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Old 01-21-2013, 12:13 PM   #3076
Commander Keen
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This is the $30 block heater:

http://www.subarugenuineparts.com/pr...e80886011f0e1d

The plug comes very close to the exhaust manifold, and if you don't orient it correctly, it will touch. The $100 heater has an angled connector, so it doesn't have this problem.
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:00 PM   #3077
Xafen
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When I called the dealer the price would be $204 + the heater (~$100). I didn't ask if that included replacement coolant; you have to drain the coolant to install it. I know often shop supplies like this aren't included in the quote. I've been meaning to call and ask but haven't.

On the other hand, the install guide for the block heater says it's a 20 minute install, so based on that, and the price of labor, I would think the coolant refill would be included.
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:11 PM   #3078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goregasm View Post
This is kinda related to this thread.

Someone said an engine coolant heater was really expensive if you found the one specific to the 2012, but found a generalized one on the subaru website somewhere, for like $30. Does anyone know where to find that? And how much would it cost to have a dealer install it?
Here's another one, magnetic - you just put it on your oil pan:

http://www.amazon.com/Kats-1160-300-Watt-Handi-Heat-Magnetic/dp/B000I8YOR4/ref=pd_sim_auto_1http://www.amazon.com/Kats-1160-300-Watt-Handi-Heat-Magnetic/dp/B000I8YOR4/ref=pd_sim_auto_1
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:13 PM   #3079
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Regarding the A/C going on with defrost, I had the A/C go on automatically when I had the left and right dials on "Auto" and set my temperature on the colder settings. I have the Limited trim level. Probably covered in the manual!
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:17 PM   #3080
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With regards to adding a block heater and any other type of heater, you should incorporate the costs of the hardware/install and also the cost of electricity it takes to heat. Heating elements are rarely efficient and draw a decent amount of current. I don't think it's worth the cost to possibly save a small amount of gas.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:35 PM   #3081
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my MPGs recently took a good dive. I went from average around 26-27 MPG doing short trips (reasonable considering) to averaging 23-24 MPG. I'm not sure if the gas just changed over to the winter mix or what.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:59 PM   #3082
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I know this sounds crazy but i think my car gets better gas mileage with a full tank vs 1/5 tank or less. Any possible reasoning behind this?
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:25 PM   #3083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
Actually it seems to me that if the tank is 90% empty and I fill it with E0 then it will effectively have E01 (1% ethanol) and will be close to the performance of E0. Is that not true?
If you fill when the tank is half empty, then will it be 5/6/7% ethanol or something slightly higher or lower? E0 is E0, E1 is E1, and E5 is E5. If you are measuring E0 against E10, one would assume that the proper mix is being evaluated and not some other unknown ratio.
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:43 PM   #3084
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[quote=stevehnm;38960188]Here's another one, magnetic - you just put it on your oil pan:

[url="[/quote]

Would you recommend something like that? I certainly don't have the tools or skills to install the freeze plug heater from subaru.

Edit: don't even bother asking why my quote is messed up. one of my chrome extensions is a neonazi or something.
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:45 PM   #3085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goregasm View Post
This is kinda related to this thread.

Someone said an engine coolant heater was really expensive if you found the one specific to the 2012, but found a generalized one on the subaru website somewhere, for like $30. Does anyone know where to find that? And how much would it cost to have a dealer install it?
Commander keen posted a thread with pictures. I put in the more expensive one because I found it for 88 shipped. I posted pictures in that same thread
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:57 PM   #3086
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Quote:
With regards to adding a block heater and any other type of heater, you should incorporate the costs of the hardware/install and also the cost of electricity it takes to heat. Heating elements are rarely efficient and draw a decent amount of current. I don't think it's worth the cost to possibly save a small amount of gas.
Resistance heaters are very efficient. ~99% of the energy is dumped into the engine and a trace amount is lost through the cord.

The heater draws 400 watts, so if you run it for two hours and pay $0.14/kwh, it will cost you 11.2 cents.

Compared to just climbing into a frozen car, starting the engine and taking off, that 11 cents is about what you'd save in fuel, so it's a wash in that case. However, if the block heater saves you from remote starting or idling to warm up, the savings would be greater.

