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Old 01-16-2013, 04:07 PM   #2126
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Trust me having the correct WB whether shooting RAW or JPEG does MATTER. It's the difference between a person having the right color or them looking like an alien. Sure you can fix it in post, but it isnt always right.

I shoot about 20+ weddings a year and before I take any shot (especially when the main light source has changed) i re-do my WB.

For my work, I find that having the correct WB in camera yields much better photos. And it saves a ton of time when editing. When editing thousands of photos every week getting it right (WB) in camera is crucial.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:13 PM   #2127
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Thanks for all the info guys! One last question; does using the my flash effect anything or is it the same as processing any other RAW file?
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:20 PM   #2128
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Stay away from on camera flash, if at all possible.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:28 PM   #2129
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sorry, that probably wasn't what you were looking for.

As far as WB goes, flash is ~5000-5500K. This is only going to be a problem if the ambient light is significantly different in K. Experiment with different light sources and see what happens. You'll get different color casts depending on the light sources and your WB settings.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:44 PM   #2130
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Stay away from on camera flash, if at all possible.
I have a 430EXII mounted flash
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:57 PM   #2131
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Originally Posted by XERO287 View Post
Just played around with editing this, tried something difference for once and I don't really know how I like it.

[IMG]http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy39/riyaad_ally/40try138-2_zpsdd74caec.jpg[IMG]

I'm in a mood to be ridiculously critiqued, so come forth with it. XD
Just not a big fan of the pinkish tint.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:43 PM   #2132
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It's more amber on my screen, it was supposed to replicate the sunset. I should post a before and after lol
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:04 PM   #2133
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Originally Posted by king. View Post
That's a big no no. Always shoot in raw. Jpeg compresses the hell out of the files and you don't have the flexibility in post as you do with a raw file.

As far as glass goes, I can't stress enough about getting out of the kit lens series ie 18-55, 55-250, etc. If you don't feel like shelling out for pro L glass, sigma and tokina are still viable options that will produce good results.
18-55mm is a fantastic lens. At least for Nikon it is. Super sharp.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:21 PM   #2134
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18-55mm is a fantastic lens. At least for Nikon it is. Super sharp.
18-55 3.5? I find it horrible for canon.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:26 PM   #2135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLBO View Post
Trust me having the correct WB whether shooting RAW or JPEG does MATTER. It's the difference between a person having the right color or them looking like an alien. Sure you can fix it in post, but it isnt always right.

I shoot about 20+ weddings a year and before I take any shot (especially when the main light source has changed) i re-do my WB.

For my work, I find that having the correct WB in camera yields much better photos. And it saves a ton of time when editing. When editing thousands of photos every week getting it right (WB) in camera is crucial.
Getting to the correct WB is extremely important, but if you understand post processing, there is no way that doing it in camera is "better". At best it's the same. Yes, it can save time later, but I would argue that it takes less time overall (using a mouse and keyboard interface vs. tiny screen and little buttons on a camera). And I'd rather take my time editing it at home, than waste time trying to set it perfectly while on a shoot. Especially a wedding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INKMAN View Post
Thanks for all the info guys! One last question; does using the my flash effect anything or is it the same as processing any other RAW file?
Quote:
Originally Posted by INKMAN View Post
I have a 430EXII mounted flash
As mentioned before, flash is usually betweek 5000-5500K. Normal light bulbs are maybe 2700K and regular florescents are probably a little over 3000K. So if you are mixing flash and indoor lighting it just won't work. You either have to gel the flash to match the color temp, or adjust your settings such that the flash is your only source of light. If you have mixed lighting you will never be able to get the white balance correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by king. View Post
As far as glass goes, I can't stress enough about getting out of the kit lens series ie 18-55, 55-250, etc. If you don't feel like shelling out for pro L glass, sigma and tokina are still viable options that will produce good results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubert69 View Post
18-55mm is a fantastic lens. At least for Nikon it is. Super sharp.
The 18-55 IS and 55-250 IS from Canon are also very, very good lenses for the price. IMO they lack in build and AF speed. The image quality is actually quite good. Sure they don't have an f/2.8 aperture, but depending what your goals are (let's say you're shooting a static subject, at f/8, and you only want to use the image for web use), then it will probably look exactly like a $1000 "L" lens would look. The 3rd party lenses can be good, but generally I've found the quality control can be pretty bad. Within the same model you could get one copy that's better than an "L" lens and the next is worse than a kit lens.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:46 PM   #2136
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Were you wanting to see any specific kinds of editing before and afters, or just anything and everything?
Anything and everything really. Its interesting to see what difference editing does.

Im a complete n00b at this and im just tryn to soak up as much information as i can. Ive got a Nikon D3200 w/kit lense and for now i just would really like to see real fine detail in my photos. I wasnt sure if that was something to be achieved through editing. From my understanding, its the glass is what will get me what im looking for.

Heres some point and shoots from my camera. Please, critique











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Old 01-16-2013, 11:49 PM   #2137
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Well lighting is clearly an issue. Try using a tripod, bumping the ISO to around 200 or less. The pictures are very soft and noisy as well. Look at some night pictures on flickr to get an idea of composition. That should help you out a bit.

