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Old 01-03-2013, 09:14 AM   #276
Full-Race Geoff
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stidad - yes I remember your posts! Since then we've had many more requests, a girl named cristine was #1, philthy was #2, phil gerlings was #3 and you were #4

jnorth - We are a small company and cant make all setups for all people. Instead we decide as a team what direction to take things and what products and mfg processes best suit our company. We listened to input from customers, dealers and the forums then sat down and focused on 3 areas of improvement for our subaru products:

1) design a simple bolt-on "stock location" EFR turbo kit: the idea was a true bolt-on kit for the average guy to install in a driveway. It could pass a visual inspection and/or use many of the owner's existing mods whether its Intercooler, intake, lower manifold, etc. The powerband and performance from this is impressive and it will blow some people's minds what is possible on a simple configuration. Anybody who wants to stay stock location or stock appearing, this new kit and 4->2->1 lower (dont call and ask for at least 2 months) can give performance on par or better than many rotated kits, but presents a big cost savings, easier installation/fitment and can be installed in stages or removed easily if need be.

2) increase performance and lower cost on our twinscroll kits: there were 2 major developments here:

a) Twinscroll internal-WG EFR kits - there is big reduction in the up pipe cost by eliminating the WG ports (the most labor intensive part of turbo manifold fabrication) and also eliminating the flanges/clamps/hardware/dumptubes/WGs/hoses/fittings/welds (of course some people still want external WG so we can suit them too)

b) material cost reductions in 2013 came because our purchasing manager aggressively negotiated new pricing with our material suppliers by committing to high volume blanket material orders, due in large part to our ford ecoboost turbo kit mass production which uses the same material as our subaru twinscroll kits. Now we have a much better bending facility local to us with a brand new CNC bending machine and brand new tooling custom made for Full-Race (previously all had to be shipped to a different facility out of state becuase nobody nearby could bend our thickwall material)

putting things in perspective, a rotated twinscroll EFR-IWG up pipe costs less than our old 1.5scroll up pipe due to the labor hours required for the 1.5's merge (they use the same lower manifold). The fact of the matter is if youre looking to extract the broadest powerband possible, rotated twinscroll EFR does that better than anything i've seen, and the decision was unanimous to move away from the expensive and labor intensive 1.5scroll up pipe to a more traditional 2 bolt
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Last edited by Full-Race Geoff; 01-03-2013 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:25 AM   #277
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are you guys still using schedule 10 &40 steel?
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:29 AM   #278
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we use our own custom blend of 316H with specific chromium, nickel and sulfur contents, and it is unique to us in the auto industry afaik. Only 2 places in the US can deliver to our specification, there is a BIG difference from 0.004% to 0.006% and most material suppliers dont have a clue
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:33 AM   #279
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interesting. hence why you can coat and wrap your headers id guess?
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:34 AM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
stidad - yes I remember your posts! Since then we've had many more requests, a girl named cristine was #1, philthy was #2, phil gerlings was #3 and you were #4

jnorth - We are a small company and cant make all setups for all people. Instead we decide as a team what direction to take things and what products and mfg processes best suit our company. We listened to input from customers, dealers and the forums then sat down and focused on 3 areas of improvement for our subaru products:

1) design a simple bolt-on "stock location" EFR turbo kit: the idea was a true bolt-on kit for the average guy to install in a driveway. It could pass a visual inspection and/or use many of the owner's existing mods whether its Intercooler, intake, lower manifold, etc. The powerband and performance from this is impressive and it will blow some people's minds what is possible on a simple configuration. Anybody who wants to stay stock location or stock appearing, this new kit and 4->2->1 lower can give performance on par or better than many rotated kits, but presents a big cost savings, easier installation/fitment and can be installed in stages or removed easily if need be.

2) increase performance and lower cost on our twinscroll kits: there were 2 major developments here:

a) Twinscroll internal-WG EFR kits - there is big reduction in the up pipe cost by eliminating the WG ports (the most labor intensive part of turbo manifold fabrication) and also eliminating the flanges/clamps/hardware/dumptubes/WGs/hoses/fittings/welds (of course some people still want external WG so we can suit them too)

b) material cost reductions in 2013 came because our purchasing manager aggressively negotiated new pricing with our material suppliers by committing to high volume blanket material orders, due in large part to our ford ecoboost turbo kit mass production which uses the same material as our subaru twinscroll kits. Now we have a much better bending facility local to us with a brand new CNC bending machine and brand new tooling custom made for Full-Race (previously all had to be shipped to a different facility out of state becuase nobody nearby could bend our thickwall material)

putting things in perspective, a rotated twinscroll EFR-IWG up pipe costs less than our old 1.5scroll up pipe due to the labor hours required for the 1.5's merge (they use the same lower manifold). The fact of the matter is if youre looking to extract the broadest powerband possible, rotated twinscroll EFR does that better than anything i've seen, and the decision was unanimous to move away from the expensive and labor intensive 1.5scroll up pipe to a more traditional 2 bolt
Thanks for the detailed explanation Geoff,
How do you keep the banks divided on your 2 bolt twin scroll up pipe?

