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Old 01-17-2013, 09:30 AM   #26
Cobb Tuning
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WOT 3rd gear pull

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...nZPbmtBLTlmOGc

I do notice that i did over boost quit a bit. Cold weather possibly? But this pull did not show any FBKC or FKL.
The fine knock learning in the previous log is not a concern - it is two knock events at very low load that were applied to the current "cell", which is a specific load and RPM range. Because RPM and load is relatively steady in the log, the same correction is being applied over and over. It doesn't mean you are knocking over and over, you are just seeing the correction being re-applied (and you actually see it ramp back to zero over that time).

The last two logs are missing some key parameters, so I would reset the log list to the default for future logs (select "Reset Log List" under AccesPORT's "Monitors" menu). You don't need the A/F Learning 1 A,B,C,D values in the log - you can simply spot-check these at any time via the "Live Data" function.

You are overboosting in the last log by quite a bit. Could be due to colder weather combined with the catless DP. Were you still running the LWG map for this run?

Bill
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:49 AM   #27
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Okay and yes I'm still running the stage 2 93 LWG map.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:53 AM   #28
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Have any idea why this is happening? Theories?
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:39 AM   #29
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Have any idea why this is happening? Theories?
As far as the overboost, the catless downpipe you are running is likely the cause (along with the colder weather which can make that worse). If you are already on the LWG map, you can give the fuel economy map a test run which will disable boost control. This will tell you if there's any chance of tuning around this overboost or not. Post up that run and we'll take a look.

As far as the knock correction at low load, the fine knock learning in that one log wasn't unusual, but your previous correction as worse as -12 were. I don't know what you've fixed since then (lower heatshield for example), so maybe you've corrected the problem that was causing the false knock. Try to recreate the same situation where you saw the -12 previously and see if you get the same result.

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Old 01-17-2013, 03:56 PM   #30
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So.... I took off my air intake black short ram duct and there was a metal flashlight under it...
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:51 AM   #31
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So.... I took off my air intake black short ram duct and there was a metal flashlight under it...
Well that is odd. Don't know if that will necessarily cause false knock, but you can get some additional data logging to see or not.

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Old 01-20-2013, 12:02 AM   #32
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So It turns out that the flash light rattling was not the problem I was driving on the highway today and at one point -12 FBKC occurred a lot and varied between -12 and -8. I don't really know what to do.
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Old 01-21-2013, 10:15 AM   #33
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So It turns out that the flash light rattling was not the problem I was driving on the highway today and at one point -12 FBKC occurred a lot and varied between -12 and -8. I don't really know what to do.
I would get the lower heatshield off - even bending it out of the way does not mean it is not going to vibrate. Try soaking the bolt with PB Blaster overnight and then spray it again an hour before you attempt to take it off. That should do it in most cases.

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Old 01-21-2013, 02:41 PM   #34
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Alright that makes sense ill get that off today and see if it makes a difference. What does it mean when your A/F values exceed +-5.5%?
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:55 AM   #35
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Alright that makes sense ill get that off today and see if it makes a difference. What does it mean when your A/F values exceed +-5.5%?
I answered this question in your other thread.

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Old 05-21-2013, 06:30 AM   #36
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I haven't posted in this thread in a long time. I'm still having this knock problem sometimes I get -12 sometimes I get nothing on long express way drives. There is no consistent FBKC value that reoccurs it always shows something different. My fuel trims are well within the acceptable parameters and I switched to stage 2 ANC 91 oct. And it still happened on this map I've had local tuners look at it and they can't explain why it is happening either. I can't find anything that would cause false knock. I ordered a new knock sensor yesterday and should be here within the 2-3 days.. So ill see if that will fix the problem. And with WOT pulls I won't get knock. Just in load low cruising conditions. This has just been a frustrating problem that I can't seem to find out what is causing it.
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:05 AM   #37
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I haven't posted in this thread in a long time. I'm still having this knock problem sometimes I get -12 sometimes I get nothing on long express way drives. There is no consistent FBKC value that reoccurs it always shows something different. My fuel trims are well within the acceptable parameters and I switched to stage 2 ANC 91 oct. And it still happened on this map I've had local tuners look at it and they can't explain why it is happening either. I can't find anything that would cause false knock. I ordered a new knock sensor yesterday and should be here within the 2-3 days.. So ill see if that will fix the problem. And with WOT pulls I won't get knock. Just in load low cruising conditions. This has just been a frustrating problem that I can't seem to find out what is causing it.
Very extreme feedback knock correction at low loads (-12 is the limit of the system) is typically going to be one of the following 1. something making noise that could be transmitted to engine block and picked up by the knock sensor 2. broken ringland (need compression and leak-down test to verify) 3. knock sensor issues (usually not the problem if the sensor has never been touched due to repair or whatever).

