Getting ready for my build and have questions

romanlynch · 01-09-2013, 10:23 PM

Im going to start building my 2.1 for my wrx and I had some basic questions. Ill be using Manley 92.5 stroker pistons, the stock TD04 but plan on an 18G or a 68HTA if I can find one later on.

My questions are:

Will factory case bolts, rod bolts and head bolts be ok or should I switch rod and head bolts to APR? Should I switch to head studs?

Do I order the complete engine gasket kit from Subaru or is there an aftermarket option?

Now to the important part, torque plate. Ive read the threads where 3MI and Maxwell (and others) say how important it is. Is this just used on the final honing part? And is there anyone that would lend me 1 plate, Id pay in full for it as long as I could get a refund minus the (your) shipping. PM me on that part.

Is there anything special I need to know about any of the machining work? Im at a school with a complete machine shop, including a 4 axis CNC so I should be covered on equipment

Just unsure on the process of boring and honing, like any special adapters needed?

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wrx1392 · 01-09-2013, 11:10 PM

head bolts are not suppose to be reused ...the arp studs are very nice .i think you can reuse the block bolts as ARPs for that are very expensive.if you change the rod bolts you should have the big end resized.at least thats what i've always herd.

kakarot09 · 01-09-2013, 11:28 PM

Both the block and head bolts can be reused. I like arp head studs for every build though. They aren't that expensive and I think they're a good idea. The rod bolts can also be reused, not a bad idea to replace them though. For your goals I would just do new oem rod bolts.

Flat 4 Motorsport · 01-10-2013, 01:02 AM

You can reuse all these bolts:

CASE
RODS
HEADS

BUT,,,,,I would replace rods and head bolts.

I usually tell my customers to replace those,

replacing case bolts is big business! don't let anyone talk you into replacing case bolts unless you have unlimited money

align hone is expensive!

just do new bolts,

@ $52 for all new bolts you cant beat that!

romanlynch · 01-10-2013, 06:24 AM

I'm actually putting together a bare block do I'll need case bolts anyways. Line hones free since I have access to the equipment, but really hoping I don't have to

kakarot09 · 01-10-2013, 02:03 PM

I should have mentioned some of this stuff earlier. I think the best option unless you have a bunch of money is new oem bolts for all of it. I still like arp head studs though. I trust them more. I notice no one mentioned the gasket kit yet. There is an aftermarket gasket kit but the oem kit is preferred.

For the machining you need the torque plate for final honing. You should also use it to set the ring gaps.

For special adapters etc I'm not sure since I don't do the machining myself. However I do know one shop local to me didn't have the right boring tool and sent me to another machine shop. The way the block is supported under the cylinders doesn't leave a lot of room so you need a boring adapter that can reach the bottom of the cylinder without hitting the block.

romanlynch · 01-10-2013, 02:23 PM

Ok, the teacher said he's done suby's before so I guess we have the correct stuff.

Should I use Fuji bond or the permatex equivalent?

Do I use all factory specs for clearances, ie ring, bearing, piston? I've got a factory service manual.

ILikeBeans · 01-10-2013, 02:57 PM

I like Hondabond or Yamabond for my builds. I haven't used any of the equivalents though, and I doubt I ever will.

spackyscooby · 01-10-2013, 03:42 PM

After you get a new turbo are you going to rev past the factory redline?

romanlynch · 01-10-2013, 07:01 PM

The red line currently is 6500 since the TD04 is out of breath ~5500, but yea I was planning around 7500-8k after I do that swap.

The crank and everything I can will be balanced, I've got an Adgency whatever crank pulley (1lb), an ACT lwfw (12lbs), and a driveshaft shop alum driveshaft. I don't know how much weight I lost with the ds but the crank and fw lost me ~20lbs.

mod maniac · 01-11-2013, 02:01 AM

I usually buy a stroker kit because it gives you room to push the motor for more hp. I also just use gray silcone and have had no problems. I run 75k for red line. I use stock case bolts and arp for everything else.

kakarot09 · 01-11-2013, 12:04 PM

many people do not like some of the factory clearances. I would not do factory ring gaps with the forged pistons. You can run around .014 top ring gap with those goals in mind. I would do .0015 for main bearings and .0017 for rods. Many people run different clearances or target clearances though. I've seen mains around .001 all the way to .002 and rods are around .002 from most builders.
I use permatex ultra gray.

romanlynch · 01-17-2013, 10:58 AM

This might be an odd question but here it is. I've read that the stock STi rods will handle the power and RPM that I'm looking for (300-350 @ 7-7.5k) but does anyone have the length of a new rod bolt handy so I can see if mine are streched at all? I'd like to reuse them but just want to make sure they're ok.

