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Old 01-05-2013, 03:38 PM   #15101
hi5.0
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Originally Posted by Blackmamba24kb View Post
Not a great start for my Subie....I am so sad and mad at the same time.

Rear ended on the 10fwy after work on my way home. Stupid jerk didnt even brake.

Hopefully no frame damage.

Should have had that sign on my bumper.

Oh damn, that hurts to see. I get pretty paranoid when people follow too closely or creep right up to the rear bumper especially in dense or stop and go traffic. The number of ESL "drivers" who are usually not licensed and insured in my area makes things worse. Hope you're okay and at least the damage appears to not have included the rear hatch glass and tail lights.

You need a bumper sticker that says "Life's a b*tch, and then you get hit by one."
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:13 PM   #15102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
The CVT has one thing going for it:
-A taller overall gear ratio.

Everything else suggests the 5MT would do better with a skilled driver:
-5MT is lighter
-5MT doesn't dissipate significant amounts of energy as heat (AT TEMP light)
-5MT doesn't need to move through several gallons of cold, viscous fluid on startup
-5MT doesn't steal heat from the engine
-5MT's 0-60 time is better despite fixed gear ratios and interrupted acceleration, suggesting lower drivetrain loss

I don't know whether the CVT's EPA rating should be lower, but that it's higher than the 5MT's is suspicious.
I agree, higher top gearing and continuing adjusting gear ratios make the difference, the CVT is heavier than the manual.

I think some CVT drivers think that the manual is somehow outperforming the CVT in MPG's or in meeting the EPA numbers. It isn't -- some people with 5 speeds are getting crappy mileage and some are getting better mileage, just like with the CVT.

I think fewer drivers of the 5speed expect the car to outperform the EPA numbers, and recognize that how the car is driven has a huge effect on the MPG's. A few drivers (who know they have a lead foot) also know that they are not wringing the best fuel economy from the car based upon their driving style. On the highway with a warm engine the CVT will outperform the 5 speed just because of the higher gear ratios -- but both will get terrible mileage if driven faster than 70mph (this is consistent with physics).

PS whoever pointed out that the CVT has a lot of cold fluid to heat up may be on to something, at least as it pertains to City numbers. In the winter time both the 5speed and CVT take a hit, but I would guess the very low CITY numbers some people are seeing are due to the short drives with a cold transmission. This car has to heat up to reach the EPA numbers, which is consistent with how they derived those numbers, from a single 30 minute dyno run. They didn't start and stop a cold engine and cold transmission repeatedly to get the 27mpg number. The testing criteria is on fuel economy.gov if you car to read it.

Last edited by Zeeper; 01-05-2013 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:53 PM   #15103
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The drag of the torque converter and belt seem to negate whatever advantage continuous ratios provide, as shown by the 0-60 time. In conditions where you might get the advertised 36MPG, the CVT will be stuck in its tallest ratio anyway.

After the blue light goes out at 120F, the engine begins routing its heat to the CVT, which prolongs engine warm-up. The engine does not run efficiently at 120F. The CVT makes for a massive heat sink.

From what I've seen with my 5MT, the engine can take half an hour or more to hit 195F on a cold day. With the thermal load of the CVT and heater core, I wouldn't be surprised if the engine never reaches 195F on some of your commutes.

A block heater on my 5MT added 2 MPG on average to my half hour commute. For CVTs, I would expect a greater improvement, especially on short trips.

It will allow you to:
-Minimize the wasteful PZEV startup
-Begin applying heavy load to the engine almost immediately which further reduces warm-up time
-Begin heating the transmission sooner
-Avoid freezing startups, reducing engine wear

You might also save fuel by using the recirculate mode on the heater.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:04 PM   #15104
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Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post

...blah blah blah...

There, I summed up most of the professional reviews in two sentences for you. There isn't a single review that I can find that agrees your opinion is valid. You can have your opinion, just don't confuse it with what most people (including professional auto reviewers) think.
You summed up squat, and you have been pointed to reviews in the past showing that in multiple tank tests where they actually checked the mpg's, the "professional auto reviewers" were disappointed in the mpg. Not the car itself, which you seem to continually try to convolute the argument with, but the mpg of the cvt. How many tanks have *you* gone through in a cvt? None, because you have a 5 speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
BTW did you miss this video, it talks specifically about the CVP MPG's, and completely undermines your seat of the pants observations:

(was a link to a mpgomatic.com website test)
Is that the best you can do? Go to their website and check out how they do compared to their testing vs. official estimates on other cars. I checked about 10 in the range of the cvt highway, and *all* of them did significantly better compared to their EPA highway rating - and in fact the average was about double the percentage above the highway mpg EPA rating.

