EMCO Gears for Subaru 5MT Dogbox/Syncro'd sets

[Unabomber]

Originally Posted by Flat 4 Motorsport

60ft or 60 seconds how's that?

how are you supposed to warranty someone shifting properly?


There will be no warranty on racing parts.

These gears can handle a 3000lb car at 700ft lbs of torque for 24 hrs @ Daytona I think that speaks for itself.

These are not from a run of the mill, fly by night operation, these are from EMCO Gears.

I'm just letting you know what the competition is offering, you are free to do what you like, but that is a factor to consider if you wish to compete. You would do well to search my username in the transmission forum....I think you'll find that I have researched transmissions in Subarus more than the average bird, so you should leverage that knowledge.

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[Flat 4 Motorsport]

Originally Posted by SoCal_Scooby

Updates? And how come it's a straight cut 1&2 and a helical cut 3&4? Why not a Straight cut 1-4?

Still waiting, I emailed them yesterday, they're in Daytona, FL for the Rolex 24 @ Daytona right now, he said he'll email me when they get back.

The reason for the spur gears(straight cut) for 1-2 is because it reduces case loading. Helical gears are actually stronger than spur gears (straight cut)

As of now we are going to go with a wider and thicker tooth profile for the 1-2 spur gears and the helical 3-5.

It may change as they figure the ratios, and do the engineering. The biggest thing I've expressed to them was addressing the issues with the 5MT case. They are going to design these gear sets to keep the torsional stresses low on the case itself while incorporating their proprietary alloys and treatments in a EMCO quality gear set.

They have the ability to test the case and I assure you guys, that if there is a doubt in their minds that the case will cause issues with gear shear, it will be addressed.

-Phil @ F4M

[Flat 4 Motorsport]

Originally Posted by Unabomber

I'm just letting you know what the competition is offering, you are free to do what you like, but that is a factor to consider if you wish to compete. You would do well to search my username in the transmission forum....I think you'll find that I have researched transmissions in Subarus more than the average bird, so you should leverage that knowledge.

I know what the competition is.

Top race teams like Dempsey racing, Turner Motorsports, Doranracing, Whelen Racing, ect.

The Nissan Delta Wing

rely on EMCO to get them across the finish line, and many of them do so with a podium finish.


Again, how do you warranty the end user, that he/she knows how to drive a dogbox? Or remembered to put gear oil in it??

The gears/shafts/bearings ect, go through a strict QC process

PPG doesn't offer a warranty on their gear sets and plenty of people buy those.

I just don't see how EMCO warrantying their gear sets is going to make or break someone purchasing them.

The only guarantee's that the above race teams got, was that they would cross the finish line and they did, and with podium finishes.

Remember chicken wings....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEB7WbTTlu4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEB7WbTTlu4

[SoCal_Scooby]

Um, is it hard to drive a dog box? I wouldn't want to screw it up

[Flat 4 Motorsport]

Originally Posted by SoCal_Scooby

Um, is it hard to drive a dog box? I wouldn't want to screw it up

These are definitely motorsport oriented gear sets, not something you would want to drive daily.

It's not hard to drive a dog box.

A dog box allows you to shift extremely fast without engaging the clutch allowing you to continually stay in your powerband. (Pre-load the shifter and bang through the gears ) as well as not getting lockout in higher RPM.

If you were to drive it on the street and not at WOT you would have to double clutch constantly to up shift, and blip the accelerator to downshift (rev match) otherwise you will wear out the "dogs" quickly. Kinda like grinding the sycros. Not fun to drive daily.

I used to drive a tractor trailer when I worked for DHL. Tractors do not have syncros and you "float" through the gears. Same thing, I would start in 2nd most of the time unless I was heavy and be in six gear (12 speed) in about 5 seconds.

[SoCal_Scooby]

Originally Posted by Flat 4 Motorsport

These are definitely motorsport oriented gear sets, not something you would want to drive daily.