04ScoobyWtf · 01-17-2013, 11:01 AM

For added insurance I would add the arp rod bolts. At high Rpms the factory bolts like to stretch

romanlynch · 01-28-2013, 08:29 AM

Would ceramic coating ($55) be worth it on the main & rod bearings? This is 98% daily driver. I'm using the ACL Race series.

kakarot09 · 01-29-2013, 05:13 PM

I don't think so but that's just me. This is one of those things that gets debated though. Tons of people use the bearings with no coating.

romanlynch · 01-29-2013, 06:36 PM

Yea I know, I think I'm going to get it. I was talking with my teacher, who believes in this type of thing and it kind of makes sense to me. The coating lasts for a time and when it wears off I still have the normal bearing to use then.

kakarot09 · 01-29-2013, 07:31 PM

I understand it and for race teams I can see an advantage to doing the coatings on everything. But I've also pulled oem bearings from an Sti that looked perfectly fine at 70k miles. Most built engines on this forum never even make it to that anyway so I just see it as an unnecessary expense. If you have the money though hey why not.

romanlynch · 01-29-2013, 07:48 PM

I want my engine to do that

kakarot09 · 01-29-2013, 07:51 PM

Haha me too actually. I really see no reason mine shouldn't do 100k. We'll see I guess.

mopar3.0 · 01-29-2013, 09:30 PM

get the subaru gasket it comes with everthing including valve spring keepers and wrist pin retainers, exhaust gaskets and intercooler gaskets....

romanlynch · 01-29-2013, 11:20 PM

It comes with keepers too? Cool, it should be in tomorrow so I'll see what all it has. Freakin $315, I hope its more than a couple gaskets

romanlynch · 01-30-2013, 06:15 PM

Well it didn't come with keepers but it had valve seals. Ordered my pistons today, sucks they won't get here till next Friday though :/

wrx1392 · 01-31-2013, 03:24 AM

shoot for the factory specs on the mains and rods .if you have a used block cosworth make 3 different size of bearings ,i used the size 0 which has .001 " less oil clearance...with a used block it brought me in spec. i have a ton of oil pressure ,also using the 2005 stock wrx crank that is cross drilled. and sti 11mm oil pump.
i agree with the guy above ...use the oem gasket kit ...it has all the O-rings you need ,i bought a cometic gasket set and it had no o-rings .and the head gaskets were twice the thickness of the oem . i like the arp studs also i think it helps keep the head gaskets happy when under serious boost.

romanlynch · 02-07-2013, 10:38 AM

Made a little progress, cleaned up the casting on the crank, balanced the rods, re-ground the valves and figured out the bearing clearances. Going to freshen up the seats after break here shortly. I'm hoping to get my pistons Monday so I can finish hone and balance the crank and set ring end gaps. The plan is to have a short block by the end of next week, then all I have to do is port and polish the heads and get'er together.

Since I'm not sure how long it will be till I get the engine in the car, what should I coat everything with so it doesnt start to rust while it's in the garage?

01-09-2013, 10:23 PM	#1
romanlynch Scooby Specialist Member#: 126684 Join Date: Sep 2006 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Lima, OH Vehicle: 02 wrx PLATINUM silver baby	Getting ready for my build and have questions Im going to start building my 2.1 for my wrx and I had some basic questions. Ill be using Manley 92.5 stroker pistons, the stock TD04 but plan on an 18G or a 68HTA if I can find one later on. My questions are: Will factory case bolts, rod bolts and head bolts be ok or should I switch rod and head bolts to APR? Should I switch to head studs? Do I order the complete engine gasket kit from Subaru or is there an aftermarket option? Now to the important part, torque plate. Ive read the threads where 3MI and Maxwell (and others) say how important it is. Is this just used on the final honing part? And is there anyone that would lend me 1 plate, Id pay in full for it as long as I could get a refund minus the (your) shipping. PM me on that part. Is there anything special I need to know about any of the machining work? Im at a school with a complete machine shop, including a 4 axis CNC so I should be covered on equipment Just unsure on the process of boring and honing, like any special adapters needed? * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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01-09-2013, 11:10 PM	#2
wrx1392 Scooby Newbie Member#: 342331 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: tehachapi Ca. Vehicle: 2003 wrx blue	head bolts are not suppose to be reused ...the arp studs are very nice .i think you can reuse the block bolts as ARPs for that are very expensive.if you change the rod bolts you should have the big end resized.at least thats what i've always herd.

01-09-2013, 11:28 PM	#3
kakarot09 Scooby Specialist Member#: 182375 Join Date: Jun 2008 Chapter/Region: SWIC Location: Northern Nevada Vehicle: 08 Sti Wrbm	Both the block and head bolts can be reused. I like arp head studs for every build though. They aren't that expensive and I think they're a good idea. The rod bolts can also be reused, not a bad idea to replace them though. For your goals I would just do new oem rod bolts.