Not that you understand any of that...
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:25 PM   #15105
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stevenhmfm

I noticed the lack of video evidence (any evidence, really) in your rebuttal.

Wanna try again?

If you watch the videos, the other common statement seems to be "it gets great MPG's for an AWD car"

In fact, that basic sentiment is shared by both Consumer Reports and the mpgomatic reviewer. Sorry they don't seem to share your general lack of enthusiasm.

On a side note, I would much rather listen to Emme Hall's opinions than read yours. Check her out, she is great.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:56 PM   #15106
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Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
stevenhmfm

I noticed the lack of video evidence (any evidence, really) in your rebuttal.

Wanna try again?

If you watch the videos, the other common statement seems to be "it gets great MPG's for an AWD car"

In fact, that basic sentiment is shared by both Consumer Reports and the mpgomatic reviewer. Sorry they don't seem to share your general lack of enthusiasm.

On a side note, I would much rather listen to Emme Hall's opinions than read yours. Check her out, she is great.
The evidence is on the Consumer Reports and mpgomatic.com websites. Check the other cars out if you want to know - but you won't, because you're not interested in the facts.

And, again you are convoluting the discussion, which is about the cvt's gas mileage, compared to what Subaru claims.

Try to stay on task...
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:25 PM   #15107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
The evidence is on the Consumer Reports and mpgomatic.com websites. Check the other cars out if you want to know - but you won't, because you're not interested in the facts.

And, again you are convoluting the discussion, which is about the cvt's gas mileage, compared to what Subaru claims.

Try to stay on task...
Both Consumer Reports and Mpgomatic were test driving the CVT.

I think you are either not watching the videos provided, or you have the sound turned off, because my summation of their comments is quite accurate.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:26 PM   #15108
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oh good another stevenm vs zeeper thread
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:02 PM   #15109
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Originally Posted by myrt1987 View Post
oh good another stevenm vs zeeper thread
^ this
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:18 PM   #15110
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Originally Posted by myrt1987 View Post
oh good another stevenm vs zeeper thread
Yep, it's hopeless. I've never seen anyone spew so much irrelevant manure and make so little sense on a forum.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:22 PM   #15111
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I like my CVT with it's taller gear ratio and 3.22 gallons of fluid. Mileage is pretty close to par.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:41 PM   #15112
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Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
The drag of the torque converter and belt seem to negate whatever advantage continuous ratios provide, as shown by the 0-60 time. In conditions where you might get the advertised 36MPG, the CVT will be stuck in its tallest ratio anyway.
The taller ratio doesn't hold as well and it automatically downshifts sooner at higher speeds under even lesser grades, which exacerbates the increased fuel usage. I suspect at high speeds it can't even hold high gear on flat ground, which might cause the AT overheating problem.
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:03 AM   #15113
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
Yep, it's hopeless. I've never seen anyone spew so much irrelevant manure and make so little sense on a forum.
Internet translation: "irrelevant manure" = 11 independent profesional car reviewers that don't agree with me.

(two of the 12 reviews I provided one page back are by Emme Hall, you should watch her because in her second car review, driving the CVT Sport, she agrees with both of us that the 5 speed is the way to go, although it has nothing to do with the reason you think she should say that)

What the heck, Stevehnm is an engineer! Why won't Consumer Reports return his calls, retract their endorsement of the car, and stop calling it a car that gets excellent MPG's for an AWD platform?

Back to the spreadsheets...

Last edited by Zeeper; 01-06-2013 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:17 AM   #15114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi5.0 View Post
Oh damn, that hurts to see. I get pretty paranoid when people follow too closely or creep right up to the rear bumper especially in dense or stop and go traffic. The number of ESL "drivers" who are usually not licensed and insured in my area makes things worse. Hope you're okay and at least the damage appears to not have included the rear hatch glass and tail lights.

You need a bumper sticker that says "Life's a b*tch, and then you get hit by one."

Yea for the kind words. Yea the damage could have been worst but i think i adverted it because I tried to pull away when I realized he wasn't slowing down. glad the lights and glass didnt break, but i wonder if the spoiler has to come off and be reattached to the new hatch door. hopefully they install it correctly since i dont have the factory template to drill the holes anymore. i installed the oem spoiler after i bought the car.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:21 AM   #15115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeoporta View Post
Blackmamba24kb,
sucks man and welcome to the club, I know how you feel had a driver hit and run my car and it was not even a week old. people suck sometimes
don't forget to go after them for depreciated value if you can do that in your state.
thanks for the kind words to all of you guys!! makes me feel better!!

i will definitely look into that aeoporta!! i totally forgot about that!!


