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Old 02-02-2013, 09:16 PM   #51
veel86
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I haven't done my own test yet. I should have said the dealership. I just haven't had time to do it my self yet. But I also just red lashed to the stage 2 91 oct. map just to see if it made any difference.
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:09 PM   #52
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What can cause a/f learning values to increase if there is no intake track leak?

Thank you
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:33 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veel86 View Post
What can cause a/f learning values to increase if there is no intake track leak?

Thank you
Just some extra reading for you:

http://www.wrxforums.com/forums/57-t...tml#post105095


If you are really ambitious read this too:

https://sites.google.com/site/asubie...gguide/ver-1-0
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:44 PM   #54
veel86
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Thank you very much i will need more time to read through the tuning guide. But i couldn't find anything that says what would effect the a/f learning value for a/r learning 1 and C.
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:53 PM   #55
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I know you are using the AP but the principle is the same in monitoring using romraider and learningview. This link explains what AF learning involves and describes the different airflow ranges A,B,C,D hope it helps:

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...hp?f=33&t=4899
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:04 AM   #56
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Ill take a look thank you!
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:38 AM   #57
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So what I got out of that is that a/f learning 1 is moving around with acceleration, and a/f learning C is under constant driving at low load which is where I'm having my problems. I wasn't able to find out what effects the those values. Is it most commonly a vacuum leak? What other things can possibly cause my Ecu to be adding fuel in a/f learning 1 and C at to high of a range? Sense I reflashed the 91 oct stage 2 map I've gotten -6 FBKC at the worst but I am still unsure if its false knock or not. It's been about 10F where I love so I haven't wanted to get under my car and check out the heat shields on the headers and up pipe but I just gotta man up and do it. Also like I expected the fuel trims (long term) has shot back up to almost 7 at 1 & C.

Thank you
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:09 AM   #58
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Are you running a stock airbox or an aftermarket intake?
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:54 PM   #59
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Cobb sf intake which my tune says I can have either stock or Cobb af intake.
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:43 PM   #60
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I don't know what this means but my a/f learning 1 &C have been moving up and down between 3.8 and in the 6 range. Any idea why? The dealership said they cleaned my maf sensor because it was heavily coated before. I had it at the dealer about a month ago.
Thank you
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:48 PM   #61
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I know they move over time...it just seems unusual that they are moving around so much over a short period of time.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:31 AM   #62
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Quote:
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I know they move over time...it just seems unusual that they are moving around so much over a short period of time.
Temperature and relative humidity have a lot to do with it. Cold air is denser than warm air. 1 cubic ft of 10 degree F air is 8% denser than the same volume of air at 50 degree F (40% RH and 1,000 feet above sea level). In short your ecu is making adjustments to compensate for changes in RH and temperature. In a MAF hot wire system AF learning is necessary to make our car runs optimum (maintain fueling targets) and safe. As I stated in previous posts make sure to leak test your intake tract to eliminate any error that leaks could cause first before you get too wrapped around the axle on AF learning values. BTW if you want to play with air density calculations here's a handy tool: http://www.denysschen.com/catalogue/density.aspx
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:52 AM   #63
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Oh okay that makes sense. Thank you!
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:22 PM   #64
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i've logged a/f learning 1 values of -14 while cruising. they return to zero when doing a pull but are -12 to -14 while cruising. No fbkc and DAM is at 1. mechanically the car is stock but I'm the second owner so might not have always been. Running the stage 1 91 octane OTS map. I'm in alaska with 90 octane if it matters. What should I look at first? Should I be worried?
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:20 PM   #65
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Sounds like your car is running rich in CL...which might not be such a bad thing on 90 octane as long as it doesn't try to keep pulling fuel when you go into OL. Can you log A,B,C,D airflow ranges for AF Learning? D would be the one to really watch as it gets carried over when you go into boost. How cold is it up there? I doubt anyone has an OTS for Alaska that doesnt need to be tweaked for the cold weather. If I were you I'd hit up Eric Minehart at Torqued Performance and buy one of his Stage 1 maps for
$85.00 (thats if he has one for 90 octane). He can get you dialed in within a few logs. I just looked at your weather...15 F....brrrr. Make sure your car is not overboosting with the cold weather.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:44 PM   #66
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No I wasn't overboosting and it was intake temps of 24 on the log i'm looking at. as soon as I start a pull from 2000rpm to redline it starts decreasing. started at a steady -12.5, by 2600rpm at -5, and 0 at 3700rpm. Thats on a HWG map and I'm peaking at 16psi at 3000rpm tapering to 13.5 at readline. the standard stage 1 map was similar but peaked just under 14psi tapering to about 12psi with intake temps of ~50 degress. As long as I'm not getting knock or doing some other damage I'm not terribly concerned, and I do intend to get an ETune soon but it will be in a month or 2 after my car is back in Texas and drinkin that 93 octane again

I will try to get out and do a log this weekend perhaps just for the hell of it depending on the roads though, and I'll report back with that.

oh and I have a catless downpipe and muffler deletes from Nameless on the way so I will be going Stage 2 in a week or 2.