01-10-2013, 01:02 AM	#4
Flat 4 Motorsport NASIOC Vendor Member#: 295846 Join Date: Sep 2011 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Crook County, Illinois Vehicle: WRX FP HTA GT3076R Sexual Chocolate	You can reuse all these bolts: CASE RODS HEADS BUT,,,,,I would replace rods and head bolts. I usually tell my customers to replace those, replacing case bolts is big business! don't let anyone talk you into replacing case bolts unless you have unlimited money align hone is expensive! just do new bolts, @ $52 for all new bolts you cant beat that!

01-10-2013, 06:24 AM	#5
romanlynch Scooby Specialist Member#: 126684 Join Date: Sep 2006 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Lima, OH Vehicle: 02 wrx PLATINUM silver baby	I'm actually putting together a bare block do I'll need case bolts anyways. Line hones free since I have access to the equipment, but really hoping I don't have to

01-10-2013, 02:03 PM	#6
kakarot09 Scooby Specialist Member#: 182375 Join Date: Jun 2008 Chapter/Region: SWIC Location: Northern Nevada Vehicle: 08 Sti Wrbm	I should have mentioned some of this stuff earlier. I think the best option unless you have a bunch of money is new oem bolts for all of it. I still like arp head studs though. I trust them more. I notice no one mentioned the gasket kit yet. There is an aftermarket gasket kit but the oem kit is preferred. For the machining you need the torque plate for final honing. You should also use it to set the ring gaps. For special adapters etc I'm not sure since I don't do the machining myself. However I do know one shop local to me didn't have the right boring tool and sent me to another machine shop. The way the block is supported under the cylinders doesn't leave a lot of room so you need a boring adapter that can reach the bottom of the cylinder without hitting the block.

01-10-2013, 02:23 PM	#7
romanlynch Scooby Specialist Member#: 126684 Join Date: Sep 2006 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Lima, OH Vehicle: 02 wrx PLATINUM silver baby	Ok, the teacher said he's done suby's before so I guess we have the correct stuff. Should I use Fuji bond or the permatex equivalent? Do I use all factory specs for clearances, ie ring, bearing, piston? I've got a factory service manual.

01-10-2013, 02:57 PM	#8
ILikeBeans Scooby Newbie Member#: 173053 Join Date: Feb 2008 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: St Paul, MN Vehicle: 06 WRB WRX NF Performance!	I like Hondabond or Yamabond for my builds. I haven't used any of the equivalents though, and I doubt I ever will.

01-10-2013, 03:42 PM	#9
spackyscooby Scooby Newbie Member#: 169257 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Idaho Vehicle: 2000 impreza rs millenium jade	After you get a new turbo are you going to rev past the factory redline?

01-10-2013, 07:01 PM	#10
romanlynch Scooby Specialist Member#: 126684 Join Date: Sep 2006 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Lima, OH Vehicle: 02 wrx PLATINUM silver baby	The red line currently is 6500 since the TD04 is out of breath ~5500, but yea I was planning around 7500-8k after I do that swap. The crank and everything I can will be balanced, I've got an Adgency whatever crank pulley (1lb), an ACT lwfw (12lbs), and a driveshaft shop alum driveshaft. I don't know how much weight I lost with the ds but the crank and fw lost me ~20lbs.

01-11-2013, 02:01 AM	#11
mod maniac NASIOC Supporter Member#: 300551 Join Date: Nov 2011 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: mariposa ca. Vehicle: 2004 04 wrx sedan 04 forester xt	I usually buy a stroker kit because it gives you room to push the motor for more hp. I also just use gray silcone and have had no problems. I run 75k for red line. I use stock case bolts and arp for everything else.

01-11-2013, 12:04 PM	#12
kakarot09 Scooby Specialist Member#: 182375 Join Date: Jun 2008 Chapter/Region: SWIC Location: Northern Nevada Vehicle: 08 Sti Wrbm	many people do not like some of the factory clearances. I would not do factory ring gaps with the forged pistons. You can run around .014 top ring gap with those goals in mind. I would do .0015 for main bearings and .0017 for rods. Many people run different clearances or target clearances though. I've seen mains around .001 all the way to .002 and rods are around .002 from most builders. I use permatex ultra gray.

01-17-2013, 10:58 AM	#13
romanlynch Scooby Specialist Member#: 126684 Join Date: Sep 2006 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Lima, OH Vehicle: 02 wrx PLATINUM silver baby	This might be an odd question but here it is. I've read that the stock STi rods will handle the power and RPM that I'm looking for (300-350 @ 7-7.5k) but does anyone have the length of a new rod bolt handy so I can see if mine are streched at all? I'd like to reuse them but just want to make sure they're ok.