With the bashed up car on the topic of conversation....i posted this also on the so cal forum but no replies or activities really on there so maybe i can get some help here.

does anyone know of a good subaru body shop in the 626 or Los Angeles area?

My 2012 Impreza wagon (non-wrx/sti) was rear ended this past friday and the back is busted.

thanks!

anyone have experience with the dealer body shop (i think santa monica and irvine has their own according to their site). should i take it there since its the dealer that would be working on it?? thanks!!
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:45 PM   #15116
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
Sounds like another issue with the cvt.
Another issue? I'm still looking for one. One case of over heating doesn't make it an instant issue for all CVTs. A few cases of not getting the estimated MPGs doesn't make it an issue for all CVTs either. Forums are for complaints and you get far fewer praises.

I'm happily getting the Estimated MPGs here in Minneapolis/St.Paul even with the cold temps and zero CVT issues.

I love the CVT. Granted its a fairly new technology and I'm still hoping for the best long term. And I'm not saying some true issue might show up later down the road.

Note that Subaru Automatic Trannys have almost always had higher MPG ratings compared with the manual. I don't know about the new Impreza but for older subies, the AWD is handled different between them. Automatic Tranny had a electronic center diff to engage the AWD and under normal operation (no-slip) its mostly front wheel drive. Some say 90%/10% and i've also heard 80%/20%. With the manual transmission its a mechanical center diff, and is 60%/40% or 50%/50% and is more of a constant AWD car with I'd imagine more drag.
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:17 PM   #15117
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Does anyone have pictures of a plasti-dipped stock grill on a DGM '12+?
It was discussed a few times previously in this thread, but I haven't found any post-application pictures. I think the sport grill might be too aggressive for my tastes, but the chrome isn't my thing.
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:26 PM   #15118
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Search it. Its on here about a zillion times. Ya lazy sob.
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:27 PM   #15119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_24 View Post

Another issue? I'm still looking for one. One case of over heating doesn't make it an instant issue for all CVTs. A few cases of not getting the estimated MPGs doesn't make it an issue for all CVTs either. Forums are for complaints and you get far fewer praises.

I'm happily getting the Estimated MPGs here in Minneapolis/St.Paul even with the cold temps and zero CVT issues.

I love the CVT. Granted its a fairly new technology and I'm still hoping for the best long term. And I'm not saying some true issue might show up later down the road.

Note that Subaru Automatic Trannys have almost always had higher MPG ratings compared with the manual. I don't know about the new Impreza but for older subies, the AWD is handled different between them. Automatic Tranny had a electronic center diff to engage the AWD and under normal operation (no-slip) its mostly front wheel drive. Some say 90%/10% and i've also heard 80%/20%. With the manual transmission its a mechanical center diff, and is 60%/40% or 50%/50% and is more of a constant AWD car with I'd imagine more drag.
Bottom line.. get a manual like a real man.
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:58 PM   #15120
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Originally Posted by jd_24 View Post
Another issue? I'm still looking for one. I love the CVT.
I like it too. The paddle shifters are fun to use. I would make the same decision if i had to.

Next car may have MT as long as im not commuting anymore.
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:09 PM   #15121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoutisimo View Post
Bottom line.. get a manual like a real man.
And use it to commute in stop-n-go traffic? Don't think so.
Why would I want less MPGs? Anyone with a manual getting more than 34mpg? How about 36mpg?
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:18 PM   #15122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myrt1987 View Post
I like it too. The paddle shifters are fun to use. I would make the same decision if i had to.

Next car may have MT as long as im not commuting anymore.
If I was buying a WRX, I would want a manual. I'm more than happy with the CVT on the Impreza. Sure, its not always as fun to drive as a manual, but if I wanted a fun to drive car I would have bought the WRX instead
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:41 PM   #15123
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Search it. Its on here about a zillion times. Ya lazy sob.
I tried both "plastidip" and "plasti-dip" within this thread, no pics.
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:56 PM   #15124
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Quote:
Anyone with a manual getting more than 34mpg? How about 36mpg?
Plenty of us are. I'm averaging 34 MPG on a commute that doesn't involve highways. 40+ MPG on the highway isn't difficult at 55-60 MPH.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:10 PM   #15125
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I tried both "plastidip" and "plasti-dip" within this thread, no pics.
try the picture thread. my grille is pdipped only around the edge, the chrome crossbars are still there. pm me if you wanna see that, otherwise id say just go for it, its cheap and reversible.
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