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Old 04-22-2012, 11:23 PM   #1
jackassofalltrades
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Default 2012 WRX Cobb Stage 2 AEM- Clutch Cant Handle?

2012 WRX Cobb AP Stage 2 with AEM CAI

Mods:
AEM CAI
CNT TBE
Of course, Cobb AP with Stage 2 AEM 93 octane Tune
Perrin Turbo Blanket

Went from Stock, to Stage 1, Stage 2 with AEM within 4k.

Apparently, the stock clutch cannot hold the amount of power I am putting down to the Flywheel.

When i'm running on "Stage 2" at WOT I shift I feel a hesitation in power after the clutch has been disengaged. Kinda like a stutter, then a surge of power.

Confirmed this test by unistalling the tune back to stock and bringing it to peak TQ and HP and everything feels normal..... no weird "hesitation"


I haven't really seen any issues like this before with other scooby owners with similar mods. However, I know each car is different.

Has anyone else experienced this? If so, maybe it is time to upgrade to a 6-puck.

Thoughts?

Thanks!
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:29 AM   #2
bacalhau16
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If you do think its the clutch, I would put it back on that stage 2 map, going about 45mph in 4th gear, go WOT, it would start to slip if the clutch was showing signs of wear. You may also want to post up a log on that map because it could just as easily be something in the tune.

Because i mentioned its more so when you shift, it could be how your shifting or a weak slave cylinder or throw out bearing. So many variables, this one may be hard to diagnose over the internet. Start with a log first.
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:12 AM   #3
jackassofalltrades
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It is really weird because I am "detuneing" it back to stock then going to WOT and everything shifts fine.

Then I placed stage 2 on again, went to WOT and I feel the hesitation. It didn't do this on "Stage 1" with AEM or the stock tune.

It's a little interesting. Cant wait to find the solution for this one.

I will post a 3rd gear pull today and I WILL make it public for everyone to see on Google Docs

Last edited by jackassofalltrades; 04-23-2012 at 11:14 AM. Reason: Revision
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Old 04-23-2012, 12:26 PM   #4
jackassofalltrades
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Double Post.... Damn Safari.
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Old 04-23-2012, 12:26 PM   #5
jackassofalltrades
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Alright.

Last night I placed the tune back on Stage 2.

This morning I drove it and ran some logs. This morning, honestly felt normal. Maybe it was the tune then.

Here is the first log:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...G1uVnRkLXlNNXc

Second:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...nBPV1F3c2dJcnc

From what I can see, everything looks normal. This leads me to believe it indeed was the tune.

My next question; Which is a preferred tune(excluding Protune)?

I want to have to ability to unistall the tune when I take trips to the dealer. Then slap it back on after.

Open source seems legit, however I have come across someone that can make a nice map specifically for your car and mods.. true?

Thanks in advanced.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:48 PM   #6
Trelor
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Just wondering what is your target boost because it seems to try for 18psi but actually sticks around the high 16s. Also you can get a clutch masters fx500 that's not a 6puck and is good to ~450-500
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:56 PM   #7
jackassofalltrades
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Target boost is 18.5 +/- 1 with Stage 2 AEM 93 OTS map.

It hits close to target boost. But I have seen it hit around 19.1 before as well from an additional data log.

Clutch Masters Fx500? I checked it out and what would the difference do to the pedal. This is my DD.

Maybe the FX300?
http://clutchmasters.com/index.php?m...v_products.tpl

Maybe an Open source tune is the way to go.

I drove it around today doing quite a few pulls to WOT and nothing was hesitating.

Why did just uninstalling it and reinstalling it fix the issue? Doesn't make any sense to me..
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:52 AM   #8
Cobb Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackassofalltrades View Post
Target boost is 18.5 +/- 1 with Stage 2 AEM 93 OTS map.

It hits close to target boost. But I have seen it hit around 19.1 before as well from an additional data log.

Clutch Masters Fx500? I checked it out and what would the difference do to the pedal. This is my DD.

Maybe the FX300?
http://clutchmasters.com/index.php?m...v_products.tpl

Maybe an Open source tune is the way to go.

I drove it around today doing quite a few pulls to WOT and nothing was hesitating.

Why did just uninstalling it and reinstalling it fix the issue? Doesn't make any sense to me..
One thing is if you haven't owned an AWD performance car before and are used to slamming gears with a RWD or FWD performance car, you can get the sensation of a hesitation with a hard shift in an AWD car, especially at higher power levels. In a RWD or FWD performance car, the tires would simply break loose on a hard shift, but with AWD all that energy is hitting the driveline and this can feel like a hestiation of sorts. With these cars, you can learn to introduce a very slight pause when shifting that will eliminate this behavior.