01-17-2013, 11:01 AM	#14
04ScoobyWtf Scooby Specialist Member#: 287974 Join Date: Jul 2011	For added insurance I would add the arp rod bolts. At high Rpms the factory bolts like to stretch

01-28-2013, 08:29 AM	#15
romanlynch Scooby Specialist Member#: 126684 Join Date: Sep 2006 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Lima, OH Vehicle: 02 wrx PLATINUM silver baby	Would ceramic coating ($55) be worth it on the main & rod bearings? This is 98% daily driver. I'm using the ACL Race series.

01-29-2013, 05:13 PM	#16
kakarot09 Scooby Specialist Member#: 182375 Join Date: Jun 2008 Chapter/Region: SWIC Location: Northern Nevada Vehicle: 08 Sti Wrbm	I don't think so but that's just me. This is one of those things that gets debated though. Tons of people use the bearings with no coating.

01-29-2013, 06:36 PM	#17
romanlynch Scooby Specialist Member#: 126684 Join Date: Sep 2006 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Lima, OH Vehicle: 02 wrx PLATINUM silver baby	Yea I know, I think I'm going to get it. I was talking with my teacher, who believes in this type of thing and it kind of makes sense to me. The coating lasts for a time and when it wears off I still have the normal bearing to use then.

01-29-2013, 07:31 PM	#18
kakarot09 Scooby Specialist Member#: 182375 Join Date: Jun 2008 Chapter/Region: SWIC Location: Northern Nevada Vehicle: 08 Sti Wrbm	I understand it and for race teams I can see an advantage to doing the coatings on everything. But I've also pulled oem bearings from an Sti that looked perfectly fine at 70k miles. Most built engines on this forum never even make it to that anyway so I just see it as an unnecessary expense. If you have the money though hey why not.

01-29-2013, 07:48 PM	#19
romanlynch Scooby Specialist Member#: 126684 Join Date: Sep 2006 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Lima, OH Vehicle: 02 wrx PLATINUM silver baby	I want my engine to do that

01-29-2013, 07:51 PM	#20
kakarot09 Scooby Specialist Member#: 182375 Join Date: Jun 2008 Chapter/Region: SWIC Location: Northern Nevada Vehicle: 08 Sti Wrbm	Haha me too actually. I really see no reason mine shouldn't do 100k. We'll see I guess.

01-29-2013, 09:30 PM	#21
mopar3.0 Scooby Newbie Member#: 261696 Join Date: Oct 2010 Chapter/Region: E. Canada Vehicle: 2004 wrx red	get the subaru gasket it comes with everthing including valve spring keepers and wrist pin retainers, exhaust gaskets and intercooler gaskets....

01-29-2013, 11:20 PM	#22
romanlynch Scooby Specialist Member#: 126684 Join Date: Sep 2006 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Lima, OH Vehicle: 02 wrx PLATINUM silver baby	It comes with keepers too? Cool, it should be in tomorrow so I'll see what all it has. Freakin $315, I hope its more than a couple gaskets

01-30-2013, 06:15 PM	#23
romanlynch Scooby Specialist Member#: 126684 Join Date: Sep 2006 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Lima, OH Vehicle: 02 wrx PLATINUM silver baby	Well it didn't come with keepers but it had valve seals. Ordered my pistons today, sucks they won't get here till next Friday though :/

01-31-2013, 03:24 AM	#24
wrx1392 Scooby Newbie Member#: 342331 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: tehachapi Ca. Vehicle: 2003 wrx blue	shoot for the factory specs on the mains and rods .if you have a used block cosworth make 3 different size of bearings ,i used the size 0 which has .001 " less oil clearance...with a used block it brought me in spec. i have a ton of oil pressure ,also using the 2005 stock wrx crank that is cross drilled. and sti 11mm oil pump. i agree with the guy above ...use the oem gasket kit ...it has all the O-rings you need ,i bought a cometic gasket set and it had no o-rings .and the head gaskets were twice the thickness of the oem . i like the arp studs also i think it helps keep the head gaskets happy when under serious boost.

02-07-2013, 10:38 AM	#25
romanlynch Scooby Specialist Member#: 126684 Join Date: Sep 2006 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Lima, OH Vehicle: 02 wrx PLATINUM silver baby	Made a little progress, cleaned up the casting on the crank, balanced the rods, re-ground the valves and figured out the bearing clearances. Going to freshen up the seats after break here shortly. I'm hoping to get my pistons Monday so I can finish hone and balance the crank and set ring end gaps. The plan is to have a short block by the end of next week, then all I have to do is port and polish the heads and get'er together. Since I'm not sure how long it will be till I get the engine in the car, what should I coat everything with so it doesnt start to rust while it's in the garage?