Nikon's cheapo 50mm would be a great lens to start with. I use Canon so not exactly sure what it's called.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:00 AM   #2138
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^+1 Post processing is extremely useful during nighttime shots. The shadows in most of the images make it hard to clearly see the whole vehicle. You can get some great pictures straight from the camera during the day, but night time photos almost always require some sort of editing. I like the subject of the second photo. You want more wheel than tire in the last two photos.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:09 AM   #2139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insane_one View Post
can someone post some befor and after pictures of their edits?
Here are some before and after editing from my last set. The top image is a single photo, straight out of camera. The second one is after adjustment in RAW, then using Photoshop to combine multiple copies of the image with different polarizations, and finally a little bit of further tweaking in Photoshop.

1


2


3


4
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:12 AM   #2140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insane_one View Post

Anything and everything really. Its interesting to see what difference editing does.

Im a complete n00b at this and im just tryn to soak up as much information as i can. Ive got a Nikon D3200 w/kit lense and for now i just would really like to see real fine detail in my photos. I wasnt sure if that was something to be achieved through editing. From my understanding, its the glass is what will get me what im looking for.

Heres some point and shoots from my camera. Please, critique
Come out with me one night (seeing as we live like 20 minutes away from each other). I can show you some stuff in person if you'd like.. I'm no professional but I do know a few things and I love night shots.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:24 AM   #2141
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Originally Posted by xluben View Post
Getting to the correct WB is extremely important, but if you understand post processing, there is no way that doing it in camera is "better". At best it's the same. Yes, it can save time later, but I would argue that it takes less time overall (using a mouse and keyboard interface vs. tiny screen and little buttons on a camera). And I'd rather take my time editing it at home, than waste time trying to set it perfectly while on a shoot. Especially a wedding.
Setting doing a custom WB take 1 mins tops, at least on a Nikon. For me its worth it. But everyone has their own work flow.

Back to the pictures.



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Old 01-17-2013, 02:30 AM   #2142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLBO View Post
Setting doing a custom WB take 1 mins tops, at least on a Nikon. For me its worth it. But everyone has their own work flow.

Back to the pictures.




Hate the first one sorry.

The second one a great shot, amazing lighting on the car but something seams off, its almost as the horizon is not level? perhaps some auto leveling to fix the small lean of the image. just my 2 cents, do like the second a lot tho
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:36 AM   #2143
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Originally Posted by BrendanTheGreat408 View Post
Hate the first one sorry.

The second one a great shot, amazing lighting on the car but something seams off, its almost as the horizon is not level? perhaps some auto leveling to fix the small lean of the image. just my 2 cents, do like the second a lot tho
The car and the street are perfectly level. The house isn't perfect but he can't help that.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:29 AM   #2144
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Here are my before/after shots

Before:






CP Composite


couple more images were used obviously...but you get the point
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:31 AM   #2145
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Light Composite


Again - there were a few more images than this..but yeah.


Everything shot in RAW, Canon T2i - Editing done in Lightroom and CS6
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:37 AM   #2146
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Originally Posted by FL4TFTW View Post
Well lighting is clearly an issue. Try using a tripod, bumping the ISO to around 200 or less. The pictures are very soft and noisy as well. Look at some night pictures on flickr to get an idea of composition. That should help you out a bit.

Nikon's cheapo 50mm would be a great lens to start with. I use Canon so not exactly sure what it's called.
Yea i felt that i was lacking alot of lighting. I really wanted to capture the "night time" feeling. but i guess editing and better lighting would give me that.

So for ISO, what effects does having a higher or lower ISO do for photos?

When you say "soft" and "noisy", what do you mean by that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by XSV Klutch View Post
^+1 Post processing is extremely useful during nighttime shots. The shadows in most of the images make it hard to clearly see the whole vehicle. You can get some great pictures straight from the camera during the day, but night time photos almost always require some sort of editing. I like the subject of the second photo. You want more wheel than tire in the last two photos.
I deffinatly need to try some daytime shots

Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
Here are some before and after editing from my last set. The top image is a single photo, straight out of camera. The second one is after adjustment in RAW, then using Photoshop to combine multiple copies of the image with different polarizations, and finally a little bit of further tweaking in Photoshop.
I just realize when people reffer to taking pics "RAW" it doesnt mean raw in the sense that its unedited, and pure like i was thinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayetealynn View Post
Come out with me one night (seeing as we live like 20 minutes away from each other). I can show you some stuff in person if you'd like.. I'm no professional but I do know a few things and I love night shots.
We will deffinatly need to do this!!