When I think of a 2 bolt flange and the current manifolds offered with one they typically have a large 4-1 collector.

I am very interested in seeing your design approach here.

Thanks again for supporting the subaru community with your cutting edge design's.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:34 PM   #281
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Default 7163 v 7670

Hi anyone/Geoff,

Been looking on this thread for quite a while now and decided to join and ask:

I'm tossing up between the 7163 .80 and 7670 .92. Will the 7163 have the potential to flow over 530 whp at 8000+ rpm?

Scott at Insight in Australia has used the .63 single on the 7163 and I've been told its a MAJOR restriction. My main goal is spoolup with the ability to rev over 8000+ rpm.. yes I want my cake and eat it too!

Thanks for anyone's input
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:34 AM   #282
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the 7163 will not be available until summer, and the production version will undergo many changes from the turbo Scott @Insight and Paul @ Yimi have tried (theirs had slight improvements over the one jeff perrin had too). I agree the .65 a/r is slightly small on the 7163 (that is a great housing oin the 6758 however) so the .8 will be a better choice.

that being said if you are targetting 530+whp and 8000+rpm i think the 7163 is a bit small and the 7670 .92 could fit your high rpm/high flowing application better
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:37 PM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FASTofwestchester View Post
Yes,
We have sold and shipped one to a customer in Ca. Going into a 2.1 stoker Bugeye
That's me, it's a 6758...still in the box sitting in my shed.

Will be going into my car at the same time as a "plain" ver8 EJ207 first while I build the EJ205 into a 2.1L.

The EJ207 just arrived this week, so gimme a month... I'm s-l-o-w and patient. I don't even have an engine stand yet.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:02 PM   #284
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Any chance you guys can modify the up pipe to work with killerb's EL Manifold vband connector?
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:57 PM   #285
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no chance.
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:12 PM   #286
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figured
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:28 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by hakira View Post
Any chance you guys can modify the up pipe to work with killerb's EL Manifold vband connector?
Really?????
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:34 PM   #288
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Subscribed...
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:08 PM   #289
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Really?????
Yes really!!!!!!
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:24 AM   #290
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will the only option for a true twin scroll 7163 be rotated then?

Last edited by phate1229; 01-16-2013 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:19 AM   #291
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correct - the EFR twinscroll housings are much larger than the singlescroll B1 units. that turbo will be available in july
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:17 AM   #292
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Finally seeing how this fits up to the 207 I have on my engine stand...

Is the wastegate preload set already? The nuts are way at the end of the arm and one is loose. I like that the EFR setup doesn't use a rod end on a post. I hate those e-clips that fly off everywhere when you need to pull the end off and twist it a turn or two. At least it looks easy to make preload adjustments, but this can't be the proper preload out of the box, can it? The nut isn't even all the way threaded onto the end of the rod.

Are there any good options for heat shielding and/or blankets for the B1 frame?

I was recommended the DEI T3 blanket, and I bought that... but there's no way to put that on without massive interference with the IWG actuator arm. To go under the arm, I literally need to stuff it under, and there's obviously rubbing against the arm. I don't see a way to put the blanket over the arm at all without some sort of frame to keep it off the actuator rod. Blankets seem to be out, and I think all the aftermarket heat-shields bolt to something that won't be there anymore with this setup. I'd like to have some heat control given the turbine will be inches from the TMIC.

Also, do you know what pigtail I need for the attached BCS? Borg includes a 3 port BCS with all the EFRs, but they don't give a pigtail so you can wire it?

Lastly, is the intention to run parallel BPVs? I see no provision for deleting the stock bypass here. My stock BPV is leaking fiercely, so I ordered some silicone caps to put over the inlet return port and the stock BPV output. Seems like the best solution when my alternative is ghettoing my own block off plate with a hacksaw, dremel, and a hand drill.

Last edited by Concillian; 01-18-2013 at 04:14 AM.
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:12 PM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
That's me, it's a 6758...still in the box sitting in my shed.

Will be going into my car at the same time as a "plain" ver8 EJ207 first while I build the EJ205 into a 2.1L.

The EJ207 just arrived this week, so gimme a month... I'm s-l-o-w and patient. I don't even have an engine stand yet.
How did you decide on the 6758? I've been searching and found zero dyno numbers. I have a 2.5L, but anything to give me an idea would would be great. Should I just assume 20g type power considering its a 49# turbo? Thanks
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:33 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Bru1212 View Post
How did you decide on the 6758? I've been searching and found zero dyno numbers. I have a 2.5L, but anything to give me an idea would would be great. Should I just assume 20g type power considering its a 49# turbo? Thanks
1) compressor map... it's a very wide compressor map at 20-21 psi that goes right through the heart of the efficiency island. It should be a very good match to the 207 or 2.1L stroker at that boost level.
2) this thread has dynos of 7163... a 6758 isn't going to spool later than that so I have a pretty decent idea of what spool will be like.
3) it's also not going to flow as much as the 7163... soo HP will be in between this and a vf. There's not a ton of room between this and a vf, so we have a pretty good idea where things will end up.
4) more or less 20G-ish power. 20G is kinda loaded, considering that "20G" can mean anything from a 7cm original 20G to a 10cm 20g-XT and everything in-between.
5) the packaging should bring flow benefits over the stock setup without making the engine bay too obvious. I like stealthy
6) vband downpipe? Yes please. I hate pulling my Invidia off. With wrap on the bellmouth, one of the bolts comes off 1/12 turn at a time, and I can't put the pipe fully on the studs and still get the nut on. I wish the backside of the DP was also vband. Vband connections are awesome.

