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Old 01-14-2013, 11:27 PM   #1
keepclam
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Default Nissan Dropping Leaf Price 18%

Wow, that's a pretty significant drop... now only $18k for a Leaf in some areas of the US. More at the link.
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/niss...-car-1B7972322
Quote:
Paul A. Eisenstein , The Detroit Bureau
Nissan slashing price on Leaf battery car
Nissan will drop the price on a new version of its Leaf battery-electric vehicle by 18 percent, or about $6,000, the maker announced during a North American International Auto Show news conference.

The Nissan Leaf S trim level will now start at $28,800, according to executive Carlos Munoz, who noted that with the $7,500 federal tax credit on qualified electric vehicles and various state incentives added in, buyers in some parts of the country will now be able to purchase a Leaf for as little as $18,000.

“We are confident this will represent a tipping point,” in terms of driving up demand for the Leaf, the first mainstream battery-electric vehicle from a major manufacturer in nearly two decades, said Munoz.
...
The decision to drop the price on the Leaf – other versions are also seeing a small price cut – comes as Nissan launches production of the battery car on a new assembly line in Smyrna, Tenn. Until now, the car and its 24-kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery pack have been produced in Japan.

That’s meant a significant penalty for Nissan because of the currently lopsided dollar-yen exchange rate. Ghosn noted the maker’s original business plan for the Leaf anticipated an exchange rate of 100 yen to the dollar but that has dipped to as little as 80.
...
Moving the vehicle to the U.S. helps trim production costs but Nissan has taken other steps to improve production efficiencies and lower component costs – especially for the battery pack, the single-costliest part of an electric vehicle like Leaf.
...
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:14 PM   #2
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I wouldn't even buy it for $15k. It's an under engineered golf cart with a bunch of electronic gadgets powered by a bunch of laptop batteries.

Good luck driving this in the summer time. As the heat will tremendously degrade the battery.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:51 PM   #3
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I was hoping they would say Nissan dropping leaf


off a building.

HAHAH
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:19 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT11 View Post
I wouldn't even buy it for $15k. It's an under engineered golf cart with a bunch of electronic gadgets powered by a bunch of laptop batteries.

Good luck driving this in the summer time. As the heat will tremendously degrade the battery.


"I wouldn't even buy an automobile if it cost a penny-farthing. It's a loud, crude, dangerous attempt to replace a horse with a bunch of rust-prone gadgets powered by explosive liquid.

Good luck if you run out of gas. Your automobile can't just eat grass by the side of the road, like my stallion can. Which tremendously degrades your unseemly excuse for a carriage's range."

There's always someone...
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:11 AM   #5
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Great price-point for this car. I like how Nissan is trying to build the brand/infrastructure for electric cars.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:57 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balantz View Post


"I wouldn't even buy an automobile if it cost a penny-farthing. It's a loud, crude, dangerous attempt to replace a horse with a bunch of rust-prone gadgets powered by explosive liquid.

Good luck if you run out of gas. Your automobile can't just eat grass by the side of the road, like my stallion can. Which tremendously degrades your unseemly excuse for a carriage's range."

There's always someone...
There's currently a lot of someone's not buying plug in electric vehicles.