Other than that, we've had numerous Subarus running the stage 2 combo over the years and I don't think I've ever heard of the description of the type of hesitation you are describing. But, the best thing to do would be to get a data log when it is occurring. The logs you've posted so far look fine other than you are underboosting some. Certainly you can get a custom protune with the AccessPORT. It doesn't have to be a dyno tune necessarily - there are tuners that do road tunes or even e-tunes (i.e. tunes via email) for the AccessPORT. But, I would try to identify what the issue is first before attempting to get a tune that may not solve your problem.

Bill
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:07 AM   #9
jackassofalltrades
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Thanks Bill for the clarifications.

Since this issue has not become present before, I will ignore it. I understand where your logic is going, and yes your right this is my first AWD performance car. The past were indeed RWD and FWD which I would shift fine.

Well I guess verdict..... USER Error!! but at least if another dude has an issue with "Hesitation", he'll know what the issue is

I will definitely look into getting a custom pro tune for my AP. I wasn't aware that there were maps that you could uninstall and re-install, guess it makes sense.

Thanks guys.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:48 PM   #10
bacalhau16
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I didn't know this was your first AWD car. Gear shifts are def a little different in this car then in others. I traded in a 370z for my WRX and they are two completely different cars in that aspect. A slight hesitation of sorts like bill mentioned def helps. It's almost as if you slip engage the next gear with the clutch first just a bit as not to shock the drivetrain. Hard to explain, but easy to show if you were in the car with me.

Good luck. Check out Torqued Performance for an email tune. They have great maps and great customer service from what i hear. I will be purchasing my custom map from them tomorrow.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:18 PM   #11
424wrx
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ive been stage 2 and now stage 3 vf52 swap for 3 years now. im still on my stock clutch in my 08 wrx. its all how you drive.
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:09 PM   #12
jackassofalltrades
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Thanks Guys!

Guess I shift to fast for this Monster. I will look into TP as well.
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:12 PM   #13
Likeorasgod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackassofalltrades View Post
I want to have to ability to unistall the tune when I take trips to the dealer. Then slap it back on after.
The dealers will know if they check either way if your ECU has been reflashed or not.

If this is your first AWD you might want to relearn your shifting. I had been so use to FWD and RWD vehicals that I didn't think about all this. I got my 08 at 19K miles and clutch went out at 21K miles. I partialy blamed not knowing how the other owner drove this car. I had been on stage 2 the whole time and that power gain should not been to much for the clutch. I think it was either the first driver or my own habits that cause the failure. Since I have basicly gone back to relearning how I shift. I have allso went with a stage I clutch knowing that I will be moding my car. Specialy since I when I get home from this current job I'll be giong full stage 3.52 (all parts sitting at home).
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:17 AM   #14
bacalhau16
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[quote=Likeorasgod;36977556]The dealers will know if they check either way if your ECU has been reflashed or not.

[quote]


That is actually false. When flashed with the Accessport, they really wouldnt be able to see that flash.
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Old 04-28-2012, 12:26 AM   #15
jackassofalltrades
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The dealers will know if they check either way if your ECU has been reflashed or not.*

**The Dealer will see anything!! Friend works at a local Scooby dealer.

Here is the secret though; Pull the tune off at about 500-1000 miles BEFORE you go to the Dealer. Not ONE tech is going to go through THOUSANDS of logs and data just for a check up. The only way they will suspect something is if:

A: You have a CAI, and you leave it on while visiting the Dealer
B: You have mods that are visual from an engine bay standpoint that could potentially void, or deny a claim in the future
C: You actually messed something up engine/tranny wise and it causes then to dig deep into the ECU.

Pointblank, there is sooooo much data that occurs within your ECU even within a 50 miles.

Advice: Don't give the Tech a reason to check things out.....

Now back on topic.

Likeorasgod and everyone else mentioned that AWD cars are much more different. Moral of the issue/story..... practice as much as possible before beating on your AWD monster. Especially if you are coming from a FWD/RWD car...... or a prius.

Thanks everyone again for your input.
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Old 04-28-2012, 01:22 AM   #16
WRB19
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Yeah get the TP tune...its like a whole different car.
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Old 05-07-2012, 06:41 PM   #17
H8meNow
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I didnt think logs would save through a battery disconnect? True or false.
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Old 05-10-2012, 04:27 PM   #18
Silverspark
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I know what the feeling is... Mine had the same problem on a stage II Torqued Performance. It turned out to be the stock blow off valve fluttering under WOT. It' cant hold the boost steady in 5th under WOT. It has a type of fast surging/fluttering feeling. I put the Stratusphere
( can't Spell ) valve in the car and all gone. My car has 12k on the original cutch.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:33 PM   #19
russomj84
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My car has a similar hesitation, and my only mod is a Stage 1 tune. Did you find out that the cause was?
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:47 PM   #20
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You have to go on combs page and download the Cobb stage 2 + SF. This WILL solve your issue.

I did the same thing...
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:10 AM   #21
matts
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I am very near 400 whp and the stock clutch holds just fine on my 10 wrx. I am at 35K now. Time will tell if it holds up long term, but so far so good. When I upgraded the internals at 24K it still looked brand new.
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