I'm not shooting for the moon, and that means I can gamble a bit. I suppose it could end up being a ball bearing vf, and that would make me a little disappointed, but I don't think that will be the case. We'll see where it ends up. I'll have TD04 and an OG 7cm FP18g (on an EJ205) to compare against, all on E85... so once I'm done, people will have a decent idea of where the 6758 fits in.

Last edited by Concillian; 01-19-2013 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:14 PM   #295
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Thanks for your insight Concillian. I should have mentioned that I don't know how to read a compressor map yet. Your post pretty much confirms what I had thought but wasn't sure if you had numbers before you purchased.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:38 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
Finally seeing how this fits up to the 207 I have on my engine stand...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
Is the wastegate preload set already? The nuts are way at the end of the arm and one is loose. I like that the EFR setup doesn't use a rod end on a post. I hate those e-clips that fly off everywhere when you need to pull the end off and twist it a turn or two. At least it looks easy to make preload adjustments, but this can't be the proper preload out of the box, can it? The nut isn't even all the way threaded onto the end of the rod.
you are correct - the wastegate preload must be set during installation, after the turbo is clocked/plumbed. there is only one clocking position that will mesh with the IWG arm so that is easy to find. you can see it here clearly:



The wastegate preload should be a minimum of 2mm, maximum of 10mm. I have the stiff actuator and run 6mm preload and its worked great for me, 16psi base and up to 30psi max at 100% wgdc. If you have a few minutes to read the EFR training manual there is some good info there on this subject



Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
Also, do you know what pigtail I need for the attached BCS? Borg includes a 3 port BCS with all the EFRs, but they don't give a pigtail so you can wire it?
this is a standard fuel injector plug AKA "EV1". this can be purchased at any napa, autozone, etc or we have them in stock also

Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
Lastly, is the intention to run parallel BPVs? I see no provision for deleting the stock bypass here. My stock BPV is leaking fiercely, so I ordered some silicone caps to put over the inlet return port and the stock BPV output. Seems like the best solution when my alternative is ghettoing my own block off plate with a hacksaw, dremel, and a hand drill.
if you run your intake tube which likely has a BPV recirc, its very easy to keep the parallel dual BOV's. If you want to block off the stock BPV and plug your intake that is a good idea and simple/easy to implement


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bru1212 View Post
How did you decide on the 6758? I've been searching and found zero dyno numbers. I have a 2.5L
HERE is a post in this thread with 6758 dyno chart on a stock 05 sti motor:



the only other one i know of was perrin's but his tgv's were funky iirc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
1) compressor map... it's a very wide compressor map at 20-21 psi that goes right through the heart of the efficiency island. It should be a very good match to the 207 or 2.1L stroker at that boost level.
2) this thread has dynos of 7163... a 6758 isn't going to spool later than that so I have a pretty decent idea of what spool will be like.
3) it's also not going to flow as much as the 7163... soo HP will be in between this and a vf. There's not a ton of room between this and a vf, so we have a pretty good idea where things will end up.
4) more or less 20G-ish power. 20G is kinda loaded, considering that "20G" can mean anything from a 7cm original 20G to a 10cm 20g-XT and everything in-between.
5) the packaging should bring flow benefits over the stock setup without making the engine bay too obvious. I like stealthy
6) vband downpipe? Yes please. I hate pulling my Invidia off. With wrap on the bellmouth, one of the bolts comes off 1/12 turn at a time, and I can't put the pipe fully on the studs and still get the nut on. I wish the backside of the DP was also vband. Vband connections are awesome.

...I'll have TD04 and an OG 7cm FP18g (on an EJ205) to compare against, all on E85... so once I'm done, people will have a decent idea of where the 6758 fits in.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:16 PM   #297
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What in the hell is wrong with that dyno? It loses 50 horsepower between 4500 and 5000?
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:20 PM   #298
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^^click on it and you will see the text: "ignore the dip, the dyno's rpm pickup was being intermittent"
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:22 PM   #299
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Ah I see. Hard to see on my phone. In that case it nice power for a stock motor
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:26 AM   #300
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My fault, I thought that graph was a different turbo since on your site has the 7670 and 7163 on the 6758 page. http://www.full-race.com/store/efr-t...rbo-kit-2.html
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