Thank you all again for the helpful tips. Thank you! thank you! thank you!
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:04 AM   #2147
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Originally Posted by xluben View Post
As mentioned before, flash is usually betweek 5000-5500K. Normal light bulbs are maybe 2700K and regular florescents are probably a little over 3000K. So if you are mixing flash and indoor lighting it just won't work. You either have to gel the flash to match the color temp, or adjust your settings such that the flash is your only source of light. If you have mixed lighting you will never be able to get the white balance correct.
Just as an illustration (for anyone who might learn from my mistakes) to the mixed lighting sources and WB here is an example of a photo with light sources of two different temps - one of daylight (~5500K) and the other from household lights (~2500-3000K). The little girl's (my daughter) face is lit with more yellow household light, while the back and legs are lit from sunlight through a big sliding glass door. It was kind of an "ah-ha!" moment for me while I was reviewing the photos, trying to even out the WB. This was shot in jpg, edited in iphoto and is about as good as it is going to get. I'm sure in photoshop this could be better balanced, and I believe in LR4 you can adjust color temps with the selective editing brush? But, I'm ok with it how it is for what it is.

[IMG]
_DSC0233 by Aspiratho, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:27 AM   #2148
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Originally Posted by insane_one View Post
Yea i felt that i was lacking alot of lighting. I really wanted to capture the "night time" feeling. but i guess editing and better lighting would give me that.
You can still capture that "night time feeling" and have a properly lit subject. Part of the problem though is that you seem to be working entirely with the available lighting. I'm not saying it is impossible, it will just be a challenge. If your camera allows you to manually set a WB, turn it down as low as you can for those god-awful streetlights (~2000K, if you can) and then cross your fingers. Your camera's AWB hates most street lights. At least, my camera does.


Quote:
Originally Posted by insane_one View Post
So for ISO, what effects does having a higher or lower ISO do for photos?
ISO refers to how quickly your camera can record info on the sensor - how sensitive it is to light coming through your lens. The higher the number, the faster (more sensitive) it will pick up that light and make an image. But, the trade-off is, the higher your ISO the more "noise" you will see in the pictures. For most cameras it isn't a problem until you get above 800 or 1600 or so. Lots of unwanted noise will detract from image cleanness and clarity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by insane_one View Post

When you say "soft" and "noisy", what do you mean by that?
I believe when they said "soft" they were referring to your focus not being crisp. Get more light on your subject (probably a longer shutter speed) to improve this, as well as making sure that your focus is accurate.


If you want to get into night and low light photography an essential bit of kit is a tripod. You don't have to break the bank, you just need something to hold your camera steady.

A good website with lots of tutorials and useful examples and general photo info is http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:31 AM   #2149
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Originally Posted by KLBO View Post
Setting doing a custom WB take 1 mins tops, at least on a Nikon. For me its worth it. But everyone has their own work flow.

[IMG]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8440/7878191576_031b1b3282_b.jpg[IMG]
Takes 1 min, but if you do it several dozen times over the course of a wedding, then you've wasted quite a lot of time. And I still don't see ANY reason it's better than shooting a gray card at each location and then setting the custom white balance back at home when you have a keyboard/mouse/giant monitor/quad core process/8GB of RAM/etc to do it for you. IMO it should be faster for, allow for less wasted time with the client and produce the same (or likely better) results. The only reason it would be better to do it onsite is if you want to save yourself time later. Or if you like to chimp (or let your clients chimp) and want them to look right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrendanTheGreat408 View Post
Hate the first one sorry.

The second one a great shot, amazing lighting on the car but something seams off, its almost as the horizon is not level? perhaps some auto leveling to fix the small lean of the image. just my 2 cents, do like the second a lot tho
Quote:
Originally Posted by FL4TFTW View Post
The car and the street are perfectly level. The house isn't perfect but he can't help that.
I agree that the first one is unimpressive, but the lighting on the car in the second one is exceptional! This is probably one of the best lit/edited shots in the thread! It's unfortunate that the background is so mediocre. This one would be a good candidate for a cut and paste, IMO.

I also agree that the leveling is off. Setting the ground to be level isn't necessarily right. If you want it to be truly straight then a tree or building is usually better. Ground can slant (ie. a hill) but buildings are usually straight up and down. In this case the ground was actually sloping down from right to left, so that's how it should look. It would look much more natural that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red. View Post
Just as an illustration (for anyone who might learn from my mistakes) to the mixed lighting sources and WB here is an example of a photo with light sources of two different temps - one of daylight (~5500K) and the other from household lights (~2500-3000K). The little girl's (my daughter) face is lit with more yellow household light, while the back and legs are lit from sunlight through a big sliding glass door. It was kind of an "ah-ha!" moment for me while I was reviewing the photos, trying to even out the WB. This was shot in jpg, edited in iphoto and is about as good as it is going to get. I'm sure in photoshop this could be better balanced, and I believe in LR4 you can adjust color temps with the selective editing brush? But, I'm ok with it how it is for what it is.

[IMG][IMG]http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6190/6100156620_b0e1f52540_z.jpg[IMG]
_DSC0233 by Aspiratho, on Flickr[/IMG]
This is a good example, but it can be much worse even. And you can edit it out in nearly all cases, but it will usually come down to manual adjustment and be very labor intensive.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:32 AM   #2150
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I love you portrait work Red! I was checking out your website yesterday and it looks great! I was watching some tutorial videos on using the dropper tool to correct white balance but like you were talking about, I seem to have a lot of mixed lighting in my shots. Maybe you can check out my Flickr and give me some advice when you get the chance. It would be much appreciated!
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