If plug in electric really is the future of automobiles then when the performance and price is right and I jump ship I'll appreciate the suckers, er, trendsetters that paved the way by over paying for ****ty early technology.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:32 PM   #7
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I love how everyone keeps INSISTING electric vehicles are the next big thing, like they know 100% that it will eventually adopt over other alternatives.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:56 PM   #8
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It seems like a slap in the face to the people who already bought one.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:19 PM   #9
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I love how everyone keeps INSISTING electric vehicles are the next big thing, like they know 100% that it will eventually adopt over other alternatives.
EVs certainly have a big head start. What are the viable alternatives?
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:34 PM   #10
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It seems like a slap in the face to the people who already bought one.
Technology gets cheaper over time.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:42 PM   #11
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Not to mention that early adopters are always willing to pay more. Look at the people who pay big $$$ in dealer markups just to have the first model run of a car.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:57 PM   #12
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EVs certainly have a big head start. What are the viable alternatives?
One is a biofuel derived from lipids of Algae. Algae is very abundant, and replicates very quickly, so there is no danger of depleting the source anytime soon. Or if electric is your thing, a solar panel on top of a cars roof. During the day, the car will run on sunlight, yes sun exists even on cloudy days, and during the day, while the sun is powering the car, the batteries will be charged for night time use if needed. But in general, Electric cars are just as bad as gasoline engines or even some cases worse. The lithium has to be mined, and the battery manufacturing alone uses tons of toxic chemicals. And the majority of the electricity in the U.S. comes from coal fired plants, and with Obama calling for less Coal plants, that might create an increase in the price of electricity. So then, you'd be worried about the price of electricity and the possible release of more SO2.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:20 PM   #13
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One is a biofuel derived from lipids of Algae. Algae is very abundant, and replicates very quickly, so there is no danger of depleting the source anytime soon.
Where exactly would you farm all this algae? Have you worked out the scale it needs to be on? Try it.

Quote:
Or if electric is your thing, a solar panel on top of a cars roof. During the day, the car will run on sunlight, yes sun exists even on cloudy days, and during the day, while the sun is powering the car, the batteries will be charged for night time use if needed.
Have you worked out how much power (total, not just the fraction that you can extract with a panel) hits the roof of a car in direct sunlight for a whole day? How does it compare to the amount of energy required to move that car one mile? Try it.

Quote:
But in general, Electric cars are just as bad as gasoline engines or even some cases worse. The lithium has to be mined, and the battery manufacturing alone uses tons of toxic chemicals.
Debunked already. Sure, the mining ain't great, but compared to the lifetime emissions from a pure gasoline car, it's not a bad deal.

Quote:
And the majority of the electricity in the U.S. comes from coal fired plants, and with Obama calling for less Coal plants, that might create an increase in the price of electricity. So then, you'd be worried about the price of electricity and the possible release of more SO2.
Most of the electricity in the region I live comes from hydro. Some from fossil fuels like coal, yes. Some from nuclear. Hey, wait a second, we may be on to something -- I can get electricity from a variety of sources! It's almost like I'm just using electricity as a mechanism to transport power, rather than burn it directly like gasoline. So maybe the future of cars means independence from the source of energy? Sign me up!
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:26 PM   #14
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Coal is already way down because of fracking and the subsequent cheap natural gas.

Electricity in cars is awesome b/c you become fuel agnostic mostly. You can use whatever you want and have cheap to generate electricity. Look at historic electricity and fuel prices. Electricity is way more predictable and consistent than gasoline and diesel.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White out View Post
Technology gets cheaper over time.
I agree with this. The problem is that the usage of electricity by the car is quite optimized and efficient. The difficulty is the batteries are made from expensive materials that don't hold much energy. I want the batteries to make a jump before we push the electric car.

They had it figured out in 1902:

But they found it better to refine the internal combustion engine than to add battery capacity.

The fact is gasoline is still cheap and plentiful. And I think it's more likely that we end up generating some other material to burn in a ICE than a magic new battery tech to be our next phase.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:52 PM   #16
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Where exactly would you farm all this algae? Have you worked out the scale it needs to be on? Try it.

Have you worked out how much power (total, not just the fraction that you can extract with a panel) hits the roof of a car in direct sunlight for a whole day? How does it compare to the amount of energy required to move that car one mile? Try it.

Debunked already. Sure, the mining ain't great, but compared to the lifetime emissions from a pure gasoline car, it's not a bad deal.

Most of the electricity in the region I live comes from hydro. Some from fossil fuels like coal, yes. Some from nuclear. Hey, wait a second, we may be on to something -- I can get electricity from a variety of sources! It's almost like I'm just using electricity as a mechanism to transport power, rather than burn it directly like gasoline. So maybe the future of cars means independence from the source of energy? Sign me up!
You can easily cultivate all of this algae in a lab using a algae photobioreactor. Basically Bio-engineering to produce and cultivate all of it, and bio-chemical engineering to extract the massive amount of oils in the algae to convert into bioethanol and biodiesel. However, it is currently in the development and testing phase, regarding sustainability on a massive scale.