It's not hard to drive a dog box.

A dog box allows you to shift extremely fast without engaging the clutch allowing you to continually stay in your powerband. (Pre-load the shifter and bang through the gears ) as well as not getting lockout in higher RPM.

If you were to drive it on the street and not at WOT you would have to double clutch constantly to up shift, and blip the accelerator to downshift (rev match) otherwise you will wear out the "dogs" quickly. Kinda like grinding the sycros. Not fun to drive daily.

I used to drive a tractor trailer when I worked for DHL. Tractors do not have syncros and you "float" through the gears. Same thing, I would start in 2nd most of the time unless I was heavy and be in six gear (12 speed) in about 5 seconds.

hmmm okay. I rev match downshift every time. double clutch upshift seems pretty ****ty especially in traffic with a heavy ass clutch.

[Flat 4 Motorsport]

Originally Posted by Flat 4 Motorsport

These are definitely motorsport oriented gear sets, not something you would want to drive daily.

Originally Posted by SoCal_Scooby

hmmm okay. I rev match downshift every time. double clutch upshift seems pretty ****ty especially in traffic with a heavy ass clutch.

I agree

[SoCal_Scooby]

Originally Posted by Flat 4 Motorsport

I agree

Any synchro gear sets coming? how much less power will they be able to hold?

[Flat 4 Motorsport]

Originally Posted by Flat 4 Motorsport

1500HP AWD Gears (I cannot divulge info unfortunately)

Originally Posted by SoCal_Scooby

Any synchro gear sets coming? how much less power will they be able to hold?

These pictures on post #40 are from a syncro's gear set for a 3400lb 1500WHP AWD car if you wanted a sycro'd gear set these would be the same materials you would get in a EMCO Subaru gear set.

The design would be a little different but the materials used, and processes EMCO utilizes for those gear sets, Daytona Prototype gear sets ect, would be applied to the Subaru stuff.

If there is enough demand for syncro'd sets it would be something I would bring to the table with them and go through the engineering process.

If you're seriously interested PM me and we'll talk.


-Phil @ F4M

[BlackFighter]

Are you guys planing on playing around with a 6spd dogbox with first few straight cut?

[Homemade WRX]

Phil, don't take Ron's (unabomber) as anything other than informative. If he gets out of line I'll just walk to his house and kick him in the shins

[Unabomber]

You can only reach my shin Micah!

As to the warranty issue, its pretty much moot if the first offering is a dogbox, but there is another manufacturer with a warranty that sells a synchro box and depending on price point it could be a cause of action if possible.

[Flat 4 Motorsport]

Originally Posted by BlackFighter

Are you guys planing on playing around with a 6spd dogbox with first few straight cut?

In due time, just to give you an idea a six speed dogbox is roughly 12K so food for thought.

These 5 speeds will be able to handle what you can throw at them, as long as you upgrade the diffs to aftermarket units, everything else will be included with the EMCO sets. No more Ala carte pricing for selector forks, transfer gears, ect. these will be a complete package deal.

Diffs from EMCO are going to be quoted but I can tell you right now they're going to be a lot of coin.

Quaife, A.P Suretrac, and a few others have been looked into and I will be able to offer gear set installs as well as a few of the other vendors that are EMCO Authorized dealers.

-Phil

[Flat 4 Motorsport]

Originally Posted by Homemade WRX

Phil, don't take Ron's (unabomber) as anything other than informative. If he gets out of line I'll just walk to his house and kick him in the shins

I know how Ron rolls

I know he means well.

Originally Posted by Unabomber

You can only reach my shin Micah!

As to the warranty issue, its pretty much moot if the first offering is a dogbox, but there is another manufacturer with a warranty that sells a synchro box and depending on price point it could be a cause of action if possible.

I assure the public purchasing EMCO products will be free from manufacturing defects. The FEW vendors that will be authorized to sell the product will be certified for installs to make sure the products quality control is held to the highest standards.

