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Old 01-25-2013, 01:14 PM   #26
Cobb Tuning
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My A/F Learning has been getting worse over time and it had been at 6 before. I have posted logs of this occurring in my other thread.
A/F Learning (each A,B,C,D value) can and does move around over time. This happens even on a car with zero fueling issues, so it doesn't mean anything. If your A/F Learning gets worse over time and goes WELL beyond +/- 5%, then you might have an issue. If you are saying that it hit 6% once and then dropped back down, that is just a borderline that may be nothing. If it hits +/- 8% or worse, that is more telling of a fueling issue.

Certainly, -12 feedback correction is unusual, but I don't recall seeing that in your logs in the other post (IIRC -6 was the worse and it was at low load). That is a bit unusual, but was curious if you caught the -12 extreme values in the log and if they were also at low load.

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Old 01-25-2013, 04:27 PM   #27
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Ahh okay ill take a look threw my logs and see if I can find it. Thank you
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:19 PM   #28
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I couldn't find the correct log, but I did drive on the high way 70mph yesterday and I got a -12 FBKC ANSI checked my A/F Learning values right after the knock event and A/F learning C went from 5.5 to 6.3 and know my learning c value c is at 6.3 always. My new intercooler to throttle body coupler will come in on Tuesday and is install that and see if it corrects the problem. Thank you
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:51 AM   #29
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I couldn't find the correct log, but I did drive on the high way 70mph yesterday and I got a -12 FBKC ANSI checked my A/F Learning values right after the knock event and A/F learning C went from 5.5 to 6.3 and know my learning c value c is at 6.3 always. My new intercooler to throttle body coupler will come in on Tuesday and is install that and see if it corrects the problem. Thank you
Try to get a log of the -12 correction - it is important to look at when it is occurring. That is a very extreme correction and a borderline fuel trim at 6% doesn't really explain that.

Bill
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:54 PM   #30
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I understand what your saying Bill. I'll try to log the -12 fbkc. Right now my A/F Learning 1 has increased over 6% and A/F Learning C has increased to 6.6%. So every time i drive my car it seems to get worse. my throttle to intercooler coupler should be coming tomorrow and i really hope that thats what the problem is.

Thank you guys
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:43 PM   #31
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https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5Kq...h4cURwS0E/edit

This is a new log i just took tonight and it has a lot of fbkc also my a/f learning 1 has increased to 7% under any acceleration and a/f learning C has increased to 6.8%.
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:46 PM   #32
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...kNVcTg5cUtJZEE

I'm sorry this is the correct link.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:04 PM   #33
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veel86, you definitely want to fix the TB to IC leak before you do any more driving.
just my 2 cents
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:11 PM   #34
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Yeah I agree with you. I just hope that is the problem. I will be putting it in tomorrow afternoon.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:04 AM   #35
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...kNVcTg5cUtJZEE

I'm sorry this is the correct link.
Those corrections look like noise - not actual knock. It is at very low load (where the knock detection system is not very good a distinguishing noise from combustion knock) and at steady throttle. You are actually hitting the most extreme correction of feedback knock that is allowed. So, it must be something making quite a racket. Your A/F Learning 1 may possibly indicate a borderline fueling issue of some sort, but I don't think that explains the extreme low load correction.

It has to be something that is making noise that is attached to motor or tranny that the knock sensor can pick up. Either that, or you may have internal engine damage, such as a damaged ringland. You can rule in/out that by getting a compression and leak-down test done.

Bill
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:47 PM   #36
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alright i just put in the new throttle coupler that old one has a cut in it about 2 inches long. But i really hope its not my ringlands. I don't beat on my car i've been to the track once but that was long before this issue and it was when the car was stock. Ill do a compression test just to be sure. What other symptoms would a damaged ringland cause?

Thank you
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:51 PM   #37
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alright i just put in the new throttle coupler that old one has a cut in it about 2 inches long. But i really hope its not my ringlands. I don't beat on my car i've been to the track once but that was long before this issue and it was when the car was stock. Ill do a compression test just to be sure. What other symptoms would a damaged ringland cause?

Thank you
Remove your oil filler cap with engine idling. Smoke coming out would be no bueno. Smoke coming out of exhaust on start up after sitting for a time is another symptom.

Compression and leak down test is the sure way to know even if the other symptoms are not present.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:57 PM   #38
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Alright ill take off my oil filler cap right now
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:59 PM   #39
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No smoke coming out of the oil filler cap and no smoke coming out of the exhaust.
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:34 PM   #40
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I'd definitely be looking around for loose bolts or brackets especially the bracket where your heat shield was attached to the motor (see picture of bracket here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...97&postcount=1 ) you will see the bracket in this photo too: http://www.i-club.com/forums/bay-are...8/#post3184636 in post #4. I think the brown connector leads to knock sensor under throttle body. Will this require removing intercooler? Probably so but I'd recommend that you cut to the chase and eliminate any possibilities of a loose bolt/ bracket nearby the knock sensor. You will also get to make certain your hoses are in good shape and all of the hose clamps are tight when you reinstall them. Hey its only about spending time right now and not dinero...yet.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:27 PM   #41
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Thank you very much ^ I will check over everything this week. I haven't checked over the heat shields on the header and what not and I will look over all of my hoses if I find anything I will post the photos on here to see what you guys think. And thank you very much for everyone's help and inputs on everything I greatly appreciate it!
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:51 PM   #42
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well I've got my fingers crossed for you hoping it's something really simple (like a loose bolt or bracket rattling around).....but the only way to definitively rule out a cracked or broken ringland is to have a compression and leak down test done. tracking things down is a process of elimination. Think of how much you get to learn about your car though...ha ha...I got this love/hate thing going with mine
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:23 PM   #43
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Thanks a lot man and I know what you mean haha. I've learned a lot about my car from the problems I've had with it. Love/hate would be the best way to describe it. But also I don't think it's my ring lands I never launched with LC, or beat the crap out of the car so I really hope it's not but ill do a compression test as soon as I can if I don't find anything else that could possibly cause the problem.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:29 PM   #44
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Is it a good idea to reset my Ecu at this point as well?

Last edited by veel86; 01-30-2013 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:51 PM   #45
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I would. Then if you think you got all of the leaks eliminated do some driving around staying out of boost for about an hour then check your AF Learning to see what your fuel trims are looking like.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:19 PM   #46
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Alright I will do. And does oil coming out of the intercooler have any effect on what's happening?
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:28 PM   #47
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A thin film of oil or a small amount is normal.

forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2458043
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:31 PM   #48
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Ah okay thank you. I have the intercooler off right now looking for broken brackets or loose bolts r anything that doesn't look right. Thank you
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:52 PM   #49
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So as of right now I haven't had any severe knock events. My a/f learning 1 is at 7% under throttle, and a/f learning C is stuck at 7.3% and a/f learning B is mostly at -4.9% to -5.5% does anyone have any idea what cause them to slowly increase. I haven't found any leaks in the intake track.

Thank you
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:25 PM   #50
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If its not knocking don't sweat it. AF Learning will change over time to accommodate fuel, atmospheric conditions etc. Just keep an eye on it and over time it might settle in on a little lower range. You said that you did not find any leaks...may I presume that was done with a leak test?
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