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Old 01-26-2013, 02:48 PM   #1
vicious_fishes
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Default at what point is it a waste of time to add more heat wrap?

2 layers, 3, 4?

at the moment i've wrapped each pipe individually (EL headers) and then wrapped the whole lot as one with an extra layer.


worth bothering with any more?
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Old 01-26-2013, 04:18 PM   #2
soldmyboxster
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The question I would ask is, "Why are you wrapping it?" Are you trying to keep heat in the pipes (to feed a turbo), or trying to keep it from heating up something else near the pipes?

Back in the day I wrapped my stainless steel header pipes just once and could briefly touch the pipe without getting burned. 'Twas sufficient.
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:00 PM   #3
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right now
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:02 PM   #4
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I have always gone with 1/2 overlap using 2 inch wide heat wrap. This gives a double layer of wrap which IMO is plenty. Any more I think is just extra weight. The copper and the titanium wraps are very effective.

My goals are twofold, on the turbo, header, and uppipe it's more to keep the heat in the pipe and out of the engine compartment, on the DP it was only to keep the heat out of the engine compartment.
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:28 AM   #5
vicious_fishes
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i should clarify guys, i'm trying to reduce underhood temperatures.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:20 AM   #6
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Every layer of insulation you add helps to slow the rate of heat transfer but its not a linear relationship to the number of layers you add. There is a point of diminishing returns of what the wrap can do. If you put 80 layers on your header I'm sure you could put your bare balls on your headers after a run but is all that really necessary.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:23 AM   #7
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I think you are asking a really intriguing question! I'd like to know the answer!
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:45 AM   #8
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Also, make damn sure that and slip joints, etc. Are secured very well. Header wrap will hold heat into the stainless piping, making it maliable and bendable.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:49 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post
Every layer of insulation you add helps to slow the rate of heat transfer but its not a linear relationship to the number of layers you add. There is a point of diminishing returns of what the wrap can do. If you put 80 layers on your header I'm sure you could put your bare balls on your headers after a run but is all that really necessary.
hence me asking the question... at the moment, with what i think is 2 layers, i can put my hand on the pipe for a few seconds before needing to let go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skimobile View Post
Also, make damn sure that and slip joints, etc. Are secured very well. Header wrap will hold heat into the stainless piping, making it maliable and bendable.
slip joints?

can you elaborate for me mate?
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicious_fishes View Post
hence me asking the question... at the moment, with what i think is 2 layers, i can put my hand on the pipe for a few seconds before needing to let go.
So how much more do you want? That's a question for you to answer not us.
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:12 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post
So how much more do you want? That's a question for you to answer not us.
no it isn't? i don't know how much more i want. hence the thread.
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:33 PM   #12
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I see cracked headers and plenty other cracks in ur future.
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicious_fishes View Post
no it isn't? i don't know how much more i want. hence the thread.
Not to be an ass but if you don't know what you want how are we to know what you want. If all your looking for is someone to tell you two wraps is fine then two wraps are fine. Its better than no wraps and less effective than infinite wraps. That is the honest to god best info you will probably find on the subject.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicious_fishes View Post
hence me asking the question... at the moment, with what i think is 2 layers, i can put my hand on the pipe for a few seconds before needing to let go.



slip joints?

can you elaborate for me mate?
Sorry for the crapy cell phone response earlier.. Many headers have slip joints (where one section of the header pipe slides inside another). Usually the slip joint is contained with a bracket, wire, etc.. Wrapping your headers retains more heat in the header's stainless steel piping. The pipes can get so red hot inside the wrap that the pipe gets soft (while hot) and can easily bend, separate at the seams etc. It happened to me at Pocono long course. A heat-wrapped pipe caused the Perrin header to get so hot that it separated, pulled apart and blew hot exhaust gas all over the radiator, hose, wiring, etc., and even turned the header wrap into glass.. I'll see if I can dig up some shots for reference....

You can see the slip joint on the right (driver's side) in the pic of the header on Perrin Performance's website...
http://www.perrinperformance.com/sub...r-equal-length







Last edited by skimobile; 02-02-2013 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:30 PM   #15
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keep wrapping until you run out of money
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skimobile View Post

Sorry for the crapy cell phone response earlier.. Many headers have slip joints (where one section of the header pipe slides inside another). Usually the slip joint is contained with a bracket, wire, etc.. Wrapping your headers retains more heat in the header's stainless steel piping. The pipes can get so red hot inside the wrap that the pipe gets soft (while hot) and can easily bend, separate at the seams etc. It happened to me at Pocono long course. A heat-wrapped pipe caused the Perrin header to get so hot that it separated, pulled apart and blew hot exhaust gas all over the radiator, hose, wiring, etc., and even turned the header wrap into glass.. I'll see if I can dig up some shots for reference....