If a case arises where a failure is caused by the gears themselves, EMCO is LOCAL, not in Australia or Malaysia, or China, and I know they will stand behind their product 100%

The key here is the company is stateside.


As for the sycro'd sets, lets get a list of people who are interested in a sycro'd set. PM me and I'll make a list on here. I'll talk to the guys at EMCO and see if we can come up with an agreement everyone is happy with.

The magic number is 20 for sycro'd sets.


can we hug now Ron?

-Phil @ F4M

[wolfmanRX]

not too far from bartlett

[Unabomber]

I'm here so the hug is assumed. My problem is many times my typing comes across as obtuse and after my last episode of pissing off a vendor, I'm trying to be better. Trying is the key word. My running total is 40% hate me, 40% love me and 20% potato. What helps ya'll is that you guys are friendly with one of my friends and generally that means you are OK. Micah will tell you that I'm never TRUE friends until I get free parts though, which is why he and I aren't true friends yet!

[3MI Racing]

Originally Posted by Unabomber

You can only reach my shin Micah!

Ron, just remember that you are much easier to throw than a caber and my garage is very close to your house

[Flat 4 Motorsport]

Reserved for Syncro'd set potential buyers.



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[Flat 4 Motorsport]

Moved dogbox thread

[shadowpr]

put me down for syncro set

[Unabomber]

Put me down for a free dogbox when they come out. How's that for being friendly? Micah is now proud of me as I'm trying to scam someone else.

[Flat 4 Motorsport]

Originally Posted by Unabomber

Put me down for a free dogbox when they come out. How's that for being friendly? Micah is now proud of me as I'm trying to scam someone else.

Added

[Homemade WRX]

Originally Posted by Unabomber

Put me down for a free dogbox when they come out. How's that for being friendly? Micah is now proud of me as I'm trying to scam someone else.

truth!!

[Unabomber]

Originally Posted by Flat 4 Motorsport

They felt that the issue with the 5MT case being weak was due to the actual gear design and not the case itself.

Talked to Andrew of Andrewtech Automotive today and he wanted me to say +1 to this comment. He and I have been the minority on this for years, so finally someone else has seen the forest from the trees.

Andrew said he'd install my free set for free. Free parts and free labor, and I'll scam gas money for the 4 hour trip from Micah. I heart being me!

[Flat 4 Motorsport]

Originally Posted by Unabomber

Talked to Andrew of Andrewtech Automotive today and he wanted me to say +1 to this comment. He and I have been the minority on this for years, so finally someone else has seen the forest from the trees.

Andrew said he'd install my free set for free. Free parts and free labor, and I'll scam gas money for the 4 hour trip from Micah. I heart being me!

Sweet, sell 6 sets whether they be dogboxes or syncro'd sets and ill give you a free one serially

Im going to give Andrew a call next week and chat with him.

By doing a spur gear for the first two gears those will take the brunt torsional forces and keep the load forces axial within the shaft. Then switching to helical gears 3-5(stronger than a straight cut or spur gear) for all the loading during racing, combined with the weight savings from the five speed. Should make for a gear box that will address ALL the weak points and improve the overall performance within the 5MT Subaru drivetrain.

Keep in mind that we will be increasing the input and output shaft diameters and decreasing runout. Therefore the experience of "twist/flex" between gearing should be nill to none.

The Subaru Gears provided by EMCO will have the same services/procedures/materials/treatments, that any other gear albeit a DP, SCCA, Dempsey Racing, NASCAR, IRL, ECT, gear would get. I know, I keep reiterating myself but I can't stress enough that this is BIG TIME!!

Get the word out and lets get these out there!

Look for these at the 2013 SEMA/Subiefest event. Im in the process of doing a cutout on a 5MT case to showcase the gear set with some "XXXX" Diffs!


The biggest thing going to be, is playing with the ratios. added strength and kick ass powerband coupled with a lightweight bulletproof gearbox.....