Last edited by silverbullet830; 02-19-2013 at 11:11 PM.
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:24 AM   #67
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oh and I have a catless downpipe and muffler deletes from Nameless on the way so I will be going Stage 2 in a week or 2.
Let the fun begin !
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:40 AM   #68
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i've logged a/f learning 1 values of -14 while cruising. they return to zero when doing a pull but are -12 to -14 while cruising. No fbkc and DAM is at 1. mechanically the car is stock but I'm the second owner so might not have always been. Running the stage 1 91 octane OTS map. I'm in alaska with 90 octane if it matters. What should I look at first? Should I be worried?
A/F Learning 1 of -12% and -14% are quite extreme. Go to the Accessport's Monitor menu and go to "Live Data" and read back what each of the A/F Learning 1 A,B,C,D values show. You can do this with the engine idling (or key on engine off).

Can you verify that you are, in fact, running the stock intake? If so, the first thing to do is to make sure you are running the correct map. For the 2010 WRX, there are 3 different intakes maps -> stock intake, Cobb SF intake (+SF in map name), and AEM intake (+AEM in the map name). If you are running the stock intake, it is crucial that you are not running the +SF or +AEM.

If you are not running a supported intake for the map, this can certainly cause load errors, which causes problems with fueling and timing.

If you rule out all of the above, it could be a mechanical issue. No environmental factors will mean that -12% or -14% is normal. So, it could be an issue with a bad front o2 sensor, post-MAF intake tract leaks or any other fueling-related mechanical problem.

Bill
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:56 AM   #69
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I've only looked at Learning 1 itself and it was deep in the negatives every time at crusing. I can't check anything until this weekend most likely. I'm sure that I'm running the factory intake and a factory intake map as well. No +sf or +aem in the description. Any way I can test the o2 sensor? do negative values indicate the car pulling fuel or adding? If its running rich while cruising and under vacuum would this be indicative of a post-MAF intake leak or rule it out?


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Let the fun begin !
Hell yeah! haha, I can't wait.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:39 AM   #70
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I've only looked at Learning 1 itself and it was deep in the negatives every time at crusing. I can't check anything until this weekend most likely. I'm sure that I'm running the factory intake and a factory intake map as well. No +sf or +aem in the description. Any way I can test the o2 sensor? do negative values indicate the car pulling fuel or adding? If its running rich while cruising and under vacuum would this be indicative of a post-MAF intake leak or rule it out?
Negative values indicate the ECU is perceiving a rich condition and is reducing fuel to compensate. I would first read each of the A,B,C,D values as what each value shows (and which ranges have the extreme values) can sometimes give you more information about what to check.

Bill
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:34 PM   #71
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I checked the A/F Learning 1,A,B,C, and D. at Idle a minute or 2 after a cold start it was reading -8.6,-9,-8.5,-13.3,-0.4 respectively.
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:41 AM   #72
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I checked the A/F Learning 1,A,B,C, and D. at Idle a minute or 2 after a cold start it was reading -8.6,-9,-8.5,-13.3,-0.4 respectively.
I would get a pressure or smoke test of the intake tract done. You may have a boost leak that is fairly severe. If you fix any leaks, reset the ECU (via troubleshooting menu on Accessport) and then drive through a tank of gas or so and check A/F Learning 1 A,B,C,D.

On 90 octane gas, you should be on our most conservative map (91ACN). That doesn't have anything to do with your fueling issue, but something that you should change.

Bill
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Old 02-21-2013, 02:45 PM   #73
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There is an auto hobby shop on post i have access to with every tool you can think of pretty much. I will go this weekend and try to do a vacuum test. I would think that a post maf leak would run lean under vacuum not rich, but I can see where that would be the first thing to rule out so that's where i'll start. Thanks.

I will also switch to the ACN map just to play it safe even though I'm not seeing any knock.
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Old 02-21-2013, 03:17 PM   #74
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A vacuum leak runs lean. A boost leak runs rich. Think about it some more. A vacuum leak(letting in un-metered air) vs a boost leak (letting metered air out before it reaches the cylinder bore).
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Old 02-21-2013, 04:24 PM   #75
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Thats exactly what I'm thinking. So what could cause a rich condition under cruising? Its pulling fuel but only when I'm not under boost. Once I go wot it returns to after a couple seconds.
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