Last edited by blueninja85; 01-16-2013 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eby View Post
There's currently a lot of someone's not buying plug in electric vehicles.

If plug in electric really is the future of automobiles then when the performance and price is right and I jump ship I'll appreciate the suckers, er, trendsetters that paved the way by over paying for ****ty early technology.
Electric cars are still a long way till perfection, but this is a good start. In order for the company to R&D new technology. Its going to be expensive.

Don't cry about it. No one is a sucker by being early adopters. If so, your are a sucker for purchasing a computer, smartphone, TV, even any car, because the next year there is will be a better one.

Don't cry about it
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:36 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by 4wdwrx View Post
Electric cars are still a long way till perfection, but this is a good start. In order for the company to R&D new technology. Its going to be expensive.

Don't cry about it. No one is a sucker by being early adopters. If so, your are a sucker for purchasing a computer, smartphone, TV, even any car, because the next year there is will be a better one.

Don't cry about it
I'd be crying if I paid 36 grand for a car that can only drive 73 miles on a good day with a tailwind. And I'd feel like a total sucker if I just bought said car a month ago and found out the price is now dropping by 18%.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:13 AM   #19
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I'd be crying if I paid 36 grand for a car that can only drive 73 miles on a good day with a tailwind. And I'd feel like a total sucker if I just bought said car a month ago and found out the price is now dropping by 18%.
Maybe they can give them a free sun shade like apple does every time they release a product and milk the early adopters then drop the price significantly
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:40 AM   #20
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Regarding algae: According to one projection, it looks like 5.4 million acres would be needed for the US. Which is less than 2% of total farmland (of course, you wouldn't need to use farmland, this is just for comparison purposes). This is based on a projection of being able to produce 25,000 gallons of ethanol per acre per year.

http://scienceblog.com/58968/enginee...oBLzEsCuPhP.16

One catch is that this system needs to be fed CO2 - so it needs to be next to a power plant. I don't know if there are enough power plants to feed that many algae farms, but at least it is a good way to clean the CO2 while creating a clean fuel.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:43 AM   #21
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Maybe they can give them a free sun shade like apple does every time they release a product and milk the early adopters then drop the price significantly
Every time?
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:41 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by scott_gunn View Post
Regarding algae: According to one projection, it looks like 5.4 million acres would be needed for the US. Which is less than 2% of total farmland (of course, you wouldn't need to use farmland, this is just for comparison purposes). This is based on a projection of being able to produce 25,000 gallons of ethanol per acre per year.
Not only does that assume a production level that hasn't been proven possible yet, it also assumes a 1:1 replacement of gasoline with ethanol. If it were as simple as dedicating 5.4 million acres to fuel production, we'd have done it a long time ago. There are complications, however. For example, to produce a gallon of biodiesel from algae, it takes almost 4000 gallons of fresh water. Scaling that is non-trivial.
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:58 PM   #23
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I agree with this. The problem is that the usage of electricity by the car is quite optimized and efficient. The difficulty is the batteries are made from expensive materials that don't hold much energy. I want the batteries to make a jump before we push the electric car.
this doesn't make sense either, really. The same money from current sales that's partially funding infrastructure improvement is partially funding battery improvement research. Think cell phones.

you're proposing a solution that would guarantee the problem in perpetuity.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:31 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by MrSaabaru View Post
this doesn't make sense either, really. The same money from current sales that's partially funding infrastructure improvement is partially funding battery improvement research. Think cell phones.

you're proposing a solution that would guarantee the problem in perpetuity.
But cell phone batteries suck. All cell phone improvements are on the ability and usage side, while the battery goes for maybe a day once it's 6 mos. old.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:45 PM   #25
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As much as I want to consider a vehicle purchase like this in the near future, I can't help but feeling it's still a little too much money and has less range than I'd like.

Getting close, though. Bring on the economies of scale. I think we'll see a very exciting transportation revolution in our lifetimes.

Give me a smaller, more basically appointed Tesla-like sedan with a 200 mile range for $35k and I'd pull the trigger.
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