
01-08-2013, 07:17 PM | #49 | |
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01-08-2013, 07:17 PM | #50 |
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