You can see the slip joint on the right (driver's side) in the pic of the header on Perrin Performance's website...
http://www.perrinperformance.com/sub...r-equal-length
Inconel, problem solved.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:10 PM   #17
vicious_fishes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post
Not to be an ass but if you don't know what you want how are we to know what you want. If all your looking for is someone to tell you two wraps is fine then two wraps are fine. Its better than no wraps and less effective than infinite wraps. That is the honest to god best info you will probably find on the subject.
sigh. see if someone asked me the question i've asked, i'd be all "well the heat radiated after XYZ layers isn't worth bothering with. any more than ABC is a waste of time." etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skimobile View Post
Sorry for the crapy cell phone response earlier.. Many headers have slip joints (where one section of the header pipe slides inside another). Usually the slip joint is contained with a bracket, wire, etc.. Wrapping your headers retains more heat in the header's stainless steel piping. The pipes can get so red hot inside the wrap that the pipe gets soft (while hot) and can easily bend, separate at the seams etc. It happened to me at Pocono long course. A heat-wrapped pipe caused the Perrin header to get so hot that it separated, pulled apart and blew hot exhaust gas all over the radiator, hose, wiring, etc., and even turned the header wrap into glass.. I'll see if I can dig up some shots for reference....

You can see the slip joint on the right (driver's side) in the pic of the header on Perrin Performance's website...
http://www.perrinperformance.com/sub...r-equal-length

aha. i see!

single piece headers so not an issue.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:38 PM   #18
white guys wrx
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1 1/2in wrap will do well, just make sure you wrap it all the way and as tight as you can. You can touch my headers for a second or so without getting burned. I've also noticed that the wrap has reduced engine bay heat drastically ..

You can pick up 50ft of 1 1/2in heat wrap on ebay for $50 in black or white-


On another note, You can pick up aluminum radiator fans/housings fairly cheap on ebay that might do you some good if you want to swap out the burnt/melted plastic fans your running...

Last edited by white guys wrx; 02-02-2013 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:53 AM   #19
skimobile
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I believe the DEI (wrap manufacturer) recommends to wrap in overlapping layers with 1/4" overlap on the wrap.
http://www.designengineering.com/downloads/installs
White Guys WRX, thanks ...I've already switched to Invidia 1 piece header and up-pipe combo and Mishimoto aluminum radiator shroud/fan.
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skimobile View Post
I believe the DEI (wrap manufacturer) recommends to wrap in overlapping layers with 1/4" overlap on the wrap.
http://www.designengineering.com/downloads/installs
White Guys WRX, thanks ...I've already switched to Invidia 1 piece header and up-pipe combo and Mishimoto aluminum radiator shroud/fan.

Yes, 1/4th is correct. It is very hard to measure out how much you are wrapping however when doing this, so I said wrap it tight.
I think the invidia 1 piece will work out a lot better for you.
Be sure to check around your oil cooler also to make sure nothing is melted...

ALSO, I would for sure send an email to the manufacture of the header that melted your parts to see if there is any type of reimbursement. That sure does sound and look like manufacture defect
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:20 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjrutzky View Post
keep wrapping until you run out of money
LOL LOL LOL best answer i have ever heard in a while
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Old 08-24-2013, 12:48 AM   #22
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Has anyone recorded intake temperatures before and after wrapping?
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:15 AM   #23
vicious_fishes
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INTAKE temperatures? no.

underhood temps, perhaps...
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Old 08-24-2013, 10:30 AM   #24
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I've never wrapped my headers or bagged my turbo, however, I'm a strong believer in coatings. Calico has coated several turbo manifolds, DP's, and turbine housing or me in the past. I usually go with their 1600F coating.

And in all honesty, $ for $ it's the exact same cost as wrapping.

As for results, engine bay temps have been dropped significantly. I've never taken an exact measuring, as I'm usually measuring EGT's on the inside of the tube not outside.
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Old 08-24-2013, 01:34 PM   #25
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A barrier is better than coating. When I was playing at Volvo Powertrain I tested some stuff from Thermal Structures. It was awesome. I currently have a sheet of it protecting power steering lines from my uppipe/ewg/downpipe.

DIY version: wrap and put some loose, stainless foil to be a barrier. Loose to jeep the air gap which will aid in keeping the heat transfer down.
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