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Old 05-21-2013, 12:52 PM   #38
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Okay thank you Bill
I will see if the new sensor fixes the problem if not I will get a compression test down.
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Old 05-21-2013, 12:59 PM   #39
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It would really suck if it was a ring land cause I have very light mods and I hardly ever beat on the car. Wouldn't a broken ring land have other symptoms as well?
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:41 AM   #40
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So i did a compression test myself and my high is 145psi and my low is 142psi. So I believe I have ruled out bad ring lands. But I did replace the knock sensor and I haven't gotten any outrageous knock while driving. But is there any key determination that the Ecu can make or show that this is false knock? And just to be sure on the torque spec of the knock sensor what do you guys say it is? I've seen anything from 4lb to 15lb.
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:22 PM   #41
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I also should say when I took out the spark plug in cylinder 2 the top of it was white. Which from my understanding means the cylinder is going lean? But I haven't noticed the car going lean but ill have to keep a closer eye on it. What do you guys think?
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Old 05-28-2013, 10:39 AM   #42
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So i did a compression test myself and my high is 145psi and my low is 142psi. So I believe I have ruled out bad ring lands. But I did replace the knock sensor and I haven't gotten any outrageous knock while driving. But is there any key determination that the Ecu can make or show that this is false knock? And just to be sure on the torque spec of the knock sensor what do you guys say it is? I've seen anything from 4lb to 15lb.
You'll need a leak-down test to completely rule it out. Sometimes ringland damage will still pass a compression test.

I would get the factory manual page for your particular car for install of knock sensor (you can get this from the Subaru tech info site) - the knock sensor has to be orientated a particular and also torqued correctly (with torque wrench).

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Old 05-28-2013, 08:13 PM   #43
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Okay will do thank you
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:14 AM   #44
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Interesting thread. Great to see updates.
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:32 PM   #45
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Log you Ac compressor signal and see if that correlates. I logged 12 fbkc events yesterday and all but 1 (at low load) were the Ac compressor being turned on. Mine are generally only 1.4 though.

Also, if the Ac gives fbkc, they should never cause fbkl since the ecu won't learn if the Ac just turned on/off.

The only time I ever see knock on stock tune BTW, is when my maf g/sec passes 30 as the load increases as I go on the gas.
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:00 AM   #46
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Log you Ac compressor signal and see if that correlates. I logged 12 fbkc events yesterday and all but 1 (at low load) were the Ac compressor being turned on. Mine are generally only 1.4 though.

Also, if the Ac gives fbkc, they should never cause fbkl since the ecu won't learn if the Ac just turned on/off.

The only time I ever see knock on stock tune BTW, is when my maf g/sec passes 30 as the load increases as I go on the gas.
He's seeing corrections of -12 -> which are the limit for feedback knock correction. This wouldn't be caused by normal noise of A/C compressor kicking on/off short of something wrong with that system that is generating a lot of noise.

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Old 05-31-2013, 06:56 PM   #47
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I agree, I just don't know where to go from here at the moment. Ill probably do a leak down test even though I don't think my ring lands are the issue, but I'm running out of options. I will continue to look for anything loose or rattling.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:59 PM   #48
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Also, my Ecu has not learned any of the FBKC.
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:27 PM   #49
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Also, my Ecu has not learned any of the FBKC.
Feedback knock correction has no impact on the DAM or fine knock learning.

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Old 05-31-2013, 09:55 PM   #50
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What does?
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