There are other benefits too:
-Less startup wear ($$$$)
-More cabin heat sooner
-Better driveability
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:00 PM   #3087
flyboy1100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xafen View Post
When I called the dealer the price would be $204 + the heater (~$100). I didn't ask if that included replacement coolant; you have to drain the coolant to install it. I know often shop supplies like this aren't included in the quote. I've been meaning to call and ask but haven't.

On the other hand, the install guide for the block heater says it's a 20 minute install, so based on that, and the price of labor, I would think the coolant refill would be included.
That's a great price, my dealers were 300+
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:17 PM   #3088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
Resistance heaters are very efficient. ~99% of the energy is dumped into the engine and a trace amount is lost through the cord.

The heater draws 400 watts, so if you run it for two hours and pay $0.14/kwh, it will cost you 11.2 cents.

Compared to just climbing into a frozen car, starting the engine and taking off, that 11 cents is about what you'd save in fuel, so it's a wash in that case. However, if the block heater saves you from remote starting or idling to warm up, the savings would be greater.

There are other benefits too:
-Less startup wear ($$$$)
-More cabin heat sooner
-Better driveability
Do pad heaters you stick/glue on your oil pan work well enough to be worth $30+ and the $0.20 you'd pay to heat up every day if you'd otherwise just idle for 2 or 3 minutes?
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:29 PM   #3089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myrt1987 View Post
I know this sounds crazy but i think my car gets better gas mileage with a full tank vs 1/5 tank or less. Any possible reasoning behind this?
Doesn't sound crazy at all. I've thought the same thing for years. Best answer I've found:

Dear Tom and Ray:

While I know I should be worrying about the tension in Kosovo, I am instead trying to figure out the answer to a dumb question. Why do I get many more miles out of the first half of my tank of gas than out of the second half? For example, my car gets about 200 miles out of the first half-tank of gas. You would think, then, that I would get 400 miles from a full tank. But I don't. I get only another 100 miles or so as the needle goes from half-full to empty. This has been true of other cars I've owned, too. Why is this? -- Frank

Ray: You're absolutely right, Frank. It IS true of every car I've ever owned, too.

Tom: I can't say whether or not my '63 Dodge Dart ever did this. I never filled it up all the way because I didn't want to invest more money in the car than it's worth.

Ray: Here's what's going on: Even after your gauge reads "Full," the tank itself is not necessarily completely filled up. You can always cram in an extra gallon or two. Sometimes more. So you've got gas at the top end of the tank that the gauge doesn't even see.

Tom: So right away, you're starting with a couple of "bonus" gallons at the top. Then, you get "cheated" out of a couple of gallons at the bottom end of the tank, because even when the gauge reads "Empty," there's still more gas in there. And the amount varies tremendously from car to car.

Ray: Here's how it may work using hypothetical numbers. Let's say the actual capacity of your gas tank is 20 gallons. The gauge may only show you what's between the 18 gallon mark (Full) and the 2 gallon mark (Empty). The gauge would read "half-full" when you had 9 gallons left.

Tom: So after you've "filled it up," you have to burn off 2 gallons of fuel before the needle even starts to move down from the "full" mark. That means you actually DO go farther on the first half of your tank-full. And by the time you've gotten down to the halfway point (from 20 gallons down to nine), you've had the benefit of 11 gallons of gas.

Ray: Whereas, in the second half, you only get 7 gallons before the gauge reads empty (from nine down to two). And that's only if you run it all the way down to empty, which most people don't.

Tom: Why do most manufacturers make their gauges like this? It's not that they can't make them more accurate. It's just that they don't want you to overfill the tank or run out of gas.

Ray: Overfilling the tank can ruin the charcoal canister that traps fuel vapors. It's part of the emissions system and is therefore the manufacturer's responsibility for the first 100,000 miles.

Tom: And they don't want you to run out of gas for two reasons. One is that, as we all know, they are great humanitarians and don't want you to have to walk home on a cold, dark, rainy night. But more importantly, the car's fuel pump lives in the gas tank and is cooled by the gasoline. And they'd feel just terrible if you ran out of gas and burned out the fuel pump -- especially while the car was covered by THEIR warranty.
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:49 PM   #3090
Guzzi 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myrt1987 View Post
I know this sounds crazy but i think my car gets better gas mileage with a full tank vs 1/5 tank or less. Any possible reasoning behind this?
.

