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Old 01-05-2013, 06:58 PM   #1
Jeffman44
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Running a tune by mac auto in parker co on 91 octane. Just put in a wideband and found out that I'm dipping under 10:1 pretty much at all times in open loop. Nothing has changed on the car and I just checked for boost leaks and cleaned the maf. My question is; since I have a cat is the up-the-tailpipe wideband they use less accurate because of the cat? And am I seeing more accurate readings? Should I start looking for mechanical issues or work things out with tuning? I'm thinking the ladder at this point.

Oh and I'm looking at the dyno print out that shows a solid straight 11.6(ish):1 afr.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:19 PM   #2
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Bump
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:35 PM   #3
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pull a learning view, post it up or tell us what your airflow learning trims are. if you have an intake thats not scaled properly(or injectors), or not good enough it can affect open loop (wot) fueling. one way to see if the learned trims are screwing with things is to reset the ecu and do a pull and see where your AFR's are.

they say readings at the tailpipes are .4 leaner AFR than what you'd measure at the turbo/downpipe area. Another thing that can cause richness under boost is a boost leak. if air is leaking out from somewhere, the ecu is going to command fuel for a targeted boost ASSUMING the engine recieves that boost. If it doesn't, it has all this fuel and nothing to do with it.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:00 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmx045 View Post
pull a learning view, post it up or tell us what your airflow learning trims are. if you have an intake thats not scaled properly(or injectors), or not good enough it can affect open loop (wot) fueling. one way to see if the learned trims are screwing with things is to reset the ecu and do a pull and see where your AFR's are.

they say readings at the tailpipes are .4 leaner AFR than what you'd measure at the turbo/downpipe area. Another thing that can cause richness under boost is a boost leak. if air is leaking out from somewhere, the ecu is going to command fuel for a targeted boost ASSUMING the engine recieves that boost. If it doesn't, it has all this fuel and nothing to do with it.
Who are "they"? I'm curious where you got this info from
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:10 PM   #5
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I figured because the cat oxidizes fuel to lower emissions and the wideband measures voltage by oxidizable shtuff on the sensor, that this would cause my open loop map to be pretty screwed by tuning it post cat. I'll get a learning view up soon. I've been tuning a lot of closed loop stuff lately and all the reflashes haven't had any effect on the problem.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:03 AM   #6
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Who are "they"? I'm curious where you got this info from
After further review, it seems imperical data does not support my claims.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:44 PM   #7
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So couple things....

Realized I switched my cat back from a 3" eBay coffee can to a 2.5" borla. Probably causing the richness.

And in my tuning I noticed that my tip in enrichment was still stock. I have 725cc injectors now..... After scaling that properly the car runs like a dream. I also have an e-85 map on the same setup... Still stock tip in table. Why would a veteran tuner not touch this table? I even took the car in because it was bucking and drove like hell. He still left that table untouched.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:16 AM   #8
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the catback made no difference in fueling, I can tell you that. Tip in doesn't mean you're going to run rich, it's more of a drivability. The tip-in is usually the response to quick pedal movements, consistent bucking, or constant bucking would not be the cause of this table remaining stock.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:09 PM   #9
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Only bucking with throttle movement was my problem. That tables values are additional ipw. Scaling it from the 420cc to 725cc proportionally solved the problem 100%
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:50 PM   #10
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How did you scale the injectors, what did you do for the latency? I de-capped a set of stock 420's and will be using them in my up coming build.
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:46 PM   #11
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You generally have to get the latency from the manufacturer but since you're modding the stock ones you can keep them the same. To scale the tip in just multiply the whole table by old injectors/new injectors. For me that was 420/725 so .58.
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffman44 View Post
You generally have to get the latency from the manufacturer but since you're modding the stock ones you can keep them the same. To scale the tip in just multiply the whole table by old injectors/new injectors. For me that was 420/725 so .58.
Sorry, that is incorrect
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:25 PM   #13
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Yea youre probably right. It must be magic that is making my afrs steady during throttle change.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:56 PM   #14
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Actually I did read a thread that stated (technically) you should change the latency because even though I'm using stock injectors they are flowing more fuel. The computer will, in most cases compensate for it, but your supposed to change it. I'll see if I can find it when I get home, I posted in it so shouldn't be hard to find the link.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:57 PM   #15
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romanlynch View Post
Actually I did read a thread that stated (technically) you should change the latency because even though I'm using stock injectors they are flowing more fuel. The computer will, in most cases compensate for it, but your supposed to change it. I'll see if I can find it when I get home, I posted in it so shouldn't be hard to find the link.
Yea I could see that because it won't be flowing the exact right amount of fuel at the exact same time. Might be interesting to try and dial it in perfect.

Last edited by Jeffman44; 01-10-2013 at 07:16 PM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Yea youre probably right. It must be magic that is making my afrs steady during throttle change.
hacked injectors do NOT have the same latency as stock, don't make that mistake.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:59 PM   #18
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So, what would be the recommended latency value for decaped (not bored) stock 420’s??
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:52 PM   #19
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I have no idea but I'm curious too, free bump
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:08 PM   #20
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I would assume the same as a set of 850's or at least close enough it wouldn't make much difference. But that's me assuming
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