Well, you have one answer, but there is also another very simple answer. Think of a perfect cube. Now notch it out in the middle from one side to the other so it is like a saddle. You sit that over the rear control arms and suspension. You have the total volume of said cube at the top until you reach the point that the tank is notched to fit over "stuff". There is simply less volume in the lower part of the tank as a result of the notch. I don't know how many cars are designed this way, but I recall that on my old WRX, ther was actually a secondary fuel pump inside the tank to keep the level equalized in the lower part. Otherwise there would be fuel in one section you couldn't get to for use. Same principal if you had a pyramid. For every inch drop inside, the volume increases. A tank shaped like that would go down quickly at the top and slowly at the bottom. A fuel level indicator is a simple device. Generally, it does not meter fuel flow. It simply tells you the level inside the tank. Nothing more than a bobber floating on the surface connected to a rheostat.

John

Last edited by Guzzi 1; 01-21-2013 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:50 PM   #3091
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Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
How is it not contributing when it drops your mpg an additional 1-1.5 mpg?
Easy.. I very rarely use those settings.
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:10 PM   #3092
Commander Keen
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Quote:
Do pad heaters you stick/glue on your oil pan work well enough to be worth $30+ and the $0.20 you'd pay to heat up every day if you'd otherwise just idle for 2 or 3 minutes?
I'm not sure, I've never used one. It looks like most of the stick-on heaters have less than half of the power of the OEM block heater.
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:13 PM   #3093
flyboy1100
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Originally Posted by vwgti123 View Post

Easy.. I very rarely use those settings.
My car fogs up if I don't
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:09 PM   #3094
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Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
My car fogs up if I don't
Maybe you have more hot air than vwgti.

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Old 01-21-2013, 08:10 PM   #3095
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Originally Posted by sgoldste01 View Post
Right. So maybe people who are dissatisfied with their MPGs should consciously avoid both of the defrost settings unless the windows are really fogging up. Five percent is significant.
well, i have to admit: i learned something new. mine has been set that way for the past few months and my mileage has really dropped in that time. i'll have to play around with this as i unlikely need it on all the time.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:33 PM   #3096
myrt1987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLL_OBP View Post
Doesn't sound crazy at all. I've thought the same thing for years. Best answer I've found:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guzzi 1 View Post
Well, you have one answer, but there is also another very simple answer. Think of a perfect cube...
no no no, yes thats true but thats not what i meant. I get better mpg numbers at a full tank. for example: full tank cruisin down the highway at 55mph at a steady 44mpg vs 1/4 tank cruisin down highway at 55 at a steady 39mpg. All other variables constant.

its easier to keep 40+ mpg while cruising with a full tank. Despite the extra weight. Im not talking about overall miles.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:23 PM   #3097
Commander Keen
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Maybe a near empty tank allows for more moisture to condense, which is absorbed by the ethanol.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:47 PM   #3098
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All I know is -10f + 20mph headwind + 70mph = crap mpg
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:30 AM   #3099
CLL_OBP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myrt1987 View Post

no no no, yes thats true but thats not what i meant. I get better mpg numbers at a full tank. for example: full tank cruisin down the highway at 55mph at a steady 44mpg vs 1/4 tank cruisin down highway at 55 at a steady 39mpg. All other variables constant.

its easier to keep 40+ mpg while cruising with a full tank. Despite the extra weight. Im not talking about overall miles.
Oh, now that's something totally different. I haven't noticed anything like that and I fill up at half tank.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:30 AM   #3100
stevehnm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
Resistance heaters are very efficient. ~99% of the energy is dumped into the engine and a trace amount is lost through the cord.

The heater draws 400 watts, so if you run it for two hours and pay $0.14/kwh, it will cost you 11.2 cents.

Compared to just climbing into a frozen car, starting the engine and taking off, that 11 cents is about what you'd save in fuel, so it's a wash in that case. However, if the block heater saves you from remote starting or idling to warm up, the savings would be greater.

There are other benefits too:
-Less startup wear ($$$$)
-More cabin heat sooner
-Better driveability
Very true, unless you are using a relatively long and small diameter cord. However, another thing to think about is the heat lost to the environment because of the temperature differential. Still, the benefits could outweigh the additional cost in electricity, especially since it's probably used mostly by people on their way to work who might otherwise wait until the engine was warmed up for a couple of minutes in order for the colder oil to cycle through and lubricate the engine. That additional time could be work time (as well as the additional time saved by not holding up traffic in the slow lane to eek out a